Official Postgame: GT 23-Duke 20

[wrmathis]

Both. He gets great players and great assistants and you can bet your bottom dollar he has every last detail running like clockwork. But then that is what many years at one place, unlimited resources and absolute domination of a state with access to talent in other states will do. How come others that followed Bear, with the notable exception of Gene Stallings could not do the same? Beats me but Saban was successful where they were not. But then, he was not a success in the pros nor at Michigan State. Can't remember about his other stop...LSU? Anyway, at the Capstone it all came together.

Saban had a winning record and Michigan state. So wouldn’t call that a failure.
He won a national championship at lsu

 

[Vespidae]

Both. He gets great players and great assistants and you can bet your bottom dollar he has every last detail running like clockwork. But then that is what many years at one place, unlimited resources and absolute domination of a state with access to talent in other states will do. How come others that followed Bear, with the notable exception of Gene Stallings could not do the same? Beats me but Saban was successful where they were not. But then, he was not a success in the pros nor at Michigan State. Can't remember about his other stop...LSU? Anyway, at the Capstone it all came together.

It isn't rocket science.

Saban has been very successful because he is process-oriented and oversees every detail. Not every coach (or manager) cares to do that. It helps that Saban comes from Belichick's tree and he is another detail fanatic.

Gene Stallings learned to coach under Tom Landry, an engineer. Landry taught him how to build and manage dashboards with Expected Results, Current Results and Next Action. Stallings said that is how he won the 1992 Natty. Dabo played for Gene and appears to coach to a similar style.

Many of the rest of those who came and went at Bama (Mike Shula, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Joe Kines, etc) focused on recruiting and/or offense (Shula) or defense (Kines). They did NOT manage details and frankly, didn't want to be involved in them. Saban lives in them.

Saban has changed his offense 7 times since 2007 and hasn't had a great defense since 2015. He is very good at adjusting to what is coming next in the game.

The resources help, no doubt. But Saban's approach would work in almost any organization. Set the Goal, Track Progress, Make Adjustments, Follow Up. Rinse and repeat.

 

[85Escape]

It isn't rocket science.

Saban has been very successful because he is process-oriented and oversees every detail. Not every coach (or manager) cares to do that. It helps that Saban comes from Belichick's tree and he is another detail fanatic.

I agree, but I think it is easy to mis-read 'oversees every detail' to be 'micro-manages'.

By 'oversees every detail' I assume you mean "coaches who are detail-oriented in expectations but also delegate well...and hold people accountable for outcomes."

I feel that CGC thought he was doing the Saban thing by micro-managing his coaches, but in doing so he made all the decisions and found it very difficult to hold his coaches accountable since they were just doing what he told them. At least, that's what I believe happened based on comments I've seen.

 

[Vespidae]

I agree, but I think it is easy to mis-read 'oversees every detail' to be 'micro-manages'.

By 'oversees every detail' I assume you mean "coaches who are detail-oriented in expectations but also delegate well...and hold people accountable for outcomes."

I feel that CGC thought he was doing the Saban thing by micro-managing his coaches, but in doing so he made all the decisions and found it very difficult to hold his coaches accountable since they were just doing what he told them. At least, that's what I believe happened based on comments I've seen.

You can delegate but you have to do so with accountability.

For example, when I ran a business, we usually had a large room organized by Dept (Adminstration, Finance/Results, Sales, Marketing, etc.) with metrics for each one. On each metric was the responsible person's name/picture, the metric, the historical trend, expected trend, and improvement plan. Current results were color-coded red/yellow/green. I could spend an hour there each week (alone) and review 50-60 kpi's, make notes, etc ... but ultimately, each person owned his own contribution to the business. That's managing but not micro-managing. My job was to set the target and review the improvement plans.

Collins, I think ... was trying to manage the offense/defense/special teams as part of his total brand, rather than a means to achieve a desirable result.

