dressedcheeseside
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 14,212
Deion is all about Deion. No thanks. Goof Collins 2.0
Option Football
- Thread starter Eli
- Start date
JacketFan137
Banned
- Messages
- 2,536
the more y’all keep saying it doesn’t make this statement anywhere closer to being true
stigs02jrt
Banned
- Messages
- 88
Sigh...
Lot's of folks run option, there's a spectrum. Chadwell is closer to pure option than most, CPJ might be the definition of pure option. But no one is inventing anything here.
Chadwell had a magic season during Covid, does that really count? Didn't make the conference title game last year. That's dominant to you?
Deion actually had more 4 stars than tech in 2021. Deion outrecruited Chadwell in 2021 at an HBCU which is nuts. in 2022 Deion got more 5 stars than tech and more 4 stars than Chadwell. His average player rating was also higher than tech's in 2021 and 2022 which is nuts.
You keep talking about "regular basis", what is that?
leatherneckjacket
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 2,076
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
Whatever...
Who said anything about "inventing anything?" With whom are you arguing that someone is inventing something? I said it is silly to lump all option offenses into one bucket and then extrapolate that our recruiting with any future coach who runs any option offense will suck because CPJ ran the option and did not recruit well.
Chadwell is 30-4 across three seasons (not one). That is dominant. Continue to argue otherwise.
Deion has recruited one 5 star to a school with no academic standards or moral compunction. Whatever you think he can do at Tech is limited by our academic standards and how we operate our athletic department. We will never be a perennial top 10 recruiting program pulling multiple 5 stars every year with Deion, or anyone else for that matter.
Techster
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 18,211
Reminds me a LOT of what Friedgen use to do here. Lots of personnel packages and motion to get the defenses to declare...and Friedgen would just destroy them after the snap.
Now combine it with option and RPO...and it's just a masterful display of football chess. Not gonna lie, it has me pretty excited to think we can be watching that every Saturday on the Flats.
My worst nightmare is someone in the ACC getting smart and beating us to Chadwell. Nothing worse than watching a coach we could have hired demolishing us.
dressedcheeseside
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 14,212
Eh, but it’s a high school offense.
- Messages
- 668
CPJ recruited multiple pro wideouts and the highest-paid TE in the NFL. Malachi Carter is still listed as starter on depth chart five years later.
How much better was GC at recruiting? Not saying there was no improvement, but it seems the "CPJ can't recruit" thing has become a bigger thing in retrospect than it was when he was coaching.
How much better was GC at recruiting? Not saying there was no improvement, but it seems the "CPJ can't recruit" thing has become a bigger thing in retrospect than it was when he was coaching.
Techster
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 18,211
Yeah, but some on here want to win in the recruiting rankings. Not gonna lie, I thought we should have recruited better myself.
At the end of the day, winning on the field is the point. Recruiting rankings are nice to brag about with friends during the offseason, but if you're not winning on the field you've lost the plot.
jgtengineer
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 2,946
Lets nto forget McCollum was a CPJ commit that stayed through the transition in 2018
- Messages
- 668
I'll always take better recruits, yeah. CPJ certainly could have done more in the marketing department . That was possible without making any changes to the on-field product. Just not his style, unfortunately. We managed to pretty much always have a big play guy out wide every year, save 2012 (thank God for Orwin Smith and Godhigh), but more consistency in the interior of the line would have been nice.
I'd love to see some recruitniks break down recruiting rankings for the defenses in particular over last 15+ years. How did GC compare to CPJ compare to Chan?
I'd love to see some recruitniks break down recruiting rankings for the defenses in particular over last 15+ years. How did GC compare to CPJ compare to Chan?
BCJacket
Ramblin' Wreck
- Messages
- 754
Chadwell's offense is a lot like what I wished CPJ would've tried here at times. I could go back 7 years and find posts talking about it. CPJ had his (valid) reasons for sticking with the flexbone - speed of the mesh, balanced formation, 'girl you came with'. But I always wondered if 2013 had gone a little differently if he would've kept some of the 'wrinkles' he tried that season.
