Poll - What is a reasonable amount of time for Collins to be given?

[Jim Prather]

But I thought the point was to get better? At that point, we would be averaging < 7 wins per season and would have a winning percentage of .571. That would make him the least winning coach since Bill Lewis.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So I am curious about something... You have correctly pointed out that the 2022 schedule is not a cakewalk. Looking at the 2021 schedule, though, it looks like an absolute murderers row. I am legitimately only expecting us to win 3-4 games next season - assuming we can figure out how to beat an FCS opponent.
Hypothetically speaking, if we only win 4 games next season, what kind of season do you think will we have to have in 2022 in order for CGC to stay off the hotseat?

Leaving emotion out of this and looking at it pragmatically, I don't see any way CGC is let go before year 5 at the absolute earliest. Several reasons for this:

1. The buyout is steep and we aren't in great financial shape.
2. It was always known that this transition would be painful. TStan will give him a real chance to right the ship.
3. Every other future coach is watching this transition. If we don't give CGC time to correct, it will hurt our chances with future hires.
4. Progress in recruiting so far is nothing short of phenomenal. It was expected that we would improve once we started recruiting for a more "normal" offense, but I don't think anyone reasonably predicted the chance we could end up top 20. (I still think 23-28 range but top 20 is in play atm)

If we continue to recruit well for several years, and we quit getting demolished by the better teams on our schedule, I am sure that TStan will give CGC room to maneuver. IMO, I think between 4-6 wins next year and 5-8 wins in 2021 are very possible, and we need to expect that we will win in 2021 & 2022. If we fall short on some fluke plays similar to several of our recent games against Pitt & Miami with CPJ, then I think we can extend grace. If we lose to VT like we did this year in 2021 then I think there will be some heat applied. As long as progress is being made, I see 4-5 years as a minimum.

 

[dtm1997]

Ok, here's a hypothetical.

CGC starts out 3-9. Let's say each of his next six seasons (the length of his contract) are the following:

5-7
9-3
10-2
8-4
8-4
5-7

Do you keep him or not?

Yes. You keep him.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Ok, here's a hypothetical.

CGC starts out 3-9. Let's say each of his next six seasons (the length of his contract) are the following:

5-7
9-3
10-2
8-4
8-4
5-7

Do you keep him or not?

Fire him. All those winning seasons with no bowl games means he got us on probation...

 

[WreckinGT]

Ok, here's a hypothetical.

CGC starts out 3-9. Let's say each of his next six seasons (the length of his contract) are the following:

5-7
9-3
10-2
8-4
8-4
5-7

Do you keep him or not?

If he goes 10-2 against the schedule I posted above in 2022, following a 9-3 season against a comparably tough schedule in 2021 then we may not have to worry about keeping him 3 years later. He may already be gone.

 

[gtcrew]

If he goes 10-2 against the schedule I posted above in 2022, following a 9-3 season against a comparably tough schedule in 2021 then we may not have to worry about keeping him 3 years later. He may already be gone.

Seems like CGC has consistently said this is the pinnacle in his mind. Grew up 8.8 miles from campus.

To think he would leave would mean you think he doesnt believe what he is saying. I believe CGC.

 

[gtcrew]

But to your point, if he goes 10-2 against that schedule his contract will be updated in a way that firing in year 7 wont be an option.

 

[Jim Prather]

Leaving emotion out of this and looking at it pragmatically, I don't see any way CGC is let go before year 5 at the absolute earliest. Several reasons for this:

1. The buyout is steep and we aren't in great financial shape.
2. It was always known that this transition would be painful. TStan will give him a real chance to right the ship.
3. Every other future coach is watching this transition. If we don't give CGC time to correct, it will hurt our chances with future hires.
4. Progress in recruiting so far is nothing short of phenomenal. It was expected that we would improve once we started recruiting for a more "normal" offense, but I don't think anyone reasonably predicted the chance we could end up top 20. (I still think 23-28 range but top 20 is in play atm)

If we continue to recruit well for several years, and we quit getting demolished by the better teams on our schedule, I am sure that TStan will give CGC room to maneuver. IMO, I think between 4-6 wins next year and 5-8 wins in 2021 are very possible, and we need to expect that we will win in 2021 & 2022. If we fall short on some fluke plays similar to several of our recent games against Pitt & Miami with CPJ, then I think we can extend grace. If we lose to VT like we did this year in 2021 then I think there will be some heat applied. As long as progress is being made, I see 4-5 years as a minimum.

That is a very good answer, but I'm actually asking a slightly different question. I'm not asking about when he should be fired - realistically, whether that is year 3 or year 7, it will only occur when a major donor (or group of donors) puts together the funds to buy out his contract. And I certainly can't predict when that will happen.

I guess what I am asking is what does CGC have to do in order to keep the leash from getting short?

