On the OL, What is More Important....

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166
I feel like Shamire should be the playside guard. They pull MUCH less, and usually double team the 1-technique with the C and work to the second level. I don't like the idea of Shamire trying to pull and kick out an athletic D-End or 3-4 LB.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
If W/L record is your only measure, why do you conclude the offensive line is the problem?


During the 2008-2009 seasons every GT message board discussed how the OL was made up of converted TE's and walk-on's and how atrocious they performed, the buzz was wait till Johnson's recruits take over and the offense will be un-stoppable. Well Johnson and Sewak have had their hand picked recruits on the OL since 2010. Johnson's scheme begins with the OL executing their block then QB making the correct read, backs hit the hole.
Sewak has taken hand picked, seasoned OL, and coached up to perform below the level of the 08-09 rag tag OL. When was the last 4th qt "death march" against VT, Miami, Clemson, Georgia, etc; if the OL is not performing the QB and backs are exposed, so yes W L records directly effected by OL performance, especially in the 4th qt.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
What are you talking about? Where is anyone, head coach or not, doing this?

Johnson quoted the win loss trend line while discussing his disappointment with last years record, basically said we were bad but we were as good as the trend.
 

DCSS

Ramblin' Wreck
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Location
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During the 2008-2009 seasons every GT message board discussed how the OL was made up of converted TE's and walk-on's and how atrocious they performed, the buzz was wait till Johnson's recruits take over and the offense will be un-stoppable. Well Johnson and Sewak have had their hand picked recruits on the OL since 2010. Johnson's scheme begins with the OL executing their block then QB making the correct read, backs hit the hole.
Sewak has taken hand picked, seasoned OL, and coached up to perform below the level of the 08-09 rag tag OL. When was the last 4th qt "death march" against VT, Miami, Clemson, Georgia, etc; if the OL is not performing the QB and backs are exposed, so yes W L records directly effected by OL performance, especially in the 4th qt.

I would've thought our defense not stopping the opposing team's offense in the 4th quarter would have been the bigger issue, but I may be wrong.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
I would've thought our defense not stopping the opposing team's offense in the 4th quarter would have been the bigger issue, but I may be wrong.


Defense was a problem in 09, the offense held the ball and controlled the clock, opposition had fewer possessions.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
Like I said earlier I'm not playing the stat game, but if you want to take a look, see what the TOP is for FBS vs FCS in both years, opponent possessions in the 4th qt might be an interesting stat as well.
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
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2,061
Like I said earlier I'm not playing the stat game, but if you want to take a look, see what the TOP is for FBS vs FCS in both years, opponent possessions in the 4th qt might be an interesting stat as well.
There are too many factors to lay the blame on one group. I agree to an extent that the OL play has been sub par in spots, but to be honest they have not had the help on either side of the ball that they had in 08-09.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,580
During the 2008-2009 seasons every GT message board discussed how the OL was made up of converted TE's and walk-on's and how atrocious they performed, the buzz was wait till Johnson's recruits take over and the offense will be un-stoppable. Well Johnson and Sewak have had their hand picked recruits on the OL since 2010. Johnson's scheme begins with the OL executing their block then QB making the correct read, backs hit the hole.
Sewak has taken hand picked, seasoned OL, and coached up to perform below the level of the 08-09 rag tag OL. When was the last 4th qt "death march" against VT, Miami, Clemson, Georgia, etc; if the OL is not performing the QB and backs are exposed, so yes W L records directly effected by OL performance, especially in the 4th qt.
To some extent, I agree, but I think you have to factor injuries into this. We lost three prime OLs – McCoy, Alford, and Bailey – who should be contending this year. We had injuries all up and down the OL last year as well. I was surprised that we blocked as well as we did by mid-season. Then we lose Roberts.

Given the situation, I don't think Sewak – or Coach, for that matter – deserve much blame or much credit. We have six OLs coming in that everyone seems to think will do ok. Let's see how things develop. One regret = we didn't have the leeway we got from the Hill this year when Hall was coming to Tech. Having both him and Devine would be real nice right now.
 

alaguy

Helluva Engineer
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1,117
Ha, so true. I can't tell you how many plays I have seen would be tacklers let go, while we are running right past them looking for somebody downstream and finding nobody, especially leading plays out on the edge.


IF IF IF ervery OL actually TOUCHED a guy on every play we would probably be successful.Few long runs but more 5 yd carries.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
There are too many factors to lay the blame on one group. I agree to an extent that the OL play has been sub par in spots, but to be honest they have not had the help on either side of the ball that they had in 08-09.

I totally agree. There have been many problems since 09, special teams, strength and conditioning, DC, NCAA shoe gate, QB transfers, but the single area of concern that's has not been addressed is Sewak; hell our interim DC that quite possibly salvaged the 2011 season was turned down for promotion by Johnson now has a NC ring; all I'm saying is Sewak has gotten a pass from Johnson for no other reason than their buddies!
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
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12,967
Like I said earlier I'm not playing the stat game, but if you want to take a look, see what the TOP is for FBS vs FCS in both years, opponent possessions in the 4th qt might be an interesting stat as well.