Bear Bryant once quipped that he could care less what offense or defense he ran, but he had a set of metrics around field position, time per play, and expected yardage that he wanted to achieve as part of his game philosophy. He left each coordinator to figure out how to do that.

 

[Root4GT]

It isn't rocket science.

Saban has been very successful because he is process-oriented and oversees every detail. Not every coach (or manager) cares to do that. It helps that Saban comes from Belichick's tree and he is another detail fanatic.

Gene Stallings learned to coach under Tom Landry, an engineer. Landry taught him how to build and manage dashboards with Expected Results, Current Results and Next Action. Stallings said that is how he won the 1992 Natty. Dabo played for Gene and appears to coach to a similar style.

Many of the rest of those who came and went at Bama (Mike Shula, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Joe Kines, etc) focused on recruiting and/or offense (Shula) or defense (Kines). They did NOT manage details and frankly, didn't want to be involved in them. Saban lives in them.

Saban has changed his offense 7 times since 2007 and hasn't had a great defense since 2015. He is very good at adjusting to what is coming next in the game.

The resources help, no doubt. But Saban's approach would work in almost any organization. Set the Goal, Track Progress, Make Adjustments, Follow Up. Rinse and repeat.

Only mediocre in the NFL where talent is very similar across all teams and there is a hard salary cap so tough personnel decisions need to be made every year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Only mediocre in the NFL where talent is very similar across all teams and there is a hard salary cap so tough personnel decisions need to be made every year.

Yes, I think Saban has demonstrated he is the best college football coach in the business and perhaps the best of all time.

But in the pros he did not enjoy the talent advantage nor total control of the organization. Without that he is just another Xs and Os guy in a league with plenty of those.

 

[InsideLB]

After re-watching game it really seemed our offensive line, which had been winning in the trenches began to lose after Jordan and "Pierre" Quick went out.

Some of those running plays at the end were ones that had been working most of the game. Some of our late offensive failings were no doubt from play calling (i.e. realizing that those plays would no longer be there/combined with Duke sitting on those plays). Duke's DTs were their strength, however, and it's not surprising their defense was suddenly stout with our OL losses and Duke sitting on the run plays.

Losing McCollum was unfortunate as well because he is hard to cover.

 

[yoshiki2]

Only mediocre in the NFL where talent is very similar across all teams and there is a hard salary cap so tough personnel decisions need to be made every year.

Please. He was in th dolphins, which is probably the worst team. Miami is a terrible city for sports.

 

[slugboy]

It isn't rocket science.

Saban has been very successful because he is process-oriented and oversees every detail. Not every coach (or manager) cares to do that. It helps that Saban comes from Belichick's tree and he is another detail fanatic.

Gene Stallings learned to coach under Tom Landry, an engineer. Landry taught him how to build and manage dashboards with Expected Results, Current Results and Next Action. Stallings said that is how he won the 1992 Natty. Dabo played for Gene and appears to coach to a similar style.

Many of the rest of those who came and went at Bama (Mike Shula, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Joe Kines, etc) focused on recruiting and/or offense (Shula) or defense (Kines). They did NOT manage details and frankly, didn't want to be involved in them. Saban lives in them.

Saban has changed his offense 7 times since 2007 and hasn't had a great defense since 2015. He is very good at adjusting to what is coming next in the game.

The resources help, no doubt. But Saban's approach would work in almost any organization. Set the Goal, Track Progress, Make Adjustments, Follow Up. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not sure what you would qualify as a great defense. Alabama is currently the #2 defense in the country (FEI), behind UGA and ahead of Iowa. I think they've played a good schedule, with Texas, Arkansas, and TA&M already. It just gets lost with the rules favoring offense now.

With the exception of Kirby, Saban has reliably beaten all of his pupils, and he's done well against Kirby too. Belichick has a system, and he's also been much more successful than his pupils. Saban and Belichick know what goals to set better than most people, and they make better adjustments than most people (though Belichick needs to hand off draft duties).

 

[George P. Burdell]

Well, I’m retired and on a fixed income. Football tickets are just too expensive for me now.

