Notre Dame to Play 2 Johnson Tree Spread option teams back-to-back

[InsideLB]

LOL at ND. It's supposed to wear your legs out to play the spread option and they get high effort, scrappy, cut blocking service academy kids the next two weeks in a row (Navy, then Army).

Meanwhile Army is improving under Monken. Last year they were more competitive but it didn't show up in terms of wins. They are 5-3 this year and look like they could make a bowl. They have beaten low-major teams like Wake, Temple, Rice (and had a near miss vs Duke). Congrats to Coach Monken!

I wonder if we'll take a look after CPJ retires, or whether there'd be mutual interest. My guess is some other teams make a run at Monken first. Will be interesting to watch. Monken was of course also successful at Ga Southern prior to being hired at Army.

 

[Skeptic]

LOL at ND. It's supposed to wear your legs out to play the spread option and they get high effort, scrappy, cut blocking service academy kids the next two weeks in a row (Navy, then Army).

Meanwhile Army is improving under Monken. Last year they were more competitive but it didn't show up in terms of wins. They are 5-3 this year and look like they could make a bowl. They have beaten low-major teams like Wake, Temple, Rice (and had a near miss vs Duke). Congrats to Coach Monken!

I wonder if we'll take a look after CPJ retires, or whether there'd be mutual interest. My guess is some other teams make a run at Monken first. Will be interesting to watch. Monken was of course also successful at Ga Southern prior to being hired at Army.

Don't you guess that given the unwarranted and unexpected criticism of the offense and its difficulty in latching on to the imagination of fans, GT will not opt to go that way again? They will convince themselves they can recruit in Top 10 and play chuck and duck with the best of them. And then it will all come to earth.

 

[InsideLB]

Don't you guess that given the unwarranted and unexpected criticism of the offense and its difficulty in latching on to the imagination of fans, GT will not opt to go that way again? They will convince themselves they can recruit in Top 10 and play chuck and duck with the best of them. And then it will all come to earth.

It probably depends on a bunch of stuff, and what things are like when Johnson hangs up the whistle. You could have a new AD who wants to make a name for himself with a big hire. Or if Johnson ends on an Orange Bowl you could see folks wanting to stay with it. The world is so what-have-you-done-for-me-lately these days. Could also just depend on who's available in the coaching tree and whether they'd want to come to Tech.

Personally I think the offense fits Tech like a glove. It's a little unfortunate CFB went away from pro-style and adopted shotgun spread with option though. Factories are now more likely to recruit the same type of offensive player as us (more than they used to).

What would be wild would be to see GT have a good enough defense that we could play up tempo on offense. I bet it would be miserable to defend. We do sometimes change pace as it is, but I mean going really fast.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

It probably depends on a bunch of stuff, and what things are like when Johnson hangs up the whistle. You could have a new AD who wants to make a name for himself with a big hire. Or if Johnson ends on an Orange Bowl you could see folks wanting to stay with it. The world is so what-have-you-done-for-me-lately these days. Could also just depend on who's available in the coaching tree and whether they'd want to come to Tech.

Personally I think the offense fits Tech like a glove. It's a little unfortunate CFB went away from pro-style and adopted shotgun spread with option though. Factories are now more likely to recruit the same type of offensive player as us (more than they used to).

What would be wild would be to see GT have a good enough defense that we could play up tempo on offense. I bet it would be miserable to defend. We do sometimes change pace as it is, but I mean going really fast.

Problem is, even the PHI Eagles didn't have a good enough defense for their Chip-Kelly up-tempo offense. It just ultimately doesn't work.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

Well, since CPJ is the guru of this O, why hire someone who can not do it as well?

Why continue with a system that hurts our overall recruiting?

Who ever claimed that if we ever went with a different O, that we would have "top 10" recruiting classes?

We would be insane to ever cut down our list of potential HCs, whenever the time comes, to 2 or 3 guys. Which means that is probably the exact action we would take.

Some, if not many, at GT do not want to be first class in football. Another TO coach would help them by reducing ticket sales further and hurting recruiting. Self induced de emphasis. They win.

 

[InsideLB]

Silas, I respect your opinion/that you have a differing vision.

My observation is in sports that it is very common for a protégé to eclipse a mentor. For me your dont hire a protégé argument is not convincing.

Recruiting I am starting to think you have a point with respect to recruiting pass rushers. In 8 years we've had Gotsis and JA. That's it. Only in the last couple years we've gotten a few guys who have the raw athleticism (Woods, St Amour, Simmons).

