Film Study OFF scheme vs. Temple

[BCJacket]

You mean block??
It is not like they are being asked to throw a pass or run a route. They are being asked to identify and block their man just like every other OL in the country is being asked to do.

To be fair, we don't even have a 2-deep worth linemen available at this point. We barely have a single deep of scholarship players at this point. I'm not even totally clear at this point who we have available and who we don't - and where they're playing. When Cooper went down, was anyone playing in-position?

I believe everyone is trying, but I think we're asking the impossible from the OL guys we have. Expecting them to play mostly above their talent/experience level, out of position, without any depth to rotate, while learning a new system; it's just not realistic.

Our QBs are trying to learn a new system, they probably could make some throws if they had time and guys to catch them. But OL's down to walk-ons and depth guys and can't block, we're thin on talent at WR, pretty much nonexistent at TE, and sending the RBs out to catch means one less blocker...

 

[armeck]

This is a board based on content and making the fan base more knowledgeable, so i will try my best to keep it just about that

Biggest gripe has been playing to our strength, not doing enough of a certain play and not have a gameplan. That couldn’t be the furthest from truth. Here

Here we have the Triple. One, i think this shouldve been ran to the boundary bc of the numbers, but look at Quinney and the Center Cooper. Quinney muddles it up who the read key is and Cooper absolute whiffed on the MLB leading Oliver get crushed

This one screencap is everything all in one. Every possible ball carrier was accounted for by the defense, the RB faking right was taken out, Oliver was tackled, RB cutting out to the left was accounted for. Two OL go second level and barely attempted to block any linebacker. At the very end, an OL gets tossed to the ground by the OLB he missed initially. This team is weak, plays with zero awareness of the fundamentals. I keep seeing people defend this OL by saying they are out of their element and not doing what they were recruited for - BS. An OL primary purpose is to lay a block (let's not even get specific about pass blocking v. run blocking) - these guys aren't even blocking at a basic level.

 

[TheFlyest]

@Ibeeballin thanks

If you have time can you show how the play calls differed for Oliver than Graham to show how the coaches adjusted to play towards their strengths?

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/takeaways-from-georgia-tech-loss-temple/Buuac7SlPEn6469YfXqBiL/


2. Pass-protection failures costly

The plays on which quarterback Tobias Oliver’s two fumbles occurred illustrated the difficulties that the offensive line had and their role in the outcome.

On Oliver’s second-quarter fumble at the goal line, an apparent coverage error (tight end Tyler Davis was triple covered) enabled running back Jordan Mason to slip out of the backfield with only linebacker Isaiah Graham-Mobley accounting for him in a wide-open space. Had Oliver had the time, he could have made an easy throw to Mason for a potential race to the goal line with Graham-Mobley.

But left tackle Zach Quinney was beaten on a speed rush by defensive end Quincy Roche, flushing Oliver out of the pocket. Oliver could well have scored anyway, but was stripped of the ball and Temple recovered, one failure in execution leading to another.

The play in which Oliver fumbled again was similar. Running back Jamious Griffin was open on the right side with space in front of him, although Oliver appeared to be looking left. Pass-rush pressure coming from defensive end Zach Mesday against right tackle Jared Southers chased out Oliver, leading to the fumble, which was returned 74 yards for a touchdown.

 

[bke1984]

Thanks. I don’t remember that 3O play. And yeah, it didn’t get executed well, but I do think that we are better at those concepts than anything else. Even under CPJ we didn’t run it perfect all the time, but I feel like we’d have a better chance if we incorporated more of that into the game plan. If you run it once and it’s blown up and say, “see it doesn’t work” then it’s kind of silly.

I think what your post is pointing out is that we might be trying to do way too much right now. Maybe we should scale back quite a bit and focus on a few concepts...it’s be interesting to see what a simplified plan would bring.

 

[TheFlyest]

Thanks. I don’t remember that 3O play. And yeah, it didn’t get executed well, but I do think that we are better at those concepts than anything else. Even under CPJ we didn’t run it perfect all the time, but I feel like we’d have a better chance if we incorporated more of that into the game plan. If you run it once and it’s blown up and say, “see it doesn’t work” then it’s kind of silly.

