On the OL, What is More Important....

bravejason

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
307
Forced to make a choice, I take the road graders. My reasoning is that if the center and the guards can get a good push, the QB has the room and time to mesh, read, and execute the option. Also, if the center and the guards can get a good push then the defense may align the linebackers closer to the LOS. That will reduce the room the linebackers have to maneuver and reduces their ability to scrape and that should help the offensive tackles because they don't have to go as far to block the linebacker. Finally, the QB sneak and the QB follow should be more effective with the center and the guards are getting a good push.

I think having the great space blockers makes you more vulnerable to strong defensive lines. In addition to the risk of having the offensive linemen pushed into the backfield - a detriment to any offense but moreso in one where the QB needs to operate at the LOS - you also have the risk that the defense may choose to interfere with the movement of your space blockers to keep them off of the linebackers. It's kind of like how a 3-4 defense works. Rather than have the defensive line penetrate, use it to restrain the offensive linemen so that the linebackers can flow to the ball carrier.
 
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2,077
Ha, so true. I can't tell you how many plays I have seen would be tacklers let go, while we are running right past them looking for somebody downstream and finding nobody, especially leading plays out on the edge.
Yeah, unfortunately we see blockers blocking downfield when the ball carrier has been stuffed five yards to their rear. You sometimes get the impression our linemen are focused more on getting to one specific defender rather than keeping their head on a swivel and blasting a target of opportunity.
 
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2,077
Boomer I'm with you in your observations of the GCG. Our starting Oline come opening day should be LT-Griffin LG-Divine C-O'Reily RG-Mason RT-Burden. With this group I can definitely see us cramming the ball down defenses throats with BB dive and QB midline. As soon as they crowd the inside then we pop it out on a rocket toss or Option. Really CPJs first two years his line was full of road graders. To me we had more physical blocking in 08-09 then any of his later years. Excited about what this group could become.

Braun? Chamberlain?
 

bravejason

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
307
Yeah, unfortunately we see blockers blocking downfield when the ball carrier has been stuffed five yards to their rear. You sometimes get the impression our linemen are focused more on getting to one specific defender rather than keeping their head on a swivel and blasting a target of opportunity.

I think that is just the nature blocking schemes used in this offense. It is a lot of one-on-one blocking and each player has his assigned defender.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,582
I think the bottom line here is that you can learn to block in space. You can't learn to be 6'7", 340.

Besides, I think that, if Roberts can't come back (has anyone heard more?), we'll end up needing Braun at OT. That means Devine at OG. An OL with Griffin, Mason, O'Reilly/Burden (I don't think this matters as much), Devine, and Braun would be a killer by mid-season. At first, we'd spend a lot of time running called dives to Mason's side, however. If Roberts does come back, then all will be set on the first day of fall.
 

steebu

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
553
If you looked at what was going on in the spring game, Devine was as dominant as any OL player in my memory at the point of attack. However, out in space he really struggled to move well enough and find people to block.

I did not see the spring game, but I just don't feel like we could run midline towards his side. He might have quick feet but if all 6'8" of him is running upright while trying to release past a 3-tech we're going to have to run midline on the other side exclusively.

But hey, if he dominates everyone he faces, let's run Bob Davie's favorite play behind Shamire: QB Duck.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
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13,671
I did not see the spring game, but I just don't feel like we could run midline towards his side. He might have quick feet but if all 6'8" of him is running upright while trying to release past a 3-tech we're going to have to run midline on the other side exclusively.

But hey, if he dominates everyone he faces, let's run Bob Davie's favorite play behind Shamire: QB Duck.
Can you explain the difference between the two plays? Both are qb keepers inside, right? I guess the "qb duck" is a designed keeper where midline is a true option?
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
Can you explain the difference between the two plays? Both are qb keepers inside, right? I guess the "qb duck" is a designed keeper where midline is a true option?

IIuc, in the "duck" the guard drive blocks the tackle, and in the midline, he goes to the next level leaving the tackle as the dive key for the option.
 

Longestday

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
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2,742
Some defenses have started lining up LB 8 yards off the line to allow them to run left or right without the down field block. This distance is to far for the tackle linemen to run and block. I have noticed this is one change over the years that has given our OL trouble getting to the block in time. This also plays into closing the outside, while allowing small yards on the dive play. They give up short yards to minimize gashes on the outside.

The return of a good midline and veer may help force better defense inside and open up the outside. Good passing and receiving will also help keep the safeties more honest.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
Pardon the tone of my first post but the sunshine surrounding our current OL is really nauseating!!!