Otherwise I see a good looking prospects at A, B, OL, WR, QB, and DB. LB for me the jury is out. Seems like the uptick coincided with more recruiting staff.

Seems like last two staffs had to be here awhile before recruiting improved. I guess it's a learning curve and to get better kids here you need multi-year relationships with kids. All I can figure!

 

[InsideLB]

Anyway I probably hijacked my own thread.

Main point was it's interesting to see ND get Navy and Army back-to-back. Think Ken and Jeff wont be comparing notes?

 

[Vespidae]

Why continue with a system that hurts our overall recruiting?

I think I shared Lou Holtz's view on the TO and recruiting in a prior post. Yes, it's a highly effective offense. And yes, it hurts recruiting. NFL-bound kids don't want to go to a TO team. They prefer a factory-school. (Note ... that affects <2% of kids.)

My understanding though, is that CPJ was specifically recruited to Tech because of the TO. It sets up better for the type of kids we do recruit (smaller, faster, smarter?) and so, I would expect us to run more of a "service academy" kind of program.

There's a lot more to running a FBS program than the offense or the coach. You need $$$ ($100MM) to get the infrastructure, coaches, recruiting and staff to compete.

Personally, I think the fans would support the TO if we won. In fact, I would rather we "commit" to be expert at the TO and then look at filling in the gaps to be the best at it in the country. (I wonder who made the call anyway? I know Homer Rice used to teach it ...) Changing styles every 5-7 years is just awful for developing long-term success.

I really like ND's approach to recruiting. I wish we would do a benchmarking study and do a better job there.

 

[Vespidae]

.... and I'm not sure who mentioned it, but it costs Tech nothing to improve the Defense. That isn't going to affect the offense we run , so there's no conflict.

As Al Davis said, "Just win, Baby!"

 

[wreckrod]

I think the kids who don't come to GT because of the offense we run were never coming to GT anyway.

Whatever we might lose in recruiting is more than made up for by the advantage we have in games.

GT would be crazy to hire anyone but another option-guru coach. Whether it's Ken Alphabetallo or Monken. Granted, I think there are a lot of GT fans who irrationally hate the offense. But they're irrational because regardless of what they wish or think GT is not changing its academics for football. Consequently, we will never recruit much better than mostly 3 star with the randomly sprinkled in 4 star. It is crazy to think that we could get, much less keep, a coach who is so effective at coaching that he routinely beats teams with superior talent at their own game. Oh wait! We already have one of those, he just runs a different offense.

If we could ever find a good defensive coordinator like Bud Foster at VT, we could be really dangerous.

 

[MtownJacket]

Well, since CPJ is the guru of this O, why hire someone who can not do it as well?

Why continue with a system that hurts our overall recruiting?

Who ever claimed that if we ever went with a different O, that we would have "top 10" recruiting classes?

We would be insane to ever cut down our list of potential HCs, whenever the time comes, to 2 or 3 guys. Which means that is probably the exact action we would take.

Some, if not many, at GT do not want to be first class in football. Another TO coach would help them by reducing ticket sales further and hurting recruiting. Self induced de emphasis. They win.

Obviously GT will hire whoever the best coach they can get is without considering offensive system. If that happens to be Monken then great, there would be some continuity on offense. Monken's resume is not strong enough right now. Beat Navy for a few years in a row and sneak in a 10 win season or two then we can talk.

 

[Skeptic]

Silas, I respect your opinion/that you have a differing vision.

My observation is in sports that it is very common for a protégé to eclipse a mentor. For me your dont hire a protégé argument is not convincing.

Recruiting I am starting to think you have a point with respect to recruiting pass rushers. In 8 years we've had Gotsis and JA. That's it. Only in the last couple years we've gotten a few guys who have the raw athleticism (Woods, St Amour, Simmons).

Otherwise I see a good looking prospects at A, B, OL, WR, QB, and DB. LB for me the jury is out. Seems like the uptick coincided with more recruiting staff.

Seems like last two staffs had to be here awhile before recruiting improved. I guess it's a learning curve and to get better kids here you need multi-year relationships with kids. All I can figure!

The first rule I had in hiring was simple, and everything played off that equation. I was good at what I did, and I was looking to hire somebody who would be better. We could get into details after that first evaluation.

 

[Vespidae]

Obviously GT will hire whoever the best coach they can get is without considering offensive system

I don't think this is accurate. Tech considered the offense first (the type of kids coming to Tech) and pursued CPJ. I think they would do the same again.