I think what your post is pointing out is that we might be trying to do way too much right now. Maybe we should scale back quite a bit and focus on a few concepts...it’s be interesting to see what a simplified plan would bring.

They ran the option quite a bit against Temple. The linebackers were stuffing the play which put them in consistent 3rd and longs.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Thanks. I don’t remember that 3O play. And yeah, it didn’t get executed well, but I do think that we are better at those concepts than anything else. Even under CPJ we didn’t run it perfect all the time, but I feel like we’d have a better chance if we incorporated more of that into the game plan. If you run it once and it’s blown up and say, “see it doesn’t work” then it’s kind of silly.

I think what your post is pointing out is that we might be trying to do way too much right now. Maybe we should scale back quite a bit and focus on a few concepts...it’s be interesting to see what a simplified plan would bring.

Actually, kind of the opposite. I think we are already at the simplified phase and defenses just sitting on the QB run. Also, Lineman getting up field doesn’t necessarily equate to pass rush. Which is why I’m not a fan LJ or TO at QB. They both immediately bail on a play as soon there is an ounce of rush

We ran the option a good bit and it’s simply not working

 

[Jacket05]

To be fair, we don't even have a 2-deep worth linemen available at this point. We barely have a single deep of scholarship players at this point. I'm not even totally clear at this point who we have available and who we don't - and where they're playing. When Cooper went down, was anyone playing in-position?

I believe everyone is trying, but I think we're asking the impossible from the OL guys we have. Expecting them to play mostly above their talent/experience level, out of position, without any depth to rotate, while learning a new system; it's just not realistic.

Our QBs are trying to learn a new system, they probably could make some throws if they had time and guys to catch them. But OL's down to walk-ons and depth guys and can't block, we're thin on talent at WR, pretty much nonexistent at TE, and sending the RBs out to catch means one less blocker...

I completely agree that our OL is depleted due to a multitude of factors. My comment was directed toward the "our o line being asked to do allot of what they are not built for/good at" comment. Yes, they are not executing well in large part because we are having to piecemeal a line together but we are not asking them to do something they are not built to do. They are lineman and we are asking them to do the basics of what a lineman is supposed to do, block your man. I would argue that the line is in much worse of shape then it was in 2015 after we lost Shaq to the NFL, and we all know how that season turned out. Even if CPJ was here this line would still likely be performing poorly, albeit maybe a little better since they would not have to learn new playcalls. I think the OL is working hard and doing everything they can to be successful but with the injuries and lack of depth it is jut not enough right now. Hopefully things get better as the season progresses.

 

[jandrews]

Actually, kind of the opposite. I think we are already at the simplified phase and defenses just sitting on the QB run. Also, Lineman getting up field doesn’t necessarily equate to pass rush. Which is why I’m not a fan LJ or TO at QB. They both immediately bail on a play as soon there is an ounce of rush

We ran the option a good bit and it’s simply not working

I'm with you on this. Although I was an advocate for running more option plays against citadel when we were just running at will. Against Temple execution was not there. I think the most frustrating thing to watch is the lack of execution. Our OL looks lost at times on who to block. What I see at times is a lack of fundamentals. Blocking schemes just seem off. We aren't combo blocking well. We are allowing DL to get good upfield penetration which does cause a natural lane but the OL isn't washing them allowing our RB to plant their foot and go. Right now, I'm in the camp just have JG back there and run what you want the offense to be. Can't be any worse than what we have shown on the filed thus far.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I think that first GIF is a perfect example of why the veer out of the gun is a WAY different animal than the veer out of the I (which is basically what PJ does).

Note the angle of attack of EMOLS. He is able to gain 2/3 yards of depth to attack mesh, which leads to the QB having to take a stutterstep back.

This slows everything down.

FURTHER, the QB now has to gain a couple of yards to get to the LOS to attack the pitch read. Slower, and allows MIKE to get off his block.

FURTHER, the OL is not in a run blockin stance, and are being asked to engage and drive their blocks, instead of just getting across their body and making them redirect.

