Paul Johnson's job

[33jacket]

Does anybody disagree with this? I am still a pretty big Johnson supporter and I, of course, agree with this. The real question is, money aside (which is a real thing), what are the chances the next coach would do better? If you told me that we could repeat the last 8 years in the next 8 (3ACC championship game appearances, 2 orange bowl appearances, winning ACC record, 4 mediocre seasons, 1 terrible season), I would take that again in a heartbeat (the UGA record being my only real complaint). I actually think odds are low another coach would do that (though it is possible). The question for me is, can Johnson repeat that. Maybe, maybe not. I was hoping for a little better this year, but the year is not over. If he gets this back to 7 wins, I don't see any reason we can't have a 9-10 win season in the next couple of years.

how can we do MUCH better? we have had 3 coaches in the past 20 years. All the same records essentially.

Let me remind you. GOL staff was outstanding. The best in football in hindsight. On it
- Fridge
- Bill Obrien
- GOL
- Glen Spencer
- at one point randy edsall

Yet, we still only had 8 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins.

Point here is...there were a ton of good to great coaches at tech the past 20 years. Yet...the records are the same.

So we can do a whole lot worse for sure

But we can only do marginally better too. Not a WHOLE lot better in the current setup.

CPJ is .580. I think he can do .625 here consistently with tweaks he can control. Beyond that I am not sure we can get there....Paul can win 8-9 a year here consistently I believe. As-is....

 

[Vespidae]

Georgia isn't even going to be best in the SEC East because Tennessee is overtaking them and Florida will overtake UGAG also. I hope the delusional Dawg fans enjoy being 3rd in the SEC East.

I believe the Dawgs are going to get very frustrated. They traded in MR for Kirby under the belief that Kirby will deliver an "Alabama" style football program. OK, he's done a few Saban-esque things like restricting the media and things like that.

But ... without getting into the match up game, the basics are this: UGA does not demand anywhere near the religious fervor that Alabama football does. And I just don't think they ever will. No matter who is coaching. The expectations at Bama are just that much higher. I think UGA will field good teams (they have talent), but they face very tough SEC competition ... and already have the facilities, resources and money.

Honestly, I think they took a step back getting rid of MR. He was a solid coach who ran a very good program. It's a pity that isn't rewarded much anymore.

 

[VolJacket]

I believe the Dawgs are going to get very frustrated. They traded in MR for Kirby under the belief that Kirby will deliver an "Alabama" style football program. OK, he's done a few Saban-esque things like restricting the media and things like that.

But ... without getting into the match up game, the basics are this: UGA does not demand anywhere near the religious fervor that Alabama football does. And I just don't think they ever will. No matter who is coaching. The expectations at Bama are just that much higher. I think UGA will field good teams (they have talent), but they face very tough SEC competition ... and already have the facilities, resources and money.

Honestly, I think they took a step back getting rid of MR. He was a solid coach who ran a very good program. It's a pity that isn't rewarded much anymore.

I think the very best UGAG will do is the level they were under Jim Donnan had them from 1996-2000. I believe that is the ceiling for UGAG under Kirby Goff.

 

[GTRX7]

how can we do MUCH better? we have had 3 coaches in the past 20 years. All the same records essentially.

Let me remind you. GOL staff was outstanding. The best in football in hindsight. On it
- Fridge
- Bill Obrien
- GOL
- Glen Spencer
- at one point randy edsall

Yet, we still only had 8 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins.

Point here is...there were a ton of good to great coaches at tech the past 20 years. Yet...the records are the same.

So we can do a whole lot worse for sure

But we can only do marginally better too. Not a WHOLE lot better in the current setup.

CPJ is .580. I think he can do .625 here consistently with tweaks he can control. Beyond that I am not sure we can get there....Paul can win 8-9 a year here consistently I believe. As-is....

That staff is crazy. Don't forget to add to that, Joe Hamilton, one of the top 5 players to probably ever play here (certainly top 2 QB).

 

[Vespidae]

I think the very best UGAG will do is the level they were under Jim Donnan had them from 1996-2000.

You may be right. Dooley's last years was 0.666 and 0.715 overall; Donnan was what, 0.675? And Mark Richt ... 0.741.

I think in a few years they will realize, they probably traded down with Kirby.

 

[Vespidae]

That staff is crazy.

This is my point! What would Paul Johnson's record look like if he had a really strong staff? I think that's the weakest part of his approach. He has an ok staff ... but not a great staff.

 

[AE 87]

I think we can do a whole lot worse than CPJ a lot easier than we can do a bit better. Up until the last couple of years, our offense has been very, very good. I don't have any answers on our D, but our attrition hasn't helped, and I'm not sure about coordination.

That being said, I think one of the biggest factors in recent struggles has been the improvement in our conference. When you already have one of the 5 winningest active coaches, it's hard to know where to look for a step up.

