Potential playoff expansion

[orientalnc]

Any time a large organization proposes a change to existing processes, you should automatically assume the organization intends for the change to be to their benefit. Any other assumption is irrational.

 

[yeti92]

Your idea solves "problem" of a conference being over represented... but creates one of not fielding a playoff with the best teams (potentially) if a P5 conference champ pulls a big upset (ie a Coastal ACC champ... as currently configured) ...as much as it hurts to say that.

Hopefully... this move will encourage ACC to blow up divisions to avoid a CCG that doesn't involve best 2 teams in ACC.

Based on that chart posted earlier in thread... 4 was the most any conference would have had & most years 3 was max. That's fine with me. Your idea isn't crazy... but the 4th best SEC team may deserve to be in a 12 team playoff in some years.

The 4th best SEC team never deserves to be in the playoff, even if they are the 4th best team in the country. The playoff should be about crowning a champion, not figuring out positions 2-12. 2-12 is irrelevant, it is only "not champion". If you are 4th best in your conference, you are not only not champion of your conference, you were largely not even in the conversation, so you should not be playing for any titles. If they want to whine "but muh SEC schedule is so hard" too bad, go join another conference that makes it easier then.

 

[FredJacket]

The 4th best SEC team never deserves to be in the playoff, even if they are the 4th best team in the country. The playoff should be about crowning a champion, not figuring out positions 2-12. 2-12 is irrelevant, it is only "not champion". If you are 4th best in your conference, you are not only not champion of your conference, you were largely not even in the conversation, so you should not be playing for any titles. If they want to whine "but muh SEC schedule is so hard" too bad, go join another conference that makes it easier then.

This is a good case for the current format or BCS.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Not wanting a 12 team playoff to be flooded with teams from one conference isn't really hating the conference. I don't really care which conference it is. I don't want to see 4-5 Big 10 teams either.

But if those conferences have the best teams then so be it. It’s not a matter of what you want to see. Those schools put more emphasis on football so why shouldn’t they get in. I’d love for GT to get 8n regularly but I also know GT doesn’t emphasis athletics like others therefore it will be once in a long while that our team gets in.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

This is a good case for the current format or BCS.

No it doesn’t because regular season opponents vary tremendous from team to team and conference to conference. The only way to make it a fair system is to INCREASE the playoff. As others have stated the ultimate reason they are changing isn’t fairness (that’s a by product) it’s the money. So the corrupt system will continue to gorge on the TV money and fan money, but that’s gonna happen no matter what system we have. By expanding we at least have more teams with a chance to earn it on the field. We can argue all year (and we will) about the “which team” but that wont last long because this thing is heading to 32 teams within the next 20 years.

 

[FredJacket]

No it doesn’t because regular season opponents vary tremendous from team to team and conference to conference. The only way to make it a fair system is to INCREASE the playoff. As others have stated the ultimate reason they are changing isn’t fairness (that’s a by product) it’s the money. So the corrupt system will continue to gorge on the TV money and fan money, but that’s gonna happen no matter what system we have. By expanding we at least have more teams with a chance to earn it on the field. We can argue all year (and we will) about the “which team” but that wont last long because this thing is heading to 32 teams within the next 20 years.

I was responding to someone else. He wanted to cap conference representation at 3 because if you aren't at top of conf you don't deserve a shot in a playoff (paraphrasing that poster). That is a good case for limiting the field to a very low number (4 or 2). That's all I was saying.

I agree with everything you said. Yes... we'll argue all day about who "deserves" to be included... it happens in a 68 team basketball tournament. That's impossible to prevent; and frankly, it's a feature... not a flaw of every playoff / tournament that relies on rankings & not record for selection.

 

[BurdellJacket]

Why are so many backside hurt about the SEC? Listen, the entire system is corrupt. From the NCAA offices down to the bagmen and high school coaches. Athletics is a combination of high IQ thieves and low IQ others. It‘s all about the money in both professional and so called amateur sports. Owners in the pros bring the real money with the players fighting for the rest. In amateur sports the colleges build temples for athletics while those in charge take the money. And they all have scumbags from testosterone to pedos to bagmen none of it is on the up and up.

We know all that and still watch and spend our money for it. The SEC simply does it better. I for one admire them. Obviously, UGA can bite me but the entire SEC puts more effort and money into athletics. So don’t hate the player, hate the game. If you really are honest we’ve all been flipping the channels and have the choice to watch Florida vs. Ole Miss or VT vs. NC State. I know which one I’m watching and it ain’t the Hokies. Clemson has shown that any mid pack team can control their own destiny if they really wanted. It’s called spending money on facilities, coaches, and bagmen and then take any player who can make the NCAA minimum score. That’s all it takes. Most teams don’t do th yet they whine about those that do. I just don’t understand that mentality.