I also understand that CPJ was pursued for HC by Auburn? Is that accurate? If so, that tells me it is less an issue of coach than all of the other "stuff" one needs to compete at the FBS level.

 

[danny daniel]

I don't think this is accurate. Tech considered the offense first (the type of kids coming to Tech) and pursued CPJ. I think they would do the same again.

I also understand that CPJ was pursued for HC by Auburn? Is that accurate? If so, that tells me it is less an issue of coach than all of the other "stuff" one needs to compete at the FBS level.

There is a lot more to being a head coach than being a guru at a particular x and o scheme, such as: organizational, management, and communication skills; disciplinarian; personal character; hard working and dedicated; game management; and a connection with the players to mention a few. CPJ possesses most of these characteristics and is particularly strong in the most important ones like character and connection with the players.

 

[Cam]

I also understand that CPJ was pursued for HC by Auburn? Is that accurate? If so, that tells me it is less an issue of coach than all of the other "stuff" one needs to compete at the FBS level.

I think CPJ has gone on record a few times saying he's gotten a lot of offers from a lot of schools to leave GT. Auburn being one of them after the '08 season. But he's also gone on record saying he loves the type of players we recruit to GT and that's one of the primary reasons he's stayed.

Personally, I don't think one of CPJs protégés will be better than him. We need a great DC and more recruiting staff to rise and stay at the top. I am hopeful that after the 2017 season when we stop paying the basketball contracts (~$2MM?), we'll have enough money to make those changes. The recent podcast shows we wanted to hire certain DCs over the years but were hampered by funds. Make Ted Roof a handsomely paid LB coach like Ellis Johnson at South Carolina and add the title of recruiting coordinator.

 

[takethepoints]

The first rule I had in hiring was simple, and everything played off that equation. I was good at what I did, and I was looking to hire somebody who would be better. We could get into details after that first evaluation.

Yessss. I always tried to use the same rule myself. Problem = I often found my prime candidate being hired out from under me while the higher-ups were trying to make up what they euphemistically referred to as their minds.

As to the rest: the experience at GSU is instructive. They had fans who were upset at Coach's O too and wanted somebody who would bring "excitement back into GSU football!" So they fired Sewak and hired - wait for it -Van Gorder. Some of you might remember how that worked out. When he resigned to work for the Falcons, everyone heaved a sigh of relief and hired Jeff Monken. Who brought back the spread option and virtually instant success.

I think what it comes down to is that schools get football traditions and work within them. Stanford will never be an option team, Nebraska will never abandon the I-Bone, and, I'm guessing, Tech will continue to be a spread option school after Coach leaves. It fits and we're set up to both coach and recruit for it. And it's been successful here (some people tend to forget that).

 

[Skeptic]

Yessss. I always tried to use the same rule myself. Problem = I often found my prime candidate being hired out from under me while the higher-ups were trying to make up what they euphemistically referred to as their minds....

...we once went through a period that happens occasionally, and the disciplines we hired were rare and a hiring war ensued. For everybody else wanting to do it right. My boss got peeved when I accused him of making us non-combatants. The hirings in that period turned out as you might expect.

 

[Skeptic]

It probably depends on a bunch of stuff, and what things are like when Johnson hangs up the whistle. You could have a new AD who wants to make a name for himself with a big hire. Or if Johnson ends on an Orange Bowl you could see folks wanting to stay with it. The world is so what-have-you-done-for-me-lately these days. Could also just depend on who's available in the coaching tree and whether they'd want to come to Tech.

Personally I think the offense fits Tech like a glove. It's a little unfortunate CFB went away from pro-style and adopted shotgun spread with option though. Factories are now more likely to recruit the same type of offensive player as us (more than they used to).

What would be wild would be to see GT have a good enough defense that we could play up tempo on offense. I bet it would be miserable to defend. We do sometimes change pace as it is, but I mean going really fast.

I feel a little bit like Lewis Carroll here -- first the hanging, then the trial -- and frankly Johnson doesn't have to defend his record at GT to anybody. He deserves some jabs about being so sensitive -- when it happens it is, as coaches like to say, an unforced error -- but the field speaks for itself. Maybe GT has untold millions lying about that is not known to outsiders, but to think that in this day and age of overpaid, overrated and pompous gifts to the coaching profession -- Lane Kiffin, Bobby Petrino and Butch Davis, I am talking about you -- Tech would make a "big hire" is to believe that the average 20-