TOP vs FBS
2013, 34:09:55 (3rd Nationally)
2009, 34:09:46 (3rd Nationally)

Yards/Carry 4th Qtr
2013, 5.45
2009, 4.70

Whether you want to support your claims with stats or something else, offensive line play, like all athletic performance, revolves around three issues in my mind: talent, coaching, and execution. I think we can agree that we've not yet attracted the amount of raw talent that we want. Perhaps, one of the most talented OL has been Morgan Bailey who couldn't stay healthy. Besides that we've had Uzzi, Finch, and Mason as stand-outs, it seems to me. Don't get me wrong. I have doubts about whether Sewak has been getting the most out of our guys, but it's not like the wheels have come off the bus, which is how your reactions have sounded to me. Our Defense has been about 57th in efficiency for the last few years while our offense has averaged in the top 25. I'm not sure an apocalyptic reaction to our any coaching on the offensive side of the ball is warranted unless you can provide some data.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,487
Like I said earlier I'm not playing the stat game, but if you want to take a look, see what the TOP is for FBS vs FCS in both years, opponent possessions in the 4th qt might be an interesting stat as well.
Isn't this kinda like saying "I'm not interested in stats...but could you please go find me some stats to prove my point?"

Will agree that the O in 13 was not what we are striving for though.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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The whole idea of stats is to provide evidence in support of your argument. It's pretty hard to convince a bunch of analytical guys of your opinion with "the eyeball test" as evidence (especially when there's statistical evidence to the contrary).
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
Stats are like "balance sheets" they are good for in-season discussion and debate and can, unlike football, be used as a measure of long/short term corporate comparisons for like time periods (bet this statement will get someone fired up).... The stats you present, i'm sure are correct, however they are apples to oranges comparisons due to the changing variables, players, schedule, coaches, ect.

My perspective is 13 performed poorly with seasoned athletes against a weaker schedule; 09 exceeded expectations with 2nd year players and stronger schedule; the common factor is the coach, Johnson and Sewak (Spenser did play a roll in 09) and Preston is still with the receivers (whole other story), anyway my conclusion is Sewak is either over worked or does not have the capability to coach athletes with 3-4-5 years in the program, i conclude he is a poor coach riding his buddies coat tails, which if aren't on fire should be.

As far as talent goes remaining healthy is part of the equation; I use this analogy with no offense to any player because injuries happen to all athletes and do end careers, but an athlete playing football that stays injured and can't perform is not a talented football player, he may have all the measurable's but in the wrong sport, they should move on to baseball, basketball, tennis, golf, nascar, a sport that will allow them to use their talent for success, not continuous pain and frustration.

Dont get me wrong, performance measures are critical to proper analysis for short/ long term improvement but the bottom line is what keeps the business sustainable are wins.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
Isn't this kinda like saying "I'm not interested in stats...but could you please go find me some stats to prove my point?"

Will agree that the O in 13 was not what we are striving for though.


I guess it sounds that way, but the truth of the matter is trying to compare performance measures for teams four years a part is entertainment not basis for supporting an argument; win loss record is all that counts when the books are closed.

I choose my words poorly, stats are important in the correct perspective.
 

Boomergump

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Featured Member
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3,260
I am a huge stat guy. I love em, but the eyeball test is also important. However, everybody's eyeballs are not the same. Even professional guys who rely on their eyeballs are right some of the time and wrong some of the time. When in doubt, go with the guy who is right most of the time. Over time, interested on-lookers will figure out who has the discerning eye. Eventually, those who trust eyeball test people do using the stat of how right they tend to be, whether formally calculated or roughly estimated through observation.

If you are looking into the future, eyeball test is absolutely critical and stats are only marginally applicable in terms of trend analysis. If you are looking into the past, then finding objective measures to support eyeball type conclusions should be easily done. Why wouldn't you?

I don't subscribe fully to the argument that you can make stats say anything you want. While there is a certain amount of "spin" that is possible, intelligent people can judge the validity of a stat pretty easily. Inevitably, people who say they abhor stats will use them their arguments. I see that all the time. Usually, the biggest difference is what stat they choose to use.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
The whole idea of stats is to provide evidence in support of your argument. It's pretty hard to convince a bunch of analytical guys of your opinion with "the eyeball test" as evidence (especially when there's statistical evidence to the contrary).

You are absolutely right and I salute those on this board that provide their insight through statistical data, there are some very talented people that produce very good data, thats why I joined up!

However, I'm here for entertainment and to share my opinion not win/support arguments through data presentation, I get enough of that at work; really not interested in crunching numbers at home - I will share any good data with the board that comes my way.

gotta fire up the Egg now; have a great day to all!
 
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