Pelton is out . .

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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I put a ton of stock into a player's success or lack thereof into good or bad coaching. If the coaching doesn't really matter then why do we have them or pay them? We just need Johnson on offense and someone to call blitzes on defense and 8 recruiters by your logic.

Also, the whole argument about only people at practice know anything - hogwash. We get 12 litmus tests every year. Defensive secondary has consistently had some of the most athletic talent on the team. And what else is there EXCEPT for on the field results? You sound like Johnson saying that the kids didn't run the right play. Well gosh coach, I wonder why? Either they were confused (coaches fault), didn't know the play based on the call (coaches fault) or didn't care enough to take it seriously (coaches fault).

The truth is I don't care what the heck the coaches do. Have the kids do yoga, play Xbox, run until the puke, it really does not matter. What matters is W's. Period. Johnson can fly the whole team and staff to Brazil and they learn Jiu Jitsu and by golly if we win more games then awesome.

Here's an argument I AM willing to accept: I don't know how much of our secondary play was dictated by Roof or not, especially in terms of depth at the snap.

What I do see is a bunch of guys back there who often don't take good angles to tackle, don't use the sideline as an extra defender very well, and consistently miscommunicate and have coverage breakdowns. That's coaching. I don't see guys who are too slow or can't jump or rotate their hips. Again, how much of that is Speed versus Roof? No clue.

Ultimately, other than McCollum it wouldn't be a bad idea to me to clean house on most of the staff offense and defense because we just aren't getting it done ANYwhere. The offense was mediocre to bad in parts. The defense was a conundrum in that they did do a lot more of what we asked for in terms of stops/punts . . . except when it mattered and we really needed to have it.

So, my question to you is: if coaches don't impact a player's development or lack there of, what does? And if you can't grade a coach based on field results, how do you grade one?

Fat lot of good it does us if the team practices like Bama during the week and then plays like 2017 Georgia Tech in the game. I submit that MAYBE, different coaches will have different expectations and performance metrics during the week of practice, which could hopefully lead to improved performance on the weekend.

Best point you made in this post was, I quote “I don’t know.”

You should take that more to heart though. You don’t know how much Roof affected Speed. You don’t know how much Speed affected Roof.

As for results...to take an extreme. Put a team of middle schoolers, coached by Saban and staff, play them against Clemson...then tell me how good Saban and staff are based on “results.”

Yeah....you don’t know. For the record neither do I. Difference is I don’t pretend to.
 

wreckrod

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
427
Best point you made in this post was, I quote “I don’t know.”

You should take that more to heart though. You don’t know how much Roof affected Speed. You don’t know how much Speed affected Roof.

As for results...to take an extreme. Put a team of middle schoolers, coached by Saban and staff, play them against Clemson...then tell me how good Saban and staff are based on “results.”

Yeah....you don’t know. For the record neither do I. Difference is I don’t pretend to.
lol I guess I'll have to start using the ignore feature more. Have a nice day
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
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6,372
For coaches, on the field results are the most important factor. Grades are nice too, but it's not what they're paid for. That's just reality.

As a former athlete in a different sport that played at a pretty high level, I can vouch that coaching makes a huge difference in a player's success. Sometimes a player doesn't realize the affect a coach had until the player has moved on, but I can assure you that every coach I had affected my on the field performance; whether positive or negative.
Actually, they are paid to graduate players. The APR tracks such. So "grades", to the point they qualify.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
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6,372
....
Also, the whole argument about only people at practice know anything - hogwash. We get 12 litmus tests every year. Defensive secondary has consistently had some of the most athletic talent on the team. And what else is there EXCEPT for on the field results? You sound like Johnson saying that the kids didn't run the right play. Well gosh coach, I wonder why? Either they were confused (coaches fault), didn't know the play based on the call (coaches fault) or didn't care enough to take it seriously (coaches fault)....I don't lay claim to football authority but played enough to know every single example here is not necessarily coaching. When bodies are flying, the headhunters are out, and the clock is ticking sometimes even good players well coached have occasion to be confused. Even panic.


...What I do see is a bunch of guys back there who often don't take good angles to tackle, don't use the sideline as an extra defender very well, and consistently miscommunicate and have coverage breakdowns. That's coaching. I don't see guys who are too slow or can't jump or rotate their hips. ... I think it fair to ask the basis for what amounts to expert knowledge in analyzing the defensive problems when, apparently, the coaches paid to do such things could not.

. The offense was mediocre to bad in parts. ... Now, here is Basil Fawlty's triumph of the bleeding obvious. I would amend "in parts" to "mostly", though.


Fat lot of good it does us if the team practices like Bama during the week and then plays like 2017 Georgia Tech in the game. I submit that MAYBE, different coaches will have different expectations and performance metrics during the week of practice, which could hopefully lead to improved performance on the weekend.... or not.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,486
Just find it very hard to believe the entire defense is roofs fault. You'e only as good as your assistants

Or talent. But I hear ya. And I have no idea what the problems are or fixes needed are. But neither do the brilliant critics.

There is an awful lot of “coach so and so is horrible and needs to go” talk. And claims that proper fundamentals aren’t being taught. And absolutely no facts to back up these arguments but people believe these notions deeply regardless.

It’s like the “coach only plays his favorites and not his best players” nonsense. Ultimately CPJ will be / is being judged by results. Despite institutional barriers and hurdles. And I’m sure he’s aware of this fact. It’s nonsense to think he keeps coaches on staff for their golf game or drinking buddy time or whatever. If CPJ wants someone on staff it’s more likely because he sees value in their presence.
 

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
Actually, they are paid to graduate players. The APR tracks such. So "grades", to the point they qualify.
I’m aware of APR. I stated that on the field performance is the most important factor. Coaches are paid for on the field performance; APR is usually handled by compliance. CPJ is not in study hall tutoring players in calculus.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
It certainly can’t be the players. (y)
There apparently was some team problems this year, attitude problems it seems, and maybe this new guy can help define and correct some of that. One never knows. One of Clemson's WRs (Cain) allowed an interception by Alabama because he was not fighting for the ball. Just kind of waited and the Alabama guy went all out for it. Interesting to see his place on the roster in spring practice because Venables is not somebody to play with.
 
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There apparently was some team problems this year, attitude problems it seems, and maybe this new guy can help define and correct some of that. One never knows. One of Clemson's WRs (Cain) allowed an interception by Alabama because he was not fighting for the ball. Just kind of waited and the Alabama guy went all out for it. Interesting to see his place on the roster in spring practice because Venables is not somebody to play with.
Venables is the DC. Why would the performance of a WR fall under his duties?
 
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