Previous Offense and Recruiting

[Madison Grant]

No one said that the Jimmy's and Joe's don't matter.

Actually, that's exactly what you said when you said all his offense takes is enough practice time to be unstoppable. Even in 2014, Duke stopped it . . . because the top Jimmy and Joe was playing injured. And you were accusing someone else of saying stupid things.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Today, all the service academies run versions of that offense though. And the post I replied to specifically mentioned Jeff Monken, a PJ disciple, who is also currently running a service-academy offense. Ergo, it's a service academy offense. That label isn't meant to offend nor trigger but those schools are the only ones running it so the label is accurate, PJ Fan Club protestations aside.

With unlimited practice time and the right personnel (of which no team in America has), all offenses are unstoppable. People need to get a clue before replying and revealing their bias: The belief that our previous scheme was somehow better than every other offense in America is laughable and extremely stupid. With unlimited practice time and the right players, all Defenses could be coached to shut it - or any other offense down. A few were already doing a bang-up job of it with Duke-limited personnel.

It was not a HS offense either, contrary to idiot Mark Richt's assertion to the contrary. Regardless, it will never return to the Flats, for reasons that should be obvious to any fan paying attention to how the previous regime ended. Fans of it need to appreciate what it did for us and let it go - it's not coming back.

Let's take this in order,

Regardless of what initiated the comment, calling the spread offense CPJ developed a service academy offense is pejorative and, to me, disrespectful. I think his genius comes from being able to manipulate the blocking schemes to take advantage of numbers and misdirection. Not every offense does that. So, with unlimited time, not every offense is unstoppable.

That being said, I am not a CPJ spread option fanatic. I think it ran its course and was time to make a change. I think the complexity, combined with the negative recruiting, was too much for sustained success at this level. I think GT was going to be on a 3-4 year cycle as long as we were running that system. I'm not a staunch CPJ supporter or detractor. I just don't like to see smart people make stupid comments. I don't like it when I say stupid things either.

It's possible we could see a version of this at Tech again, but it'll be 1/2 to a whole generation from now. But, for now, we're going with the zone-read option that's being installed now. I'm okay with that too. I'm very happy with what I've seen so far. I'm excited to see what this group of coaches can get done.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I see your hedge about "no HS ran that offense" but at least two HS in Atlanta (one a perennial powerhouse who sends us SA's regularly and one who has had irregular success and sends us a few SA's also) run dam close versions of it. And again, I saw your hedge. It's called a HS offense because back when it was relatively new to us, it was run in HS's...in Ga. One of these HC told me personally nine years ago that he runs for the reason that others here give for it. But it was the "hedged" version...but close enough to ruffle feathers.

You really should take your own advice....LIG.

You may have the last word.

I didn't hedge anything. There are high schools that run the spread option out of that formation, but they run a very small portion of the playbook CPJ ran. HS has even less time to teach the players than college. It's not the flashy stuff that's so complicated, it's the foundation stuff on the line that makes all the difference in the world. There is no HS that runs CPJ's offense with the myriad of OL blocking schemes that GT used every game. That's the point I was making. There's nothing stupid about that comment.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Actually, that's exactly what you said when you said all his offense takes is enough practice time to be unstoppable. Even in 2014, Duke stopped it . . . because the top Jimmy and Joe was playing injured. And you were accusing someone else of saying stupid things.

What I said is that with unlimited practice, his offense would be unstoppable. The implication being that he would have time to drill the run-and-shoot aspects of the offense in addition to the ground-based running attack. We never did that. The way our offense was stopped was to load the box with 8 or 9 and dare us to pass. When we got stopped, it was because we weren't good enough to pass. Had we been able to mix in the RnS, the defenses would always be off-balance. That's the point I was making. Never mentioned anything about Jimmys and Joes. That was your inference.

 

[iceeater1969]

What I said is that with unlimited practice, his offense would be unstoppable. The implication being that he would have time to drill the run-and-shoot aspects of the offense in addition to the ground-based running attack. We never did that. The way our offense was stopped was to load the box with 8 or 9 and dare us to pass. When we got stopped, it was because we weren't good enough to pass. Had we been able to mix in the RnS, the defenses would always be off-balance. That's the point I was making. Never mentioned anything about Jimmys and Joes. That was your inference.

This is a very good post.
As an old guy that grad tech 69 and moved to Texas / oklahoma and- I saw u of H version , U T wishbone, OU , and Nebraska. They had the horses and it was beautiful.

