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Pastner vs Crean

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Basketball' started by joehamiltonfan14, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    And that changes anything I said how?
     
  2. JacketOff

    JacketOff Helluva Engineer

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    You read waaayyyy too much into what I said regarding recruiting rankings. I actually used 247, not rivals, and it lists Georgia as having 2 4 stars in this class. KD Johnson is rated a 3 star by 247 composite, but his original 247 score is a 4 star. It’s the difference in about 20 spots in the national player rankings, and if you want to get specific Gigiberia is number 124 nationally, and the lowest rated 4 star according to 247. But I apologize if I provided inaccurate information due to different sites using different scores.

    Going back to Alvarado, Banks, and Usher. I’ll go ahead and count all of them as Pastner recruited 4 stars. That gets PJ up to (5) 4 stars and (0) 5 stars in 5 classes. I’ll take Johnson out of Georgia’s conversation so now Crean has (5) 4 stars and (1) 5 star in 2 years. Crean still has the advantage.

    You mentioned how Georgia has a definite NBA draft pick in their starting 5, possibly another pick, and 2 seniors. Then you brought up the fact that the freshman Crean recruited aren’t playing. Where and when are they supposed to play? Georgia has 6 RSCI Top 100 players on its roster, 3 are freshmen including Edwards obviously. Tech has 1, Devoe.

    Georgia is losing a lot more production this year than Tech will. Tech basically returns all of its production minus Banks. Next year will provide a much clearer picture on who is the better coach. Crean with a lineup of mostly inexperienced underclassmen, Pastner with a lineup of upperclassmen. As of now Crean looks like the better coach. Might that change in the coming years? Of course. I’m more than willing to come back to this discussion after this season concludes, and we get a look at what happens on both sides next season. Until something changes though, I believe Georgia basketball is in a better position than Georgia Tech basketball is. If you don’t agree that’s fine, we’ll just agree to disagree.
     
  3. connell62

    connell62 Helluva Engineer Featured Member

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    The fact that you’re attempting to go to such great lengths to make such a strong argument for Crean is funny. You must really dislike Josh Pastner to advocate for that clown.
     
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  4. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    Huh? Brown, Camara, and Walton are all forwards on a team that is going extremely small due to a suspension to Ngumezi. Camara is actually getting significant minutes (20 per game) but he is hardly making much of an impact. Their top 5 players in mpg are 6-5, 6-9, 6-1, 5-10, and 6-3. So where would guys 6-6,6-7, or 6-8 get playing time? Really? You're entire argument centers around their 2019 class which had 5 forwards or centers that can't have much of an impact on a team that is otherwise very small. That argument is even weirder considering the freshman other than Edwards making an impact is Wheeler who plays guard which is where they already had the talent and depth.

    Maybe the rest of the class will develop, but it's silly to lean so heavy on recruiting rankings as if they are the be all end all when the majority of the class hasn't done anything of note, even when the team is in a position where you would expect someone to step up.

    Based on what exactly? He has a worse record and one recruiting class doesn't a coach make. Just ask Gregory and his 2012 class or Hewitt and his 2009 class. Man our program sure was on the up and up then. Even this year they lost big to Dayton and ASU and before their game against Memphis we may have been their best win. They haven't even gotten to conference play yet, and you're so sure they're on the way up because of one class that largely hasn't proven much and one upset? Come on.
     
  5. JacketOff

    JacketOff Helluva Engineer

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    I’m not advocating for anybody. I wouldn’t want Tom Crean to run the Georgia Tech basketball program. He comes along with just about as many negative connotations as Pastner does. But the guy won 20 games in the Big 10 four times. It’s very possible he’ll have a winning conference record this year and finish with 20 wins in the SEC. I’m not a fan of Pastner, but I do think he’s the best option Tech has right now and at least next year. Alvarado being out and Usher ineligible definitely affected the outcome of some games this year. But NC St. and UNC were also missing key players in those wins. Losing by 30 to Ball State and Syracuse at home is unacceptable and inexcusable, though. Losing to at least one mid-major team at home in a “buy game” every year in unacceptable. Not averaging at least 1 (high school) 4 star recruit at an ACC school in a huge basketball market is unacceptable. I know with CJPs “get old stay old” strategy Tech will never be at the top of recruiting rankings. It’s literally not possible because of the one and done mentality at the blue bloods and how singing large classes skew rankings, kinda what Crean did at Georgia last year. Losing 5 in a row (4 under JP) to Georgia is unacceptable. Not making the tournament and only appearing in the NIT twice across a decade is unacceptable.

