Postgame BC

rosebud78

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
70
I've got a theory about our defense. It also relates to our offense as well. There was a saying, when I was in the army, you train like you fight. Our defense trains the opposite of the way it should fight. Our defense plays our offense. (Scout team As well) So, just like Bc's defense, it is better when playing our offense, to let plays develop and not react off of instinct. This however is a detriment when playing other offenses. The purpose of training being that you don't think, you react. Our defense is most likely pretty good in playing our offense.
Tech gets astronimically better as the season progresses due to unlearning the training of playing itself.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,026
I've got a theory about our defense. It also relates to our offense as well. There was a saying, when I was in the army, you train like you fight. Our defense trains the opposite of the way it should fight. Our defense plays our offense. (Scout team As well) So, just like Bc's defense, it is better when playing our offense, to let plays develop and not react off of instinct. This however is a detriment when playing other offenses. The purpose of training being that you don't think, you react. Our defense is most likely pretty good in playing our offense.
Tech gets astronimically better as the season progresses due to unlearning the training of playing itself.

I'm pretty sure that's not it, fwiw.
 

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
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I've got a theory about our defense. It also relates to our offense as well. There was a saying, when I was in the army, you train like you fight. Our defense trains the opposite of the way it should fight. Our defense plays our offense. (Scout team As well) So, just like Bc's defense, it is better when playing our offense, to let plays develop and not react off of instinct. This however is a detriment when playing other offenses. The purpose of training being that you don't think, you react. Our defense is most likely pretty good in playing our offense.
Tech gets astronimically better as the season progresses due to unlearning the training of playing itself.

I have a theory too. I think we fail to respond to the fact that, like Bama, SCal and the fball blue bloods of the world, we seemingly get everybody's best shot.

NO I AM NOT SAYING WE'RE ON THAT LEVEL. However, teams game plan specifically for us for years at a time. Our game gets emphasized by each one of our opponents. They'd almost rather lose to whoever they play before or after us, but they do not want to lose to us with our "high school" offense.

We see new coverages, one-off schemes, shifts and changes that they basically experiment on us that we have to respond to in-game. That's a lot to deal with and if we're not there mentally we have a tough time winning. Hopefully we have a leader emerge to keep guys on task. Coaching staff can only do so much.

Just some random thoughts.
 

Jacket prime

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
89
I have a theory too. I think we fail to respond to the fact that, like Bama, SCal and the fball blue bloods of the world, we seemingly get everybody's best shot.

NO I AM NOT SAYING WE'RE ON THAT LEVEL. However, teams game plan specifically for us for years at a time. Our game gets emphasized by each one of our opponents. They'd almost rather lose to whoever they play before or after us, but they do not want to lose to us with our "high school" offense.

We see new coverages, one-off schemes, shifts and changes that they basically experiment on us that we have to respond to in-game. That's a lot to deal with and if we're not there mentally we have a tough time winning. Hopefully we have a leader emerge to keep guys on task. Coaching staff can only do so much.

Just some random thoughts.
i think there is something to this, though not because our opponents don't want to lose to a "high school offense." i've always figured that because we run an unfamiliar offence with the level of athlete we have that we have a somewhat unique ability to ruin some seasons unless they give us their full attention. our game becomes a point of emphasis for opposing teams. that said, with some of our Coastal opponents, it may be a bit more "personal."
 

Northeast Stinger

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iceeater1969

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I've got a theory about our defense. It also relates to our offense as well. There was a saying, when I was in the army, you train like you fight. Our defense trains the opposite of the way it should fight. Our defense plays our offense. (Scout team As well) So, just like Bc's defense, it is better when playing our offense, to let plays develop and not react off of instinct. This however is a detriment when playing other offenses. The purpose of training being that you don't think, you react. Our defense is most likely pretty good in playing our offense.
Tech gets astronimically better as the season progresses due to unlearning the training of playing itself.[/QUOT.
Agree w first part but not sure I agree that we get "that" much better.

Would a much more aggressive defensive scheme improve more over the season. ?
 

Northeast Stinger

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i think there is something to this, though not because our opponents don't want to lose to a "high school offense." i've always figured that because we run an unfamiliar offence with the level of athlete we have that we have a somewhat unique ability to ruin some seasons unless they give us their full attention. our game becomes a point of emphasis for opposing teams. that said, with some of our Coastal opponents, it may be a bit more "personal."
And to reiterate what has been said before, we certainly see teams have bad games right before or right after playing us because they spent so much time preparing for Tech that they lose their edge against another team.
 

collegeballfan

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maybe we should just de-emphasize athletics and be done with it.
There is that argument to make. And I really do not have a counter argument to make. Georgia Tech's "notoriety" stems (sorry) from academics, not athletics.
Georgia Tech is not known around the world for athletics like, say, Notre Dame. But Georgia Tech is known around the world for it's academics.

Can you have both? (Please no Stanford talk, we have beat that to death!)
 

Techster

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18,235
I have a theory too. I think we fail to respond to the fact that, like Bama, SCal and the fball blue bloods of the world, we seemingly get everybody's best shot.