As the rules were
-liberalized for OL holding while pass blocking,.
- receivers got taller and more athletic - defensive ticy tacky holding was irrelevant,
- tighten to make touching the qb illegal,
EVERYONE went to a passing offense.


While they seldom saw us, the new computer based scouting and game planning allowed top teams to camlouage thier front 7 alignment.

I loved the scheme and believe if LJ was healthy last year, coach would have played him and ......
Oh well, I am happy we have buzz headed to bds.

 

[Southpawmac]

So bringing this back to a discussion. My only concern is what has been Tech's issue for as many years as I have been going to games....since 1969. Defense. CPJ realized this and his offense was the way to control it. When the other teams only had 10 possessions we could limit the scores. Now when we play inferior competition we can play some defense but let's be frank here for this season. Clemson and Georgia have some very high power offense. They will probably score on 50% of their possessions against us. If we give them 18 possessions....well we will need to score 72 points to win.

First I hope we don't get crushed by Clemson in game 1 because that could seriously impact a team being driven by hype. Maybe Collins will figure out a way to get the defense better. But I expect the offense to struggle in many games. So that being said I see us flat out losing to Georgia and Clemson. UVA will be better than us and at UVA. Loss. NC State may be another loss. As I said earlier, Tech has always done better when we were a run first team. Let's hope we stay that way.

We gave up 49 points on 12 possessions to Clemson last year with an option offense. Duke gave up 35 on 14 possessions without an option offense. Personally, I’ll take our chances with a group of coaches that know how to coach defense compared to the defense CPJ allowed to sit 12 yards off the ball while the opposing team threw swing passes all the way down the field for a TD.

 

[RickStromFan]

Let's take this in order,

Regardless of what initiated the comment, calling the spread offense CPJ developed a service academy offense is pejorative and, to me, disrespectful. I think his genius comes from being able to manipulate the blocking schemes to take advantage of numbers and misdirection. Not every offense does that. So, with unlimited time, not every offense is unstoppable.

That being said, I am not a CPJ spread option fanatic. I think it ran its course and was time to make a change. I think the complexity, combined with the negative recruiting, was too much for sustained success at this level. I think GT was going to be on a 3-4 year cycle as long as we were running that system. I'm not a staunch CPJ supporter or detractor. I just don't like to see smart people make stupid comments. I don't like it when I say stupid things either.

It's possible we could see a version of this at Tech again, but it'll be 1/2 to a whole generation from now. But, for now, we're going with the zone-read option that's being installed now. I'm okay with that too. I'm very happy with what I've seen so far. I'm excited to see what this group of coaches can get done.

Taking offense at "service academy offense" is only disrespectful to those looking to be offended. @Madison Grant already broke down how accurate a label it is. And the "unlimited practice time" thing is getting old too - all offense are "unstoppable with unlimited practice time". Frankly, that's a bit offensive to the PJ scheme: If it takes unlimited practice time to master, it's not the greatest fit for a team that has 18-19 yr old kids playing the game. Given how effective it was in 2009 and 2014, it's clear that it was more about having the J & Js than it was about unlimited practice time. Our QB in 2017-2018 had almost as much time in the offense as did JT5 but no one will ever compare the 2.

The continued veiled insult from you ("smart people say stupid things") is getting old and is uncalled for. I don't understand why the reality that the PJ offense isn't coming back makes you want to hurl invective at me. You're just shooting the messenger here.

I do agree that we weren't a HS offense and never used that label.

 

[takethepoints]

A few points about Paul's offense and it's use by high schools:

One of the posts above quoted a high school coach saying that the offense is too hard to coach. That's not really the case; there isn't a single football offense that takes a genius to figure out. However, most HS coaches didn't come up in the spread option and, as some of you may have noticed, this is, in general, not a band of people who will crack the books to get the O and the coaching straight. The shotgun spread is easier to teach and most of them have some experience in it. So they stick with it. You can't blame them for that.

The second reason was exemplified by the Flowery Branch program. Jaybo ran the TO as a junior, then the team switched. Why? Their BB graduated. The shotgun does not require that hard running midline-buster to be effective. Most shotgun teams don't hit the B gap regularly and a mid-size back with some speed will do just fine. To run the spread option you need a good BB and at least one half decent runner who can fit at AB. Not every team can do that.