    Of course not all of that is Pastner’s fault. A lot of it is the fault of the GTAA and the Institute’s mentality itself. With all of that being said, I’m done talking about Tom Crean. I won’t say another word about him. I hope like hell Tech turns back into the basketball program it was and should be, and I hope it happens under Pastner. Logistics wise though, Georgia is going to take some of that ability now. They have the money to do so. Lotta basketball left on both sides. I’d love for someone to take my messages and shove them down my throat next year after Tech dominates Georgia up and down the floor at McCamish and wins 25 games while Georgia fails to win 10. Next year Tech will be “old.” We’ll see how it works out. G’day gentlemen.
     
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  6. TooTall

    TooTall Helluva Engineer

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    Aren't yall forgetting that Pastner beating Crean pretty much put ink on paper that got Crean fired from IU?
     
  7. Buzzbomb

    Buzzbomb Helluva Engineer

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    I don’t think we can forget his 21-16 winning season. The argument has been that he won with CBGs players. It was an NIT game.
     
  8. kg01

    kg01 Get-Bak! Coach Featured Member

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    I mean, it's a pretty useless discussion. But ... well, let's just call Pastner the Apollo Creed in this current scenario ...

    [​IMG]

    *sigh* ... but, if we must discuss particulars, the fact that they're ahead of us can easily change (with the right .. change) so it's not worth discussing.
     
  9. THWG16

    THWG16 Helluva Engineer

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    Just saying what they've done to us head to head is most important, I don't care what they've done vs ole miss
     
  10. THWG16

    THWG16 Helluva Engineer

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    Why are yall saying this is a useless discussion? I agree whole heartedly, no excuse for us to lose to them like this, and i'm tired of hearing they spend more $$ than us and care more, if that's the case then we need to email our butt's off to the administration and get something changed. We have history, tradition, they don't. Pastner is trouble on the court and off, and the fact that some of yall are excited about a recruiting class that's ranked 37th in the nation is not good.
     
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  11. kg01

    kg01 Get-Bak! Coach Featured Member

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    Because it's not worth discussing? I mean, you're stating facts. I agree with you.

    But it's like a fat chick sitting on the couch eating a bucket o' ice cream, messaging all her friends that she hates being fat. Well, until you put down the bucket, I don't wanna hear the complaints. It's useless. Not gonna change.
     
  12. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    Except it isn't. Get over the little brother syndrome. If Pastner went 2-18 in conference but beat UGA you'd still have your panties in a twist so stop acting like that's the be all end all when it isn't even close.
     
  13. RyanS12

    RyanS12 Helluva Engineer

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    Dammit. You’re right!
    Looks like Josh can only blame himself with that one too. Lol
     
  14. JacketOff

    JacketOff Helluva Engineer

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    You’re absolutely right. Beating UGA doesn’t make a season great by itself. But is it okay to have “panties in a twist” when Tech goes 6-12 in conference and loses to UGA. It’s not about “little brother syndrome.” If Tech was winning 8+ conference games consistently, winning 20+ overall and going to the tourney at least once every couple of years the UGA game would be pretty irrelevant. Of course there would be some rumblings about how we should be beating Georgia, but if the program was otherwise successful it wouldn’t raise more than a few eyebrows. As it stands though, Georgia’s program is more successful than Tech. Over the decade Georgia had more 20 win seasons, more NCAAT appearances, more NIT appearances, more winning seasons, more winning conference records, and dominated the in state rivalry. If Tech had dominated the rivalry but still couldn’t field tourney teams, it wouldn’t matter. Or if Tech was more successful outside of the rivalry it wouldn’t matter. So not only is Tech being dominated in the rivalry, it’s being dominated in nearly every statistic (including recruiting). To act like it’s no big deal in terms of perception is way off base in my opinion.
     