NO I AM NOT SAYING WE'RE ON THAT LEVEL. However, teams game plan specifically for us for years at a time. Our game gets emphasized by each one of our opponents. They'd almost rather lose to whoever they play before or after us, but they do not want to lose to us with our "high school" offense.

We see new coverages, one-off schemes, shifts and changes that they basically experiment on us that we have to respond to in-game. That's a lot to deal with and if we're not there mentally we have a tough time winning. Hopefully we have a leader emerge to keep guys on task. Coaching staff can only do so much.

Just some random thoughts.

I've written about this before in various threads.

We get EVERYONE's best shot. Not because GT is an elite college football team that everyone wants to knock off the pedestal (ala 'Bama), but because our offense is so unique and the media and fans make such a big deal out of stopping such a "unique" offense that opposing players get challenged whether they're up to the task or not leading up to the game. Because they only see this offense once a season (if in our division) or once every blue moon if they're on our schedule, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Defensive Coordinators, being the competitors they are, are also keyed up to beat CPJ. Let's be realistic, they take pride in collecting scalps of unique challenges or elite offenses. GT offense more often than not performs at an elite level running the ball, and beating CPJ is a nice scalp to collect.
 

tech_wreck47

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I want to disagree with this, but it's getting hard to anymore with CPJ as HC. I've just come to accept the fact that under CPJ, our best defense will always be our offense.
Or we can look at the coach that coaches the D. Cpj isn't the D coordinator, only thing we can complain about cpj for our D being not to good is his hires imo.
 

sidewalkGTfan

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Or we can look at the coach that coaches the D. Cpj isn't the D coordinator, only thing we can complain about cpj for our D being not to good is his hires imo.
I just wish CPJ showed a little more "ownership" on that side of the ball. I realize the O is CPJ's baby to some degree, and I do think he wants a good D, but it just feels like he lets Roof and the D assistants do their own thing over there. I don't like it when CPJ says to the media, "we need to a better job of bringing pressure," or something to that effect. If CPJ wants to be more aggressive on D, he should just tell Roof that's the style he wants to run. Stuff like that makes me think there's not much communication between CPJ and the D coaches.

I really have no clue about what goes on behind the scenes, but something just doesn't add up with what CPJ says and how our D plays...JMO
 

AE 87

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I just wish CPJ showed a little more "ownership" on that side of the ball. I realize the O is CPJ's baby to some degree, and I do think he wants a good D, but it just feels like he lets Roof and the D assistants do their own thing over there. I don't like it when CPJ says to the media, "we need to a better job of bringing pressure," or something to that effect. If CPJ wants to be more aggressive on D, he should just tell Roof that's the style he wants to run. Stuff like that makes me think there's not much communication between CPJ and the D coaches.

I really have no clue about what goes on behind the scenes, but something just doesn't add up with what CPJ says and how our D plays...JMO

I hear you. He certainly often talks as HC/OC and not just HC. However, from a lot of other things he's said, I don't think you need to worry about CPJ getting involved on D when he feels the need.
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
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2,150
So, assuming CTR is a good coach, you are suggesting that Tech's problem, so far, is not having recruited good enough players for the defense? Sounds like the reason CTR gives for not having a more aggressive style of play and using what some call, "bend but don't break."
A lot of times what people call "aggressive" isn't really what I would like to see. It's not just about blitzing, it's how you blitz. And, what do we even mean by "blitz".

For most in the football business, a blitz is when you send 6 or more and you're playing man or man-free behind it. Tenuta did this some, but more often, he sent 5. This was called a "zone-dog". And, you never knew who the 5 were going to be and where they would be coming from. It could be 4 DL and a LB or 3 DL and 2 LB's or 3 DL a LB and a DB, you get the picture. Now, is this aggressive? Yes and no. I'd call it creative, controlled-aggressiveness. Sending 5 still gives you 6 to cover all of the zones in the passing game, so you've still got 3 deep and 3 underneath or 2 deep and 4 underneath. So, it's got elements of the aggressive blitz and elements of the safe zone coverage and run fits/support. And, a big part of what made it effective is the deception/disguise. Everybody in the back 7 were moving, buzzing up and back, and the OL/QB would be very taxed to try to know before the snap who was coming and where they were going to be coming from. So, sending 5 in this way could very well provide more pressure on the QB than just sending 6 with less disguise.

As ibeeballin pointed out in his vids, we actually ran some similar stunts in the first series against BC. Bench-Falcon-9-Anchor ... a zone dog where the Sam comes off the edge, the DE big sticks (crash inside hard), and the Mike loops through the B-gap. Weak DE actually drops into coverage. We're playing 3 deep behind it. So, you've got the Will covering the middle who is also able to run to the ball freely in case a ball carrier gets through the penetration from the zone-dog, the weak DE covering the hook/curl/flat and acting as an outside force player on that side, a safety buzzed up to cover hook/curl/flat on the other side and acting as outside force defender. Then you've got another safety and 2 corners playing cover 3 behind all that. The buzz-safety and WDE are taught to anticipate and take away the quick throw which takes away the QB's hot route. Again, you have the benefit of aggressive defense without sacrificing the conservativeness of zone support behind it (thus still minimizing chance of a big offensive play that gets by/behind everybody - you heard ibeeballin say it - "Live to play another down").

