Post season awards for GT hoops

[kg01]

You can argue "great" but most anyone would also agree he is a "very good or excellent" coach

Much like your avatar, you are wrong here, sir. Roy is not a guy who could take his'n and beat your'n. In order to win, he has to have superior talent. Otherwise, they have to rely on his "offense" to score. I defy you to watch his teams consistently run plays and have consistently decent/good results. It just doesn't happen.

Conversely, watch how many times the play breaks down and the guy who ends up with the ball just ends up making a play.

The "respect" he has is garnered from having been around for decades and having the right friends. Of course no coach is gonna say anything other than, "Shucks, ol' Roy's one of the best in the business." at this point.

 

[YlJacket]

Much like your avatar, you are wrong here, sir. Roy is not a guy who could take his'n and beat your'n. In order to win, he has to have superior talent. Otherwise, they have to rely on his "offense" to score. I defy you to watch his teams consistently run plays and have consistently decent/good results. It just doesn't happen.

Conversely, watch how many times the play breaks down and the guy who ends up with the ball just ends up making a play.

The "respect" he has is garnered from having been around for decades and having the right friends. Of course no coach is gonna say anything other than, "Shucks, ol' Roy's one of the best in the business." at this point.

umm - he just beat Duke that has a superior roster to his. He runs some very good though old school secondary break and double post offensive sets. Few plays but he does run their sets pretty well. In particular I use his secondary break and 2-3 zone offense with my AAU team.

FWIW most of college basketball is "making a play". Syracuse wasn't running plays to get White open he was just hot. Duke or KY drive and dish are not set plays but someone making a play. I don't think UNC is much different than most other teams in that regard.

Roy is a devote of the older school double post approach to basketball. Most have moved on to the stretch 4 / spread the floor approach. Roy runs it much more uptempo than most including Izzo and his disciples but it is still a legit and discernible but old school Dean Smith scheme.

I don't think Roy is as good as K or Wooden or some of the other "great" coaches. And he has brain farts in not calling TOs at times that defy all logic and description. But to say he made the Hall of Fame, won 800 games, 7 ACC regular season titles and 2 NCAA titles is not a very good to excellent coach is just silly.

 

[Peacone36]

Hell you forgot Nate Bitt and he was a top 100 kid I think.

 

[kg01]

umm - he just beat Duke that has a superior roster to his. He runs some very good though old school secondary break and double post offensive sets. Few plays but he does run their sets pretty well. In particular I use his secondary break and 2-3 zone offense with my AAU team.

FWIW most of college basketball is "making a play". Syracuse wasn't running plays to get White open he was just hot. Duke or KY drive and dish are not set plays but someone making a play. I don't think UNC is much different than most other teams in that regard.

Roy is a devote of the older school double post approach to basketball. Most have moved on to the stretch 4 / spread the floor approach. Roy runs it much more uptempo than most including Izzo and his disciples but it is still a legit and discernible but old school Dean Smith scheme.

I don't think Roy is as good as K or Wooden or some of the other "great" coaches. And he has brain farts in not calling TOs at times that defy all logic and description. But to say he made the Hall of Fame, won 800 games, 7 ACC regular season titles and 2 NCAA titles is not a very good to excellent coach is just silly.

Duke/UNC are close in talent so I wouldn't call that an upset at all. You make some pretty good points w.r.t. his style of play and the fact that a lot of cbb comes down to a guy "making a play". However, I'd say my point is there are a lot of stretches of UNC game where it's just 'roll the ball out' level play. Moreso than is normal.

As an aside, you're killing me with throwing Wooden in as a "great" coach. What was his record before Sam Gilbert starting buying his talent? How 'genius' was the pyramid before Sam Gilbert guaranteed he'd by far out-talent every opponent he faced? Imagine if all Geno Auriema's players were bought and paid for. How "great" would his accomplishments really be?

Sorry, not yelling at you, that just always gets me going. A lot of cbb is dirty, Wooden/UCLA were as dirty as they come.