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  15. GTJackets

    GTJackets Helluva Engineer

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    We don't complain about the things we have the power to change but choose not to.
     
  16. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    Except the discussion is not UGA vs GT. It's Crean vs Pastner. Yeah, UGA has had a better decade mostly because Fox had more success than Gregory. Neither of them are at their respective schools. For the current coaches, the topic at hand, the game has been meaningless because neither year has either team merited any kind of interest outside the fanbase. Them beating us certainly doesn't offset them having a significantly worse year last year nor does it have much impact this year unless one or both teams actually go on to prove something. If anything, the fact that UGA has been better for a decade and Crean still had the worst year of any during that time span should mean something, but it obviously doesn't. Wins and losses only matter when he wins or we lose to you.

    Also the bold is just ridiculous. So the game matters a lot because we both suck and lost those games. Had we won those games and everything else stayed the same, those games would suddenly not matter? You're flat out admitting to giving credit to a UGA coach that you would deny our coach if the situations were reversed. That is ridiculous.
     
  17. Buzzbomb

    Buzzbomb Helluva Engineer

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    Pastner vs. Crean....
    Which one is closest/nearest to be relieved of his duties?
     
  18. JacketOff

    JacketOff Helluva Engineer

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    You’re right, what you bolded was very poorly worded on my part. What I was trying to say there was that the UGA game isn’t the end all be all of GT basketball. If you change nothing about GTs records over the past 4 years besides the results of the UGA games, Pastner is still on the hot seat. Those 4 wins just become the highlight of JPs tenure here. If Tech makes it to the NCAAT once or twice across those 4 years but still loses all 4 UGA games I would say Tech was still in good shape. But he hasn’t beat Georgia, and he’s only made it to the NIT once. Even in Crean’s miserable first year he managed to beat Tech in Atlanta, and this year he’s sitting pretty to at least be on the bubble come tourney time. I still want to see how things play out this year, and especially next year. If CJP and Tech win 7 more conference games and get to .500, and Georgia falls flat on its face and goes 2-16 in the SEC again I’d be more than happy. JPs roster is about get old, I want to see if it can stay old and win old
     
  19. lv20gt

    lv20gt Helluva Engineer

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    Make no mistake, there is plenty to criticize Pastner for. I just see no reason to fluff up the UGA coach to make that point. The fact is as of right now Crean still has a worse win% at UGA than Pastner has at GT. Last year was the worst year for UGA basketball since 04-05. The best coaching job either coach has pulled at their current school was Pastner's year 1 and the worst coaching job was Crean's year 1. This year they have one quality win and haven't even reached conference play yet. There are probably a dozen coaches that would better make the point of the topic than Crean.

    Sorry, but the benefit of the doubt that is being given to Crean in this topic is what I would expect from UGA fans. Not from GT fans, no matter your opinion on our current coach. Now maybe he cruises through SEC play, goes to the sweet sixteen, lands another huge class in '21 and this topic is justified, but you would think people would wait for that to happen before making this topic instead of when they beat an overrated Memphis team minus the biggest reason for their ranking. Hell Memphis is now ranked 21st and goes to play Wichita State on the road. There is a decent chance they aren't a top 25 team this time next week.
     
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  20. THWG16

    THWG16 Helluva Engineer

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    The little brother syndrome ? Are you serious ? We’re GT , we’re supposed to want & strive to beat them in everything , if you don’t care about beating those *****s you aren’t a true fan . Don’t get me wrong , if we went 1-29 every year with that 1 win being uga we wouldn’t keep a coach long , but we’d atleast have bragging rights. But it doesn’t matter what sport we’re playing if beating uga isn’t at the top of the list something is wrong ! Why did Donnan get fired ? He lost 3 in a row to us ? The old uga money insists they beat us is athletics & they take it serious
     

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