That’s why I’ve been attending GT baseball games. Prices for baseball tickets are much lower, plus lower prices for parking, too.

I guess my personal perspective is different.

Alot of times people are giving away extra tickets; just check the GT boards a day or two before the game. Take Marta it's cheap.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Saban had a winning record and Michigan state. So wouldn’t call that a failure.
He won a national championship at lsu

I stand corrected and now that I think about it, there were many people questioning why he would leave LSU after winning a national title. Now we know.

 

[roadkill]

Please. He was in th dolphins, which is probably the worst team. Miami is a terrible city for sports.

Arguable but perhaps true you are only referring to the last couple of decades. Otherwise, a generalization that is easily disproven.

 

[ibeattetris]

Arguable but perhaps true you are only referring to the last couple of decades. Otherwise, a generalization that is easily disproven.

Heck, Miami has more major sports championships since 2000 than Atlanta and is tied the last 10 years.

 

[wrmathis]

It isn't rocket science.

Saban has been very successful because he is process-oriented and oversees every detail. Not every coach (or manager) cares to do that. It helps that Saban comes from Belichick's tree and he is another detail fanatic.

Gene Stallings learned to coach under Tom Landry, an engineer. Landry taught him how to build and manage dashboards with Expected Results, Current Results and Next Action. Stallings said that is how he won the 1992 Natty. Dabo played for Gene and appears to coach to a similar style.

Many of the rest of those who came and went at Bama (Mike Shula, Mike DuBose, Dennis Franchione, Joe Kines, etc) focused on recruiting and/or offense (Shula) or defense (Kines). They did NOT manage details and frankly, didn't want to be involved in them. Saban lives in them.

Saban has changed his offense 7 times since 2007 and hasn't had a great defense since 2015. He is very good at adjusting to what is coming next in the game.

The resources help, no doubt. But Saban's approach would work in almost any organization. Set the Goal, Track Progress, Make Adjustments, Follow Up. Rinse and repeat.

CPJ has said this is why Jeff Monken would be a successful coach anywhere he goes

 

[Techster]

Yes, I think Saban has demonstrated he is the best college football coach in the business and perhaps the best of all time.

But in the pros he did not enjoy the talent advantage nor total control of the organization. Without that he is just another Xs and Os guy in a league with plenty of those.

Again, this is why I think whoever hires Bill O'Brien is going to get a VERY good coach that will probably win 9-11+ games a year depending on the situation (it'll be more like 7-9+ at GT). The guy was probably his own worst enemy at Houston, alienated star players, and still managed to win the division 4 out of 7 years, and had only 1 losing season (before he was fired his last season). Unlike the NFL where players make more than coaches and can undermine coaches, which pretty much got him fired his last season, in the college game it's a one way street. The coach's way or the highway.

He's going to develop talent (see his time at Penn State), give you a scheme advantage type coach, and his players will be disciplined. He's going to get a good job next year, and it will be interesting to see how that school does with him as HC. I'm an advocate for Brent Key if he goes 6-2 or better, but if GT hires O'Brien, I would not be disappointed at all.

 

[Dress2Jacket]

...in the college game it's a one way street. The coach's way or the highway.

Tech does better with "tough love" coaches than "my way or the highway" coaches. Besides, the highway (the transfer portal) has a pretty easy on-ramp these days, so you'd better have more than a "my way or the highway" relationship with the players or you'll be the one hitting the highway.

 

[Techster]

Tech does better with "tough love" coaches than "my way or the highway" coaches. Besides, the highway (the transfer portal) has a pretty easy on-ramp these days, so you'd better have more than a "my way or the highway" relationship with the players or you'll be the one hitting the highway.

O'Leary was a my way or the highway coach.

My point is, in the NFL, you have to handle players differently than in college. They way O'Brien and Saban are just doesn't work in the NFL...though it worked for O'Brien for while.

 

[Techster]

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Key was fired up

Just a little bit Tariq.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

About time. They sure took a while getting it up.