It felt like the biggest knock in recruiting was that the flexbone was so unique in P5, and so different from anything the NFL did, that it just didn't translate. But that was never a knock against Urban or Malzahn who were running a lot of option concepts at the same time - 2 back sets out of the gun, RPOs, QB runs. Their QBs won Heismans and got drafted. CPJ tried some of that in 2013. He actually had a lot of success with some of that in '08 and (less so) '09 before the flexbone was fully installed IIRC. CPJ was great at reading defenses and calling plays. He believed the flexbone was the best formation for what he wanted to do on the field. Some years, it looked unbeatable. I love watching that offense. But I also do believe it held the program back in some ways.
What Chadwell does seems like a happy medium. Option offense, but out of a lot of formations with a heavier emphasis on passing options. Things that a lot of NFL teams and 'big' programs are doing with dual threat QBs. Easier for recruits to see a pathway to the NFL in his offense than the flexbone. It also is a lot of fun to watch.
It felt like the biggest knock in recruiting was that the flexbone was so unique in P5, and so different from anything the NFL did, that it just didn't translate. But that was never a knock against Urban or Malzahn who were running a lot of option concepts at the same time - 2 back sets out of the gun, RPOs, QB runs. Their QBs won Heismans and got drafted. CPJ tried some of that in 2013. He actually had a lot of success with some of that in '08 and (less so) '09 before the flexbone was fully installed IIRC. CPJ was great at reading defenses and calling plays. He believed the flexbone was the best formation for what he wanted to do on the field. Some years, it looked unbeatable. I love watching that offense. But I also do believe it held the program back in some ways.
What Chadwell does seems like a happy medium. Option offense, but out of a lot of formations with a heavier emphasis on passing options. Things that a lot of NFL teams and 'big' programs are doing with dual threat QBs. Easier for recruits to see a pathway to the NFL in his offense than the flexbone. It also is a lot of fun to watch.
MWBATL
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,506
imho, any offense that works is a fun offense to watch.
As beautiful as CPJ's flexbone was when it was working, it was horrible to watch when it wasn't working.
LargeFO
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 3,399
Nah, he was 2020.
whitegoldsphinx
Ramblin' Wreck
- Messages
- 816
Looks no worse not working than the UVA game did this year. Any offense not working will bring out the boo birds. There were boos for the offense at the UVA game.
- Messages
- 8,093
- Location
- Augusta, Georgia
I think you mean Carter. McCollum was a CGC commit in 2020.
UgaBlows
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 6,792
Recruiting should be better, OL blocking is not predominantly cut blocking, QB is in various shotgun, pistol formations, uses a TE, tons of passing, RB lines up normally not hand in the dirt B-back style (which hurts RB recruiting) all the skill positions in Chadwell’s scheme translate to the NFL
- Messages
- 11,471
I mentioned it in another thread, but something I liked about both App State and Coastal Carolina is that they ran their offense very quickly post snap. Their players were moving to where they needed to block and/or hitting the hole quickly. On offense and defense the players were being decisive and playing fast.
CEB
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 2,534
that has been something I have noticed a lot in college football after watching CPJ's offense for so long... many offensive teams run plays that seem very SLOW developing. Defenders can get blocked and recover before the ball is out of the backfield. The offenses are reading so much that it sometimes seems like they aren't attacking. also, it seems like very few play calls get vertical as quickly as they should. There is a lot of "stretch" runs and a lot of swing passes, but nothing gets vertical in the middle of the field quickly. The closest thing in a lot of "current" offenses would be quick slant passes. Our dive read and midline used to get to the line almost as fast as DTs could get out or their stance. There doesn't seem to be anything similar in the zone read schemes.
...and I know this is a slippery slope, but some of that may be the shotgun too... perhaps? Shotgun lets QB see the field better and possibly get to the edge quicker, but it doesn't seem to get between the tackles quicker. I have seen all of the arguments that there is no difference in timing on the straight dive.... I'll concede that there is no difference just so we don't need to revisit, but it doesn't seem that anyone is running that type of play out of the gun. wonder why?
Deleted member 6494
Guest
Don't tell that to Darrell Royall of Texas or Barry Switzer of Oklahoma. In 1968-1970 Texas record was 30-3 using the Wishbone (TO). Barry Switzer used the wishbone (TO) exclusively at Oklahoma with a record of 83-9-2. Paul Johnson used the TO at Tech and fared better than some of our other coaches. It appears to be the coach using it rather than the system itsef.Eh, but it’s a high school offense.