 

[VolJacket]

This is my point! What would Paul Johnson's record look like if he had a really strong staff? I think that's the weakest part of his approach. He has an ok staff ... but not a great staff.

I like Paul but i think he'll be gone after 2017 if GT doesn't have a strong season(8-9 wins) in 2017. I think GT has the potential to have a very good 2017 but GT also has the potential to putter around to another 5-7 win season.

 

[YlJacket]

how can we do MUCH better? we have had 3 coaches in the past 20 years. All the same records essentially.

Let me remind you. GOL staff was outstanding. The best in football in hindsight. On it
- Fridge
- Bill Obrien
- GOL
- Glen Spencer
- at one point randy edsall

Yet, we still only had 8 wins, 7 wins, 9 wins.

Point here is...there were a ton of good to great coaches at tech the past 20 years. Yet...the records are the same.

So we can do a whole lot worse for sure

But we can only do marginally better too. Not a WHOLE lot better in the current setup.

CPJ is .580. I think he can do .625 here consistently with tweaks he can control. Beyond that I am not sure we can get there....Paul can win 8-9 a year here consistently I believe. As-is....

Since everyone around here likes to go back in time, if BoB were available next year - as it seems likely he will be - would you take him over CPJ?
yes I know he likely would get an NFL co-ordinator or second HC look but if you play the "don't step off the ledge until you know where you are going" game then this is at least an intellectually interesting alternative.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

In fact, we could do worse than CPJ in terms of %, # of ACCCG, being as close as regards point differential in games (certainly no 51-7 losses last 8 years) and things like that.

But we have GOT to get more competitive on several levels.

We have GOT to do better than 2-7 vs um, 2-6 vs ugag & vt, 1 of last 3 to cu. It is imperative to do so in so many important areas of the program.

Sadly, despite the pluses of the system, CPJ's O is a big knock against us in recruiting on both sides of the ball. It vastly decreases the number of qualified S/As who will consider us.

 

[AE 87]

In fact, we could do worse than CPJ in terms of %, # of ACCCG, being as close as regards point differential in games (certainly no 51-7 losses last 8 years) and things like that.

But we have GOT to get more competitive on several levels.

We have GOT to do better than 2-7 vs um, 2-6 vs ugag & vt, 1 of last 3 to cu. It is imperative to do so in so many important areas of the program.

Sadly, despite the pluses of the system, CPJ's O is a big knock against us in recruiting on both sides of the ball. It vastly decreases the number of qualified S/As who will consider us.

I have seen no evidence (besides anecdotally) to support that last sentence. Our recruiting has been on par if not better on average under CPJ than previous coach. Before that (and most of Gailey's time), we didn't have the APR to worry about.

 

[33jacket]

Since everyone around here likes to go back in time, if BoB were available next year - as it seems likely he will be - would you take him over CPJ?
yes I know he likely would get an NFL co-ordinator or second HC look but if you play the "don't step off the ledge until you know where you are going" game then this is at least an intellectually interesting alternative.

No. again. No. no one coach helps tech much more than paul in the current setup UNLESS they bring a GOL staff quality with them.

Then maybe they help tech. There is much more to it beyond that....

Paul himself is fine. Its been his staff choices and less than optimal recruiting that has killed him. If he fixes 2-3 staff members he can do 8-9 a year every year. He is not far off

 

[gtpi]

I've never been on the fire Paul Johnson train but I was wondering how long do you guys think our new AD will give him if we continue to lose. Not necessarily play poorly, but still lose.

imo

1. as long as he stays on the winning side of the ledger
2. doesnt get the program in any trouble
3. continues to graduate the players at the record pace he is doing

he should be retained. but hey... les miles is always an option for those of you who value winning above all else.

in my opinion the fans and the aa havent been doing all they can to help improve the wins and losses. all the coaches we have had over the years and we still hover around the 500 level should tell all of you that its not the x's and o's but the jimmy's and joes that is our biggest problem.

not sure how you can blame recruiting on cpj when it is a fact that the clemsons... the bamas... the tosu's all have recruiting staffs and budgets that dwarf our meager staff.

up until recently we had 2 on our staff if i remember right and we fired one for unethical behavior. we have recently had a YUGE increase in staff . going from 2 to 4. it would not surprise me at all to find out that we have the smallest recruiting staff in the acc. budget can not overcome a lack of staff as i see it.

there is no way given our curriculum and our entrance requirements that we can compete with staffs that number 20 ... 30+. our only hope is to recruit numbers and sign the fallout. a staff of 4 is just not going to get the job done going against 30 people. just aint gonna happen.

firing cpj would be a step backwards in my opinion.

didnt we have this same discussion right before we won the orange bowl? we can do it here we just need to make it feasible with the right players.

 

[gtpi]

No. again. No. no one coach helps tech much more than paul in the current setup UNLESS they bring a GOL staff quality with them.