Don't exactly understand what you are getting at. Seems as if you don't like our whining but since most bigtime programs cheat, we should just throw down the gauntlet and just CHEAT LIKE HELL!!!!!! And STOP WHINING!

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Don't exactly understand what you are getting at. Seems as if you don't like our whining but since most bigtime programs cheat, we should just throw down the gauntlet and just CHEAT LIKE HELL!!!!!! And STOP WHINING!

Bingo!!! I’ve posted this before but again here goes - GT chooses to take part in a system we all know is corrupt from its core to the outer edge. No one believes otherwise, especially smart GT alum. Since we choose to be part of the corrupt system then we shouldn’t be surprised when those good at corruption gain an advantage. All I’m saying here is that a lot of posters were already upset about the SEC or Big Ten getting more corrupt teams into a more corrupt playoff system. That’s who should get in. For any school to whine about it yet still be part of it I find comical. IF GT wanted to be an every year player we could. Just use the model we all know works - spend money on athletics/facilities/coaches and have bagmen and recruit to the NCAA minimum standard. In our region alone we have Bama, UGA, Clemson, Auburn, and FSU all doing it. But we all know GT the school will not do it because they put priorities elsewhere. I’m not saying those priorities are right or wrong for the school. But we are on a Football message board not a mechanical engineering message board so if we want to get better at football we know how to do it. Just like if we were on a mechanical engineering message board I would expect them to advocate for their interests. I’m never going to whine about where GT stands in this corrupt system because I know we aren’t even doing what works. And yes, I do savior those victories when the little guy beats a corrupt university. Heck, Auburn is corrupt to the core regarding football and they still aren’t that far ahead of GT.

 

[MWBATL]

Bingo!!! I’ve posted this before but again here goes - GT chooses to take part in a system we all know is corrupt from its core to the outer edge. No one believes otherwise, especially smart GT alum. Since we choose to be part of the corrupt system then we shouldn’t be surprised when those good at corruption gain an advantage. All I’m saying here is that a lot of posters were already upset about the SEC or Big Ten getting more corrupt teams into a more corrupt playoff system. That’s who should get in. For any school to whine about it yet still be part of it I find comical. IF GT wanted to be an every year player we could. Just use the model we all know works - spend money on athletics/facilities/coaches and have bagmen and recruit to the NCAA minimum standard. In our region alone we have Bama, UGA, Clemson, Auburn, and FSU all doing it. But we all know GT the school will not do it because they put priorities elsewhere. I’m not saying those priorities are right or wrong for the school. But we are on a Football message board not a mechanical engineering message board so if we want to get better at football we know how to do it. Just like if we were on a mechanical engineering message board I would expect them to advocate for their interests. I’m never going to whine about where GT stands in this corrupt system because I know we aren’t even doing what works. And yes, I do savior those victories when the little guy beats a corrupt university. Heck, Auburn is corrupt to the core regarding football and they still aren’t that far ahead of GT.

QFT!

 

[BurdellJacket]

QFT!

JWTF is QFT

 

[BurdellJacket]

Bingo!!! I’ve posted this before but again here goes - GT chooses to take part in a system we all know is corrupt from its core to the outer edge. No one believes otherwise, especially smart GT alum. Since we choose to be part of the corrupt system then we shouldn’t be surprised when those good at corruption gain an advantage. All I’m saying here is that a lot of posters were already upset about the SEC or Big Ten getting more corrupt teams into a more corrupt playoff system. That’s who should get in. For any school to whine about it yet still be part of it I find comical. IF GT wanted to be an every year player we could. Just use the model we all know works - spend money on athletics/facilities/coaches and have bagmen and recruit to the NCAA minimum standard. In our region alone we have Bama, UGA, Clemson, Auburn, and FSU all doing it. But we all know GT the school will not do it because they put priorities elsewhere. I’m not saying those priorities are right or wrong for the school. But we are on a Football message board not a mechanical engineering message board so if we want to get better at football we know how to do it. Just like if we were on a mechanical engineering message board I would expect them to advocate for their interests. I’m never going to whine about where GT stands in this corrupt system because I know we aren’t even doing what works. And yes, I do savior those victories when the little guy beats a corrupt university. Heck, Auburn is corrupt to the core regarding football and they still aren’t that far ahead of GT.

