Offensive line learning curve
- Thread starter charles
- Start date
Simple. Pauls first two years we ran a much simpler line scheme relating more to what the kids learned under chan and their bodies could do. Not as much cut or scooping at POA. Year 3 more checks came in and paul started to run more and more traditional small guy OL plays like he did at navy. Coincidentally our OL size went down bigtime. We had 2-3 guys starting at 260 lbs (despite their listed weight).
We started stinking bad on the OL. Spencer fired for off field stuff and he was the good coach.
And for 3 years we all said, wait til pauls guys. Then it was they are young. Then it was injuries. And last year any excuse we wanted but the one trend was the scheme and lack of fundamentals.
This year, in watching the limited scrimmages i have seem the line is using its big bodies, cutting less and resembles more what he did in year 2 than last year.
Now, we also have another OL coach.
I hope it all helps.
AE 87
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Well, some of y'all are obviously experts on OL play, and I don't pretend to be. However, it's hard for me to see our OL as having been horrible when we've put up the rushing numbers we have over the last few years.
Last year was one of our worst years with our rushing attack, but consider these numbers (yards/carry Defense):
Team .... FBS ... GT
BYU ..... 3.86 ... 4.56
CU ....... 4.00 ... 5.51
Syr ....... 4.00 ....5.88
Pitt ....... 4.02 ....5.21 (Wk before vs Navy - 4.68)
georgie . 3.88 ... 4.53
VPI held us in check and I didn't look at the others which weren't as good on rush D.
Now, I know that we scheme to boost our yards/carry beyond just OL play, but it seems to me that some of the complaints are a little over the top.
Last year was one of our worst years with our rushing attack, but consider these numbers (yards/carry Defense):
Team .... FBS ... GT
BYU ..... 3.86 ... 4.56
CU ....... 4.00 ... 5.51
Syr ....... 4.00 ....5.88
Pitt ....... 4.02 ....5.21 (Wk before vs Navy - 4.68)
georgie . 3.88 ... 4.53
VPI held us in check and I didn't look at the others which weren't as good on rush D.
Now, I know that we scheme to boost our yards/carry beyond just OL play, but it seems to me that some of the complaints are a little over the top.
dressedcheeseside
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I think most of the criticism is derived from watching how poorly we protected the qb in obvious passing situations, which was quite often. Most often the breakdown came from the edges, the right edge specifically.
Declinometer
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Passing from this offense is only successful when you can sell the run. VL just never sold the run.
Northeast Stinger
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Ever.
TomOReilly
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Not being a guru on OL play schemes, but I would feel that having improved selling power on the run would help the angles required for OL, AB and WR. If I am right to a degree, this year should offer an improved blocking environment with JT/TB for the entire offense. I say this thinking, the defense could be looking more (hesitating) before committing and thus giving our blockers the advantage!
Passing in this offense would work just fine if the OL pass blocked well consistently. It's not the system. It's the execution.
thwgjacket
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Well starting this year and moving into the future we're going to be a lot longer and heavier on the OL. Will be interesting to see how it works comparatively.
Declinometer
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Exactly. VL execution was poor
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This ^^^
dressedcheeseside
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I guess you forgot all about the wide line splits.
zhavenor
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Yes, because it isn't as if Mike Leach's pass happy offense doesn't use wider splits or any thing.
If anything it should help, because defensive players are forced to line up further out to maintain their assigned gap. The offensive line just hasn't been getting it done.
Payton manning couldn't have been efficient behind our offensive line last year. Passing had to be done in the first three seconds or you would be getting swamped by rush around the Ends. It's unfair to blame that on Vad
Blumpkin Souffle
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Peyton manning wouldn't be successful in any option offense
ramblinvak
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I think we can blame both parties in this case. VL never executed the running portion of this offense well enought to set up an efficient passing attack. The OL really didn't help him when we were in obvious passing downs. Enough about last year, I'm excited to see what these big bodies will do this year with a QB that is completely bought into the system!
thagooseisloose
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I think there were some off-the-field issues with Vad and the OL. I wonder if he was vocal about not wanting to be there or run the option or whatever, because they sure didn't seem very enthused about protecting him.
Regarding technique, what Sewak is teaching should work. It's stuff I've seen a lot as a player and a coach. I don't know where the disconnect is, but its clearly there.
Regarding technique, what Sewak is teaching should work. It's stuff I've seen a lot as a player and a coach. I don't know where the disconnect is, but its clearly there.
sideways fan
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Personally, I don't think it is a learning curve as much as it is finding tackles for this system. It is hard to recruit players big enough who have the athleticism and speed to play tackle. Guards can just be road graders but in this system tackles do a lot more blocking in space AND have to be big enough to block one on one. Tall order and we have struggled getting players to fit that prototype. Back in 2008 we had Nick Claytor who was big and fast and seemed to be a good player. Most of the time our tackles are either too small or too slow and sometimes both.
OldJacketFan
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Chris Griffin, Jake Stickler, Jake Whitley all 6'4 or better and all are or will be in the 290-300 lbs are the ideal size for OT in Tech's scheme. Long and athletic, just keep 'em coming!
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Absolutely I feel like the OL can do better, and in many cases should do better. However, we need to keep some of this in perspective. Go back and watch the film and count the helmets. Teams (the good ones) were basically bringing the house against us last year most of the time. DC's saw that we rarely ever even attempted to dump the ball off in the face of a blitz, nor did we handle quick decisions well in the option run game. Therefore, bringing numbers made a lot of sense. They figured there was a good chance to blow up a read if it was a run and if it was a pass, they would just keep on coming. I am not really sure what some of you expect from the OL when their splits are wide and the defense is bringing more hats than you have. We can talk all about Mike Leach's pass happy schemes with wide splits too, but I can guarantee you they are very adept at dumping off over the blitz and picking up the hot routes. That is the only way they can keep the defense from pinning their ears back. Leach is a master at keeping defenses on their heels with a lot of quick release options in the passing game. It is hard to rush the passer with reckless abandon even with the wide splits because of it. Also, their splits may be wide but they are not at the LOS with a hand on the ground and their butts high in the air trying to sell the run.
Vad ALWAYS tried to force the ball deep. When you do that, you are playing into the hands of the blitzing defense because those routes take time. Vad also had a bad habit of running out of the pocket too soon without ever stepping up into it. It is pretty easy to run wide if you are a DE and wait for Vad to come at you. Teams would blitz the A gap (like against the run) and send the DEs wide.
While they still need to improve, our OL will look a lot better when the option is run better by the skill guys and our QB takes what they give us in the passing game. DC's will call off the dogs if they get burned with the screen or hot routes a few times.
Bringing Peyton Manning into the conversation is useless. His OLs practically share pant legs they are so close together trying to build a wall and keep a small pocket.
Vad ALWAYS tried to force the ball deep. When you do that, you are playing into the hands of the blitzing defense because those routes take time. Vad also had a bad habit of running out of the pocket too soon without ever stepping up into it. It is pretty easy to run wide if you are a DE and wait for Vad to come at you. Teams would blitz the A gap (like against the run) and send the DEs wide.
While they still need to improve, our OL will look a lot better when the option is run better by the skill guys and our QB takes what they give us in the passing game. DC's will call off the dogs if they get burned with the screen or hot routes a few times.
Bringing Peyton Manning into the conversation is useless. His OLs practically share pant legs they are so close together trying to build a wall and keep a small pocket.