Some above have also hit on the rule changes. This is not an unsurmountable obstacle, however. It makes some blocks more difficult, but, as 2014 showed, this isn't a killer. We were steadily moving toward bigger OLs so we could combat the difficulties and Paul didn't seem that concerned – we did lead the nation in rushing last year, after all.

Another post said that the practice requirements were too great. I don't think that's so either. What the O did require (and this is why the academies like it) is discipline. The plays have to be blocked as written, the OLs and skill people need to keep their heads on straight and make the blocks required, and the whole thing depends on disciplined team play. If you get that – and this is why we always did better when we were experienced – the O succeeded. The shotgun, oth, depends on putting superior athletes into a position where they can win one-on-one contests. After the game in 2011, a Clemson fan said that their O was based on letting their athletes make plays, but Paul's was designed to produce specific results for specific plays. Couldn't put it better myself.

None of this means we can't succeed with a shotgun spread. Lots of teams do and there's no reason Tech can't. But if you want to see why the spread option isn't ruling the roost in HS, all you have to do is look at the experience of the coaches. That's the biggest factor, imho.

 

[Coloradojacket]

A few points about Paul's offense and it's use by high schools:

One of the posts above quoted a high school coach saying that the offense is too hard to coach. That's not really the case; there isn't a single football offense that takes a genius to figure out. However, most HS coaches didn't come up in the spread option and, as some of you may have noticed, this is, in general, not a band of people who will crack the books to get the O and the coaching straight. The shotgun spread is easier to teach and most of them have some experience in it. So they stick with it. You can't blame them for that.

The second reason was exemplified by the Flowery Branch program. Jaybo ran the TO as a junior, then the team switched. Why? Their BB graduated. The shotgun does not require that hard running midline-buster to be effective. Most shotgun teams don't hit the B gap regularly and a mid-size back with some speed will do just fine. To run the spread option you need a good BB and at least one half decent runner who can fit at AB. Not every team can do that.

Some above have also hit on the rule changes. This is not an unsurmountable obstacle, however. It makes some blocks more difficult, but, as 2014 showed, this isn't a killer. We were steadily moving toward bigger OLs so we could combat the difficulties and Paul didn't seem that concerned – we did lead the nation in rushing last year, after all.

Another post said that the practice requirements were too great. I don't think that's so either. What the O did require (and this is why the academies like it) is discipline. The plays have to be blocked as written, the OLs and skill people need to keep their heads on straight and make the blocks required, and the whole thing depends on disciplined team play. If you get that – and this is why we always did better when we were experienced – the O succeeded. The shotgun, oth, depends on putting superior athletes into a position where they can win one-on-one contests. After the game in 2011, a Clemson fan said that their O was based on letting their athletes make plays, but Paul's was designed to produce specific results for specific plays. Couldn't put it better myself.

None of this means we can't succeed with a shotgun spread. Lots of teams do and there's no reason Tech can't. But if you want to see why the spread option isn't ruling the roost in HS, all you have to do is look at the experience of the coaches. That's the biggest factor, imho.

This is a great post and summary of Offense in general. Having played the Wishbone and Veer back in my days, it is a matter of discipline. But the bottom line as you point out, when your offense has some really good players and a solid O-line, you are good. Regardless of the scheme you run.

 

[iceeater1969]

You guys can **** up a thread. This post started out about the new era , new offense, new beginings , fresh start. Start a new thread called ( let's keep bringing up the same old bull**** ) and have at it. We just started off this recruiting year with a bang, lots of great stuff going on to be excited about. The team is excited and pumped up, the fan base is getting energized again, publicity in the media like I have not seen in a long time. Quit ****ting on it.

The "bring back the last half of 2014 offensers" are in denial of the first half of 14, 15, Duke beating us 4 of 5, 16 w mills and then 17 w/0 mills, 17 when 4 of our last completions were to the opponents, 17 and 18 being slaughtered by Clemson and uga, and the best coach for the offense quit.

I hope they can love gt enough to move on and give those gt assistant coaches that have returned a fair chance over the next few years.

I am hoping they will figure a way to attend more games.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Nope. He was signed by the staff that couldn’t recruit.

I tried to stay out of the fray but the last regime haters keep pulling me back in.

It will be interesting to see what transpires at QB and several other positions. The 3O / CPJ y’all will be with us for at least the next two years minimum it seems regardless of what transpires....Mostly generated by the CPJ/3O haters.