My personal assumption is that we will not make a bowl game next season, so does that mean we have to make a bowl in 2022? Would 6-6 be enough to keep him off the hot seat? Maybe, but then you start looking at his overall record, and a 3 year stretch of 3-9, 4-8, and 6-6 will almost certainly make him one of the most losing coaches in GT history - regardless of what he does in subsequent seasons. What is enough to compensate for that?

 

[Jim Prather]

Fire him. All those winning seasons with no bowl games means he got us on probation...

LOL...

 

[WreckinGT]

Seems like CGC has consistently said this is the pinnacle in his mind. Grew up 8.8 miles from campus.

To think he would leave would mean you think he doesnt believe what he is saying. I believe CGC.

I think it is naive to think that if he becomes a hot name and a bigger program with more resources and a larger fan base wants to throw 6-7 million a year at him that he won't seriously consider it.

 

[jacket_fan]

Maybe, but then you start looking at his overall record, and a 3 year stretch of 3-9, 4-8, and 6-6 will almost certainly make him one of the most losing coaches in GT history - regardless of what he does in subsequent seasons. What is enough to compensate for that?

That record is more than enough to appease many on this board. And I would assume TStan has a set of expectations and would look at what the program looks like overall. My opinion is that record buys him another season. But my opinion means nothing. TStan is the one making the moves.

And if CGC gets the opportunity, I bet he would pull a "Curry" if Bama offered the big contract.

 

[gtcrew]

I think it is naive to think that if he becomes a hot name and a bigger program with more resources and a larger fan base wants to throw 6-7 million a year at him that he won't seriously consider it.

I think it is naive to think we cant pay 6-7 million if we are playing at a 10-2 level.

 

[Jim Prather]

It doesn't matter how many games we win, if we don't increase our revenue stream, we will remain handcuffed...

 

[gtcrew]

It doesn't matter how many games we win, if we don't increase our revenue stream, we will remain handcuffed...

Thats the upside of not being sold out already. If we go 10-2 ticket sales will go up.

Merchandise will go up.

The 404 may be primarily about recruiting, but it is also about gaining sidewalk fans.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

That is a very good answer, but I'm actually asking a slightly different question. I'm not asking about when he should be fired - realistically, whether that is year 3 or year 7, it will only occur when a major donor (or group of donors) puts together the funds to buy out his contract. And I certainly can't predict when that will happen.

I guess what I am asking is what does CGC have to do in order to keep the leash from getting short?

My personal assumption is that we will not make a bowl game next season, so does that mean we have to make a bowl in 2022? Would 6-6 be enough to keep him off the hot seat? Maybe, but then you start looking at his overall record, and a 3 year stretch of 3-9, 4-8, and 6-6 will almost certainly make him one of the most losing coaches in GT history - regardless of what he does in subsequent seasons. What is enough to compensate for that?

I was told from a pretty reliable source that the major donors are pretty much all in on CGC and understand there is no shortcut in this transition. I was not given a year range, but for many of the reasons I highlighted above, I believe CGC is comfortably safe through year 4. Year 5 begins the hot seat talk.

Again, the caveat is that his seat gets warm a bit quicker if we lose again to an FCS team or we continue to get drubbed by VT or other Non-Clemson ACC teams.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Thats the upside of not being sold out already. If we go 10-2 ticket sales will go up.

Merchandise will go up.

The 404 may be primarily about recruiting, but it is also about gaining sidewalk fans.

Ironically, the people I know on this board who aren't "sold out" for CGC still buy an awful lot of GT merchandise and donate heavily. It will take winning to bring sidewalk fans in.

 

[gtcrew]

Ironically, the people I know on this board who aren't "sold out" for CGC still buy an awful lot of GT merchandise and donate heavily. It will take winning to bring sidewalk fans in.

Agreed. Winning brings detached alumni back as well.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Agreed. Winning brings detached alumni back as well.

It would bring me back to donating significantly. Glad I took 2019 off after 22 years. The coaching performance was so poor I will take 2020 off as well.

 

[WreckinGT]

I think it is naive to think we cant pay 6-7 million if we are playing at a 10-2 level.

This is a crazy thread. Some are saying we can't get rid of CGC because we can't afford the buyout, others are saying we can easily double is salary if we wanted to.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The coastal is full of teams that are basically even. The team that usually wins it has 2 things to point to - 1) stellar playmaking QB (this year it was Perkins at UVA), and 2) wins the close ACC games and turnover battle.

If, however, GT’s recruiting continues to take steps forward then we’ll get to the point of having more room for error. Our defense is gonna be loaded with talent and as much as we whine about Patenude we should be praising Thacker. Our defense will win us a lot of games. I was thoroughly impressed with our defense who was massively depleted up front. Our offense was historically bad but having no QB and a depleted OLine will do that. We will be muuuuuch I proved on offense next year.