Under center, that's enough time for the play to work. If MIKE runs around the block, the play is already past him, and thats a successful block. You just dive in front of him out of your sprinter's stance, and you've done your job. Now you have to run back, get an angle, engage, and steer. MUCH more difficult block.

Running it out of the Gun, the Dive read is about as fast a play as a normal ISO/LEAD play, and the Keep/Pitch is as fast as a normal Counter play.

Much, much, much slower.

Not necessarily worse, mind you, but just a different animal that asks a lot different stuff from your OL.

(and yes, it also doesn't help that PST completely airballs on WILL)

 

[ilovetheoption]

And again on the trap, you're running it out of a pass look.

PST's first step is a kick slide (sorta... it's CERTAINLY not a 45 degree run blocking step to engage the DE). This means that the stunt is WAY more effective than it otherwise would be, because BSG now has to hit a guy in space, instead of being able to blast through the hole and just destroy first wrong color in tight spaces.

I'd argue this is closer to the old 90's Dallas Cowboys Lead Draw than to a regular guard trap play.

In a normal trap play, PST would either engage the DE, or the DT would HAVE to run into PST to free up the stunting DE. Either way it's a clear read for BSG.

Doing it this way leaves both of them hitting air (actually, even worse, lol, each other)

All this is to say that it may look similar to what the OL has been doing conceptually, but in execution, it's a pretty different.

 

[ilovetheoption]

It’s not much, but these gifs show we indeed had a game plan and was effective. We have to capitalize and execute at high level of want to win any more games this year

I would actually call this close to a Mills concept, no? Hi-Lo on the FS?

 

[GTJake]

In a nutshell we have three problems ...
1) We have QB's recruited for the TO Offense
2) We have OL's recruited for the TO Offense
3) We don't run the TO Offense anymore
Like some others, I drank the pre-season Koolaid, but this is not going to be an over-night transition ...

 

[Ibeeballin]

I would actually call this close to a Mills concept, no? Hi-Lo on the FS?

More a Drive concepts

Graham threw his INT on a Mills concept

 

[ilovetheoption]

More a Drive concepts

Graham threw his INT on a Mills concept

Mmm, yeah, I can see that. I normally think of drive as shallower than that (the old Jerry Rice 5 yard special), but they both do come all the way across the formation like classic drive.

Fair enough

 

[g0lftime]

I think TO scores if he dives into the endzone instead of high stepping. He probably didn’t see the guy who knocked the ball out. I am not faulting what he did. The other fumble was just a good play by the defender on the ball.

 

[Jay Alexander]

Actually, kind of the opposite. I think we are already at the simplified phase and defenses just sitting on the QB run. Also, Lineman getting up field doesn’t necessarily equate to pass rush. Which is why I’m not a fan LJ or TO at QB. They both immediately bail on a play as soon there is an ounce of rush

We ran the option a good bit and it’s simply not working

What are your thoughts on Temple’s front 7 and how they may compare to ACC competition?

CGC seemed to think they were very good/talented (he said top 10 in the country multiple times)

 

[SteamWhistle]

He missed the RB on the wheel multiple times.

 

[bob4gt]

Thanks for starting this thread; these are why I read GTSwarm. Knowledgeable posters and reasonable debate/discussion. Too bad many of the threads on here are becoming like the other sites.

Bob

 

[Ibeeballin]

What are your thoughts on Temple’s front 7 and how they may compare to ACC competition?

CGC seemed to think they were very good/talented (he said top 10 in the country multiple times)

Wishing our front 7 looked that lol. DL was solid. Appeared to be athletic. There LBs were good. I liked what i saw from Bradley.

People are in there feelings about CGC and, some of it rightfully justified. Him saying Top 10 is not outlandish looking at the numbers:

#6 in 3rd down defense
#19 in total defense

 

[UgaBlows]

Actually, kind of the opposite. I think we are already at the simplified phase and defenses just sitting on the QB run. Also, Lineman getting up field doesn’t necessarily equate to pass rush. Which is why I’m not a fan LJ or TO at QB. They both immediately bail on a play as soon there is an ounce of rush

We ran the option a good bit and it’s simply not working

Do you think it would help to try a max protect type of blocking scheme on obvious passing downs?