 

[YlJacket]

With Wooden you can extend to the fact he only had to win what - 4/5 games? to win the tourney? Something like that? And a lot less BB talent overall that could be stockpiled - was it Sven Nater that made the NBA off his scout team that was on ship but never dressed for games? There wasn't nearly as much talent around so only a few teams had a real chance to win it all. Heard the rumors about buying talent. Got all that. Still doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach.

K has his issues and I think he is a "great" coach too. I would agree with you that very few really good coaches are squeaky clean

 

[CuseJacket]

Couple random thoughts.

1) When was the last time, if ever, a coach won ACC COY with a losing league record? I'm sure this is out there somewhere. Just haven't looked.

2) There are three frosh who earned more Freshman of the Year votes than Okogie. Smith, Isaac, Tatum. Good chance all three are gone to the NBA. That would mean we have the best returning freshman/true sophomore in the league next year to go along with COY and DPOY. Not only is that a tremendously strong trio, they all like to work and will be team leaders. Hard to think of better examples for the rest to follow. That's a great path to building a culture.

 

[AE 87]

Couple random thoughts.

1) When was the last time, if ever, a coach won ACC COY with a losing league record? I'm sure this is out there somewhere. Just haven't looked.

2) There are three frosh who earned more Freshman of the Year votes than Okogie. Smith, Isaac, Tatum. Good chance all three are gone to the NBA. That would mean we have the best returning freshman/true sophomore in the league next year to go along with COY and DPOY. Not only is that a tremendously strong trio, they all like to work and will be team leaders. Hard to think of better examples for the rest to follow. That's a great path to building a culture.

All good points, but you left off Roy being an overrated coach.

If he coached the globetrotters, he'd lose 6 to the generals.

 

[Peacone36]

Couple random thoughts.

1) When was the last time, if ever, a coach won ACC COY with a losing league record? I'm sure this is out there somewhere. Just haven't looked.

2) There are three frosh who earned more Freshman of the Year votes than Okogie. Smith, Isaac, Tatum. Good chance all three are gone to the NBA. That would mean we have the best returning freshman/true sophomore in the league next year to go along with COY and DPOY. Not only is that a tremendously strong trio, they all like to work and will be team leaders. Hard to think of better examples for the rest to follow. That's a great path to building a culture.

Add in the fact that we have a potential wing deep threat and a young man who likes to ruuuuuuunnnnnn coming in....

Might be cooking with peanut oil....

 

[northgajacket]

Had to respond to at least one lol

What a dumbass, the coach of the year is not based on win loss records. It amazes me how dumb people are.

 

[lv20gt]

Couple random thoughts.

1) When was the last time, if ever, a coach won ACC COY with a losing league record? I'm sure this is out there somewhere. Just haven't looked.

Bobby Cremins in 82-83 is the only other time it's happened.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

All good points, but you left off Roy being an overrated coach.

If he coached the globetrotters, he'd lose 6 to the generals.

This is why I frequent this board.

 

[RamblinRed]

A couple of responses to notes in this thread.

In general there are 25 5* players each year (give or take a couple) and about 100 4* (or better) players in college basketball.
There have been years when the recruiting services have given out up to 115-120 4* or higher - but that is relatively rare.

Basically the Top 25 is 5* and the Top 100 is 4*.
Everything else is 3* and lower.

One other note. Due to AAU basketball there are fewer misses in terms of talent because most of these players play against each other nationally each year. So you get a better sense of who the really top players are.

i will say the kids from 50-150 you can largely put in a blender. Their success relative to each other is based more on choosing the right program and having the work ethic to improve.


On the ACC voting. The Atlantic Coasts Sports Media Association used to be the official ACC awards voting. The ACC changed that this year to this new voting setup and the ACSMA is now unofficial. I believe there was some feeling that the ACSMA tended to have a NC biased voting record.

 

[alagold]

Wow, just wow! Its like I wondered into another world.Multiple victories, COY, DPOY,All-Fr, All-ACC , amazing with a dumpster fire possible.-wow just wow.

 

[Peacone36]