When we ran this against BC, it was wide open for a big sack (possibly a strip-sack) both times on the first series. The lane for the Mike was wide open, unimpeded to the QB. Once the Mike just inexplicably decided to go into the trash inside instead of looping through the lane in the B-gap. Another time he does loop correctly and is immediately in on the QB for a sack but the QB steps up and easily avoids the Mike who slips down and makes it into a positive run rather than a sack. So, when we run this stuff, it isn't getting home ... why? Lack of disguise or simply lacking making the play. Why didn't the mike make the play? Was it the player, was it lack of coaching up, lack of reps doing that kind of stuff, or maybe we chalk it up to first game mistakes. One was bench-falcon, another was tomahawk I believe ibeeballin said. I don't remember that one as much. Was that a Tenuta stunt @Ibeeballin ? I remember most of his being named after birds and drinks and weather. My mind is getting fuzzier, but I seem to remember bird names being zone-dogs, drink names were blitzes (man free?), and weather names were sending 7 (0 - man-coverage).

My whole point is that simply saying "We need to be more aggressive" or "We need to blitz more" is not going to be sufficient to cause our defense to get better results. It has to be whole-sale systematic defensive play. And, it has to be sound and complimentary to everything else you're doing on defense and compatible with all of your different personnel packages.
 

SidewalkJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
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A lot of times what people call "aggressive" isn't really what I would like to see. It's not just about blitzing, it's how you blitz. And, what do we even mean by "blitz".

For most in the football business, a blitz is when you send 6 or more and you're playing man or man-free behind it. Tenuta did this some, but more often, he sent 5. This was called a "zone-dog". And, you never knew who the 5 were going to be and where they would be coming from. It could be 4 DL and a LB or 3 DL and 2 LB's or 3 DL a LB and a DB, you get the picture. Now, is this aggressive? Yes and no. I'd call it creative, controlled-aggressiveness. Sending 5 still gives you 6 to cover all of the zones in the passing game, so you've still got 3 deep and 3 underneath or 2 deep and 4 underneath. So, it's got elements of the aggressive blitz and elements of the safe zone coverage and run fits/support. And, a big part of what made it effective is the deception/disguise. Everybody in the back 7 were moving, buzzing up and back, and the OL/QB would be very taxed to try to know before the snap who was coming and where they were going to be coming from. So, sending 5 in this way could very well provide more pressure on the QB than just sending 6 with less disguise.

As ibeeballin pointed out in his vids, we actually ran some similar stunts in the first series against BC. Bench-Falcon-9-Anchor ... a zone dog where the Sam comes off the edge, the DE big sticks (crash inside hard), and the Mike loops through the B-gap. Weak DE actually drops into coverage. We're playing 3 deep behind it. So, you've got the Will covering the middle who is also able to run to the ball freely in case a ball carrier gets through the penetration from the zone-dog, the weak DE covering the hook/curl/flat and acting as an outside force player on that side, a safety buzzed up to cover hook/curl/flat on the other side and acting as outside force defender. Then you've got another safety and 2 corners playing cover 3 behind all that. The buzz-safety and WDE are taught to anticipate and take away the quick throw which takes away the QB's hot route. Again, you have the benefit of aggressive defense without sacrificing the conservativeness of zone support behind it (thus still minimizing chance of a big offensive play that gets by/behind everybody - you heard ibeeballin say it - "Live to play another down").

When we ran this against BC, it was wide open for a big sack (possibly a strip-sack) both times on the first series. The lane for the Mike was wide open, unimpeded to the QB. Once the Mike just inexplicably decided to go into the trash inside instead of looping through the lane in the B-gap. Another time he does loop correctly and is immediately in on the QB for a sack but the QB steps up and easily avoids the Mike who slips down and makes it into a positive run rather than a sack. So, when we run this stuff, it isn't getting home ... why? Lack of disguise or simply lacking making the play. Why didn't the mike make the play? Was it the player, was it lack of coaching up, lack of reps doing that kind of stuff, or maybe we chalk it up to first game mistakes. One was bench-falcon, another was tomahawk I believe ibeeballin said. I don't remember that one as much. Was that a Tenuta stunt @Ibeeballin ? I remember most of his being named after birds and drinks and weather. My mind is getting fuzzier, but I seem to remember bird names being zone-dogs, drink names were blitzes (man free?), and weather names were sending 7 (0 - man-coverage).

My whole point is that simply saying "We need to be more aggressive" or "We need to blitz more" is not going to be sufficient to cause our defense to get better results. It has to be whole-sale systematic defensive play. And, it has to be sound and complimentary to everything else you're doing on defense and compatible with all of your different personnel packages.

Everything you just said. Yes
 
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