Seriously, why do you feel that it is it worth pointing out? What benefit does it bring to this forum to always assert something about previous staff? What value do such comments bring to the discussion.


Lol

But he was at WR last year catching smoke screens when we needed him at QB

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Seriously, why do you feel that it is it worth pointing out? What benefit does it bring to this forum to always assert something about previous staff? What value do such comments bring to the discussion.


Lol

But he was at WR last year catching smoke screens when we needed him at QB

I just find it comical how much trash is being thrown at the prior staff. How many weeks after CGC took over? Many of the same people who demand all fans get on the CGC hype train....trash the last regime repeatedly. Non stop. You yourself did this in a OT recruit thread. Couldn’t complement a slightly under the radar big nan with a lot of upside without throwing shade at the last regime.

Don’t want to hear about the last regime? Stop talking about them and you will almost certainly hear less.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Seriously, why do you feel that it is it worth pointing out? What benefit does it bring to this forum to always assert something about previous staff? What value do such comments bring to the discussion.


Lol

But he was at WR last year catching smoke screens when we needed him at QB

He was the third string QB last year. Played in three games at QB.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I just find it comical how much trash is being thrown at the prior staff. How many weeks after CGC took over? Many of the same people who demand all fans get on the CGC hype train....trash the last regime repeatedly. Non stop. You yourself did this in a OT recruit thread. Couldn’t complement a slightly under the radar big nan with a lot of upside without throwing shade at the last regime.

Don’t want to hear about the last regime? Stop talking about them and you will almost certainly hear less.

Seriously, no one is mentioning or concerned about the past regime except the ones who feel the need to have to defend every fiber of CPJ.

You guys are reading what you want to read. The entire team is CPJ recruits, what compelled you to remind everyone? We get it

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Seriously, no one is mentioning or concerned about the past regime except the ones who feel the need to have to defend every fiber of CPJ.

That's not exactly true. There have been plenty of posts, including one today, where someone directly threw shade at the CPJ regime. Now, some CPJ fans are overly sensitive to any perceived slight, but there are some fans out there pretty much trashing CPJ whenever they get a chance.

I was as big a CPJ fan as anyone on here. I'm now a huge CGC fan, and plan to remain one as long as he is coach here. Somewhere in the future both sides of the fan base will move on, but both sides need to give up the potshots for that to happen.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Seriously, no one is mentioning or concerned about the past regime except the ones who feel the need to have to defend every fiber of CPJ.

You guys are reading what you want to read. The entire team is CPJ recruits, what compelled you to remind everyone? We get it

Because we keep getting “we turning this program around” shoved up our keisters 24/7. Sounds like they’re calling all the current players crap to me. Well they ain’t crap!

 

[Nook Su Kow]

That's not exactly true. There have been plenty of posts, including one today, where someone directly threw shade at the CPJ regime. Now, some CPJ fans are overly sensitive to any perceived slight, but there are some fans out there pretty much trashing CPJ whenever they get a chance.

I was as big a CPJ fan as anyone on here. I'm now a huge CGC fan, and plan to remain one as long as he is coach here. Somewhere in the future both sides of the fan base will move on, but both sides need to give up the potshots for that to happen.

Spot on.

 

[SteamWhistle]

Because we keep getting “we turning this program around” shoved up our keisters 24/7. Sounds like they’re calling all the current players crap to me. Well they ain’t crap!

It’s not a diss, I wish people could understand that praising the current staff isn’t a diss to the old one. Literally we are all TECH fans at the end of the day, if you can’t support the coach support the players it’s as simple as that.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

These are the guys we have lost over the years that has made Duke and NCST competitive against us. Now it’s time to push them back into obscurity.

Glad to have to him

That’s just a fact not an attack based on 11 yr sample. He wasn’t offered by the the previous staff and based on their history of OL commits he wouldn’t been offered until June after an OL camp. You can look up and down those schools rosters and see metro Atlanta kids that make you say “Why isn’t he here at Tech?”

Seriously, no one is mentioning or concerned about the past regime except the ones who feel the need to have to defend every fiber of CPJ.

You guys are reading what you want to read. The entire team is CPJ recruits, what compelled you to remind everyone? We get it

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The hardcore CPJ haters are a minority.

True. They're just very vocal. Just like the hardcore CPJ supporters. I dare say 80-90% of this board is ready to move past all this nonsense.