Two things improve GT's OL:
1- terminate Sewak.
2- recruit OL that have the ability to rise above Sewak's coaching in spite of them selves.

OL has been in steady decline since 2009 and the trend is strong; Sewak does not have the ability to reverse the trend, he's the reason for it. The only reason Sewak has a job is because of his friend, CPJ, any other organization would have canned this guy long ago. Sewak is riding the Johnson retirement plan.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
Pardon the tone of my first post but the sunshine surrounding our current OL is really nauseating!!!

Two things improve GT's OL:
1- terminate Sewak.
2- recruit OL that have the ability to rise above Sewak's coaching in spite of them selves.

OL has been in steady decline since 2009 and the trend is strong; Sewak does not have the ability to reverse the trend, he's the reason for it. The only reason Sewak has a job is because of his friend, CPJ, any other organization would have canned this guy long ago. Sewak is riding the Johnson retirement plan.

Do you have any objective measure in support of this? Or is it just a feeling or impression?
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
I'm not one to regurgitate and ramble about past performance of any element of the team that has under performed. If you have been watching the past four years I believe you have all the objective evidence needed.

Also, I do not by into the injury excuses or , the defenses have caught up to Johnson's scheme excuses. My view is this is all on Sewak and Johnson is giving him a free ride on GT's account!
 

DCSS

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
637
Location
Tennessee
Pardon the tone of my first post but the sunshine surrounding our current OL is really nauseating!!!

Two things improve GT's OL:
1- terminate Sewak.
2- recruit OL that have the ability to rise above Sewak's coaching in spite of them selves.

OL has been in steady decline since 2009 and the trend is strong; Sewak does not have the ability to reverse the trend, he's the reason for it. The only reason Sewak has a job is because of his friend, CPJ, any other organization would have canned this guy long ago. Sewak is riding the Johnson retirement plan.

Who would you want to replace Sewak? Chris Culton? Clay Hendrix? Maybe bring back Todd Spencer? I have heard that losing Spencer was huge, but is it possible to bring him back without NCAA repercussions?
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
No clue about coaching candidates; I've heard the players responded well to Spencer but he was still on the staff in 2010.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
I'm not one to regurgitate and ramble about past performance of any element of the team that has under performed. If you have been watching the past four years I believe you have all the objective evidence needed.

Also, I do not by into the injury excuses or , the defenses have caught up to Johnson's scheme excuses. My view is this is all on Sewak and Johnson is giving him a free ride on GT's account!

I asked for an objective measure, not objective evidence. If you don't have one, that's fine. You get the feeling that our OL has been getting worse now then in 2009. That's fine, but I don't think hiring and firing decisions should be made on feelings. Here is one objective measure for our offense in 2013, may not be great but is worth considering, the average yards per carry allowed by a defense compared to GT
Team .... ave ... vs GT
Clemson 3.73 .. 5.51
Georgie 3.70 ... 4.53
Syracuse 3.84 ... 5.88
BYU ... 3.86 ... 4.56

When you consider that we weren't running the option very well, that's not horrible. Even our B-Backs averaged 5.49 (Sims) and 5.77 (Laskey). While that's not the 5.95 of Dwyer in 2009, I think some of that difference isn't blocking.
 

70Jacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
79
I'm not going to debate statistics nor go through exhaustive measures to find stats, manufactured or derived, that support a position.
I'll borrow your assessment on running the option in 2013 as my objective measure; why is a group with three or more years experience less effective than a 2009 group with less than 2.

Two conclusions (here's your carrot to lead down a pig trail)

1- coaching has lost effectiveness (why would this happen)
2- player talent has declined ( why would this happen)
3- or both

Gt is better than 7-5 and because some historic tend line shows this to be true does not mean it should be accepted, or used by our HC to validate his resent results
 

InsideLB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,493
At G imo we want kids who can drive block and pull a la Shaq Mason.

At C and especially T the job description includes cutting off pursuit at the second level.
 

DCSS

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
637
Location
Tennessee
I'm not going to debate statistics nor go through exhaustive measures to find stats, manufactured or derived, that support a position.
I'll borrow your assessment on running the option in 2013 as my objective measure; why is a group with three or more years experience less effective than a 2009 group with less than 2.

Two conclusions (here's your carrot to lead down a pig trail)

1- coaching has lost effectiveness (why would this happen)
2- player talent has declined ( why would this happen)
3- or both

Gt is better than 7-5 and because some historic tend line shows this to be true does not mean it should be accepted, or used by our HC to validate his resent results

If W/L record is your only measure, why do you conclude the offensive line is the problem?
 
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