Wow! Calling your views cynical would seem Pollyannish. Surprised you mess with college sport at all.

 

[g0lftime]

If you recruit minimum qualifiers then you better have degrees and courses that are meaningless or shouldn't be worthy of a college degree. Just have them to keep athletes eligible. That's the big advantage that these huge state universities have.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

If you recruit minimum qualifiers then you better have degrees and courses that are meaningless or shouldn't be worthy of a college degree. Just have them to keep athletes eligible. That's the big advantage that these huge state universities have.

Yep. They ain’t playing school. They playing football.

And yes I’m cynical because I’ve been following college football for about 40 years so the innocence is gone and the corruption slaps you in the face. It use to be coaches twisting the arms of regional sportswriters for their vote. Then it turned into entire conferences twisting arms and gaming computer programs to get into the BCS. Now, we are suppose to believe a committee of the “finest” aren’t getting their arms twisted. And as a GT fan we have all seen our school get abused by the NCAA and the Tobacco Road ACC does nothing for us. They screwed Johnson over for a decade with giving teams byes. We got busted for clothes when UNC creates fraudulent programs to get in the game. It’s ridiculous even though I admire what UNC did. And guess what? They are now a team that gets ranked and talked about so it worked. Again, corruption in this system works because the system is built on corruption.

 

[Southpawmac]

The 4th best SEC team never deserves to be in the playoff, even if they are the 4th best team in the country. The playoff should be about crowning a champion, not figuring out positions 2-12. 2-12 is irrelevant, it is only "not champion". If you are 4th best in your conference, you are not only not champion of your conference, you were largely not even in the conversation, so you should not be playing for any titles. If they want to whine "but muh SEC schedule is so hard" too bad, go join another conference that makes it easier then.

Well I guess we need to cut March Madness. Anyone in the tournament that didn’t win their conference doesn’t deserve a shot. Strip Baylor’s title because they didn’t win the Big 12. What scrubs.

 

[WreckinGT]

But if those conferences have the best teams then so be it. It’s not a matter of what you want to see. Those schools put more emphasis on football so why shouldn’t they get in. I’d love for GT to get 8n regularly but I also know GT doesn’t emphasis athletics like others therefore it will be once in a long while that our team gets in.

So you would be ok with a structure that doesn't even include conference champions and could just be 12 teams all from the same conference as long as they are deemed the "best" by the random rotating group of old people that get together every year?

 

[orientalnc]

So you would be ok with a structure that doesn't even include conference champions and could just be 12 teams all from the same conference as long as they are deemed the "best" by the random rotating group of old people that get together every year?

I am not sure I agree with your point, but a random group of old people might be better than the current group of old people.

 

[WreckinGT]

I am not sure I agree with your point, but a random group of old people might be better than the current group of old people.

Literally without looking I can't name a single person on the committee right now and it changes frequently. But we are convinced that they are incredibly enlightened and can easily decide whether one team is better than another even with 2-3 losses and completely different schedules. In this world the 2014 Miss St team was a much better team than we were.

 

[HurricaneJacket]

Can we just us the old BCS computer system for picking the remaining 6 instead of committee ratings? My biggest concern is that the "committee" remains in play.

 

[RonJohn]

Can we just us the old BCS computer system for picking the remaining 6 instead of committee ratings? My biggest concern is that the "committee" remains in play.

The BCS wasn't a computer system. It used several computer ranking systems in addition to the coaches' poll. They forced the computer ranking systems to modify their ranking systems, and then ended up putting more emphasis on the poll than the computers.

The big problem is that there is not a perfect contrast between "two" or "four" teams and every other single team in football. A poll is going to have bias built in. A computer ranking system is only as good as the algorithms used. (Do you put more emphasis on offense or defense? Do you include score differential comparisons between two teams with common opponents if one team subbed in after the first half and the other didn't sub until halfway through the fourth quarter?) My opinion is that every team should have a clear path to get a guarantee into the playoffs at the beginning of the year. Complete that path and you are in without any interference from a committee. Fail to complete that path and the committee might give you another opportunity, but you don't have a right to complain because you could have just done what you knew you had to do.

 

[BurdellJacket]

Well I guess we need to cut March Madness. Anyone in the tournament that didn’t win their conference doesn’t deserve a shot. Strip Baylor’s title because they didn’t win the Big 12. What scrubs.

That is not what was ever said. Several have stated that all P5 conf champs and at least 1 (maybe more depending on ranking?) G5 champion should be seeded. That leaves possibly 5 or 6 at large ranked schools.