Pelton

[Deltajacket]

Our D-Line coach seems very well liked by the players and highly thought of as a recruiter. He developed a few NFL players along the way but so far the product here seems underwhelming. He was brought here by Roof after working together at AU. The defense there pretty much stunk with top level talent. They won only because of Cam and the Malzahn offense. Our scheme on the DLine seems so basic. Is it the overall system, the DL coaching, or the inability of our veteran players to handle it? I'm curious what some of our former players and insiders think. Is Coach Pelton getting it done?

 

[Blumpkin Souffle]

If he is getting the best out of the layers we have then he should stay. You can polish a turd....

 

[Andewa]

I'd like to know this as well, but I think he needs a few years. IMO, we should give CTR/MP 4-5 years before really judging their performance.

 

[alagold]

Just for fun looked up DEF run stats for last few yrs
'14 168 yds per game on down 116 ,144,161,170

in 09 152, then 120,115,105 104 --that is a big jump--we have not gotten the DL recruits--really ever since PJ has been here-- his biggest shortcoming to me (and this doesn't show the poor pass rush)

 

[Boomergump]

Just stop and think about the results we got with last year's depth at that position group. Now, let it sink in. I have never coached a DL before, so I will stop short of characterizing his performance based on my knowledge. Take a look at how Gotsis has progressed, every year since he has been in the program. He is a completely different player now. My GUT tells me Pelton is doing a good job.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

No no no.....here is the issue obviously. Coach Pelton takes smart pills before coaching Gotsis. But he takes stupid pills before coaching the rest of the D line.

I know I'm being snarky but come on. Auburn had some damn good talent on that D line. Did they stone everyone? No. Did the fan base pull their hair out at times? Yes. Did their D face some damn good offenses? Yes. Did the D do a helluva job vs Oregon's vaunted O? Yeah they did. Aubie probably doesn't win several of those games without Cam. Aubie D stoned Bama in 2nd half to help forge that Cam comeback. The D helped win that natty.

 

[Deltajacket]

There's a reason I asked former players and insiders to comment. I'm curious what guys who've been in the system think about his ability to develop lesser talent. Pelton has developed players. No question. But I'm asking were those guys that would have developed anyway? We used to turn 2 star talent into NFL players. That doesn't seem to happen much anymore. Gotsis was only ranked so low because nobody had ever heard of him.

 

[DvilleJacket]

My fear was Pelton was going to improve the line and be gone to a bigger program. Not the case so far.

 

[33jacket]

Pelton is the least of our issues on that side of the ball.

 

[Boomergump]

There's a reason I asked former players and insiders to comment. I'm curious what guys who've been in the system think about his ability to develop lesser talent. Pelton has developed players. No question. But I'm asking were those guys that would have developed anyway? We used to turn 2 star talent into NFL players. That doesn't seem to happen much anymore. Gotsis was only ranked so low because nobody had ever heard of him.

When Gotsis got here, he was an athletic big man who could run but had less than desireable skills on the inside. He stood straight up at the snap and had no idea about using his hands to shed blocks, leverage, or any pass rush moves. That kid has worked hard to transform his body AND he has learned a ton about the game. I don't know who has worked with Adam to develop him, but I feel sure it didn't happen in a vacuum. I suspect Pelton had a huge role to play. Gotsis would not have been a 4 star kid had he been in America at the time. Maybe, had he grown up here, he may have been further along, but that is another issue all together.

Kallon probably has not come along, as hoped, but he HAS improved a good bit. The guys at DE are a work in progress.

I have absolutely no first hand knowledge Delta, and in that sense I don't blame you for calling on former players. They would know better than I.

 

[GTonTop88]

When Gotsis got here, he was an athletic big man who could run but had less than desireable skills on the inside. He stood straight up at the snap and had no idea about using his hands to shed blocks, leverage, or any pass rush moves. That kid has worked hard to transform his body AND he has learned a ton about the game. I don't know who has worked with Adam to develop him, but I feel sure it didn't happen in a vacuum. I suspect Pelton had a huge role to play. Gotsis would not have been a 4 star kid had he been in America at the time. Maybe, had he grown up here, he may have been further along, but that is another issue all together.

Kallon probably has not come along, as hoped, but he HAS improved a good bit. The guys at DE are a work in progress.

I have absolutely no first hand knowledge Delta, and in that sense I don't blame you for calling on former players. They would know better than I.

Do you see Gotsis as a 3-4 DE on the next level? I don't see him as a DT.

 

[33jacket]

There's a reason I asked former players and insiders to comment. I'm curious what guys who've been in the system think about his ability to develop lesser talent. Pelton has developed players. No question. But I'm asking were those guys that would have developed anyway? We used to turn 2 star talent into NFL players. That doesn't seem to happen much anymore. Gotsis was only ranked so low because nobody had ever heard of him.

delta, chan's staff did a awesome job at high school talent evaluation. You can't believe or trust stars. Its full of CRAP. I would say Pauls staff has not hit on defensive recruits at all, but as important has yet to run a true system, they can recruit a certain type of player too they identify with. This is why Tenutas system was awesome. Much like Pauls offensive system, they knew exactly what type of kid they needed at each spot and recruited to it. So they could blossom. You can't stick a big cover two CB into a man scheme and expect him to be good there too as he is in cover 2. Its why in the nfl draft they talk about this. He is a cover 2 corner....etc...

everyone says chan had one good recruiting year. Ok, that may be....but before that year ever existed that 2006 roster WAS FLAT STACKED. Something like 11 NFL players on the starting 22 maybe more. And that could not be more of in indictment to his coaching. That teams should not have lost more than 1 game. Calvin, tashard choice, Mike Cox, Andrew Gardner, Cord Howard, Mike Matthews All NFL offensive players and starters. 6 on offense. Defense, Vance Walker, Daryl Richard, Mike Johnson, Joe Anoia, Wheeler, Guyton, 6 on D...all except Joe with his Cancer were NFL players and I didn't even put in guys due to injury that didn't have a chance like Adamm Oliver.

this isn't a chan comparison, as Paul IMO is a FAR better head ball coach. So I am not making it that. But growing the 2 stars starts at good high school evaluation. We have done it on a smaller scale. Jemea Thomas. PJ Davis...but we haven't done it on the lines like we have in the past...