Then maybe they help tech. There is much more to it beyond that....

Paul himself is fine. Its been his staff choices and less than optimal recruiting that has killed him. If he fixes 2-3 staff members he can do 8-9 a year every year. He is not far off

isnt his coaching staff contingent on the amount of money the aa budgets for salaries? same goes with the recruiting support staff. 4 just does not cut it imo.

im sure we could hire les miles as a d coordinator but would he coach here for peanuts? probably not. the only reason we have roof is because he is loyal to gt. no doubt he could be head coach elsewhere making more money.

 

[33jacket]

isnt his coaching staff contingent on the amount of money the aa budgets for salaries? same goes with the recruiting support staff. 4 just does not cut it imo.

im sure we could hire les miles as a d coordinator but would he coach here for peanuts? probably not. the only reason we have roof is because he is loyal to gt. no doubt he could be head coach elsewhere making more money.

Dude. Roof makes 750k a year. That is top 20 in all of ncaa football. We can do better. Les miles doesnt coach D ha.

Our OL coach makes almost 500k a year
That is top 5 or 10 in all of ncaa.

The fact is paul is our OC. His salary covers a coach and an OC.

We have budget to do better even as is

 

[VolJacket]

isnt his coaching staff contingent on the amount of money the aa budgets for salaries? same goes with the recruiting support staff. 4 just does not cut it imo.

im sure we could hire les miles as a d coordinator but would he coach here for peanuts? probably not. the only reason we have roof is because he is loyal to gt. no doubt he could be head coach elsewhere making more money.

I have a feeling when GT has to hire a new head football coach it's going to be an up and comer like Appalachian State head coach Scott Satterfield or Western Kentucky head coach Jeff Brohm.

 

[33jacket]

isnt his coaching staff contingent on the amount of money the aa budgets for salaries? same goes with the recruiting support staff. 4 just does not cut it imo.

im sure we could hire les miles as a d coordinator but would he coach here for peanuts? probably not. the only reason we have roof is because he is loyal to gt. no doubt he could be head coach elsewhere making more money.

Btw. I do agree 4 doesnt cut. Needs to be 9-12.

This part here is where the school can help the AA by participating in some AA salaries as school headcount. Not for these 9, but for others in the department

 

[Vespidae]

not sure how you can blame recruiting on cpj when it is a fact that the clemsons... the bamas... the tosu's all have recruiting staffs and budgets that dwarf our meager staff.

Tech (and by Tech, I mean the GTAA) currently budgets about $1.3MM for recruiting. If we have 4 staffers, then we're looking at about 900K for recruiting ... all in.

There are fixes for this sort of thing and it means working smarter. I do think the budget needs to be double that, but do some analysis on what HS programs are most likely to produce the kids we need and OWN THOSE SCHOOLS. There is enough talent in Georgia and Alabama to get us there if we can find it an nurture it. Most HS kids that I have talked to have never been exposed to Tech. We can easily make this happen with a better booster program and/or leveraging volunteer alumni. Augment that with targeted investments and we should be able to create a very efficient recruiting program.

If we try to match Alabama or Clemson, we're not going to get there. We have to outsmart them.

 

[smathis30]

TL; DR we have the same admissions standards for athletes as uga

http://investigations.myajc.com/football-admissions/

Y'all are seriously over estimating georgia tech's academic hurdles. Long story short, they don't exist. WE have the SAME barriers as uga. We both have to follow the same rules for the USOG. Our football teams SAT scores are only 20 points higher then UGA, and ~100 points higher than southern and state. The only difference is how many waivers we get for letting in academically inelgible people. Tech lets in around 5 a year, uga lets in 10. We could do more, but we don't.
.

 

[YlJacket]

Tech (and by Tech, I mean the GTAA) currently budgets about $1.3MM for recruiting. If we have 4 staffers, then we're looking at about 900K for recruiting ... all in.

There are fixes for this sort of thing and it means working smarter. I do think the budget needs to be double that, but do some analysis on what HS programs are most likely to produce the kids we need and OWN THOSE SCHOOLS. There is enough talent in Georgia and Alabama to get us there if we can find it an nurture it. Most HS kids that I have talked to have never been exposed to Tech. We can easily make this happen with a better booster program and/or leveraging volunteer alumni. Augment that with targeted investments and we should be able to create a very efficient recruiting program.

If we try to match Alabama or Clemson, we're not going to get there. We have to outsmart them.

Your logic makes perfect sense except for the fact that things like leveraging volunteer alumni to introduce Tech to HS Athletic programs violates NCAA regs. At least the way I understand them. I have been given the lecture for trying to push a school where my daughter was an athlete and was told basically I can't open my mouth about it as far as anything formally associated with the school.

It would be great if Tech had a better program to make itself more known academically with certain schools with a side benefit that athletics could be part of the presentation.