That team was stacked. And it was some recruiting of stars, but alot of GREAT system matching. Poor coaching killed that team. Man if paul had a defense like that....

I think paul is now doing a good job at system matching on offense....but...

Paul hasn't had a defensive system at tech yet. Groh I guess was the closest....but way too big of a shift in what we need talent wise to be successful in it.

 

[33jacket]

Do you see Gotsis as a 3-4 DE on the next level? I don't see him as a DT.

he is totally a SDE or 3-4 DE yes....

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I think it's a fallacy to say "that team shouldn't have lost more than one game." Other teams had NFL talent also.

I can't think of any program that goes out looking for cover 2 corners in high school to "fit their system". Everyone is going out there trying to find the best all around db they can find. Then develop them the best they can depending on growth etc. I think that is by and large true of most position groups.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Just for fun looked up DEF run stats for last few yrs
'14 168 yds per game on down 116 ,144,161,170

in 09 152, then 120,115,105 104 --that is a big jump--we have not gotten the DL recruits--really ever since PJ has been here-- his biggest shortcoming to me (and this doesn't show the poor pass rush)

Since the days of Bubba Smith defensive linemen are the toughest for any school to recruit. Top talent is rare to start with and everybody wants them. We are lucky to get the good ones that we have landed.

 

[33jacket]

I think it's a fallacy to say "that team shouldn't have lost more than one game." Other teams had NFL talent also.

I can't think of any program that goes out looking for cover 2 corners in high school to "fit their system". Everyone is going out there trying to find the best all around db they can find. Then develop them the best they can depending on growth etc. I think that is by and large true of most position groups.

LOL do you know what an example is? I was giving an NFL example of finding talent to match a system. Maybe early in the morning. That was an NFL example to make my point. And if you don't think coaches try to match talent to their scheme you are smoking something dude. A heavy man press team like Bud foster ABSOLUTELY recruits a certain type of CB. And always has lighter rush ends. Tenuta absolutely looked for lighter skilled LB's vs heavy pluggers.

and yes, its my opinion that team should not have lost 1 game, with that schedule, a below avg GA team, blew out VT and should have beat ND at home. That is a one loss team. Inexcusable to lose to wake in that game.

 

[33jacket]

by the way. I want to add this. I think that is the issue at tech, is they do what whiskey clear says...just find someone who is good... We don't have a system we recruit to with the finer details like TCU does, VT does etc. So that is my point...sure, if you have a great recruit you take him....but you do it within how you think they would fit; otherwise why take him?

you know, we just don't recruit great TE's, because there is no spot.

Some positions it doesn't matter. DT...you find the best you can. Sure...but some of the finer spots it can matter. CB, OLB, MLB, sometimes, not always, but S. Some systems ask the S to cover man more...you wouldn't recruit strong down S then....So for me, I don't see us doing enough of that on D today. Thats my point. And I think it hurts a tad...because we can't just get the top talent at all positions and go win physically.

I would love to adopt more of a D system...we can do better matching talent to...i think you need that at our school

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

VT typically uses lighter rush ends. Bama typically targets bigger linebackers. One team might favor speed a bit over size and power. Another might go the opposite way. By and large they go after the best all around player they can find at those spots and then develop them. Easier for Bama as they get the pick of the litter and can grab kids who have already developed early quite often. I'm not arguing altogether with ya so don't get your tail in a twist. I just think you are overstating the case.

I followed Tech back then too. Didn't see the evidence of the system targeting you expressed. We started getting better players. On the Dline and at LB. Those guys made the system better because they had more talent.

 

[33jacket]

VT typically uses lighter rush ends. Bama typically targets bigger linebackers. One team might favor speed a bit over size and power. Another might go the opposite way. By and large they go after the best all around player they can find at those spots and then develop them. Easier for Bama as they get the pick of the litter and can grab kids who have already developed early quite often. I'm not arguing altogether with ya so don't get your tail in a twist. I just think you are overstating the case.

I followed Tech back then too. Didn't see the evidence of the system targeting you expressed. We started getting better players. On the Dline and at LB. Those guys made the system better because they had more talent.

guyton 2 star. wheeler 2 star...no dude...we matched and developed. Oliver 2 star, Walker 2 star up until maybe the last week when we and VT offered then the services may have called him 3star. But he wasn't. these guys were unheard of....again...i think you are going too much the other way too. Anoai, hardly heard of too...we did a nice job recruiting to our system

Tenuta loved cover 3. So his S was typically rangey and long. Smart. His CBs had to play well in backstep facing the ball. He had a SS that had to play well in a box...so we looked for more phsical SS....

Again, I think you are underestimating this to a degree. Everyone sees offensive recruiting to a system and says AH HA!!!! But it should and can happen on the D side too...

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Your last post has merit. I think we can do better than we gave in those regards some. Sitting on the outside looking in though...I'm not sure it's fair to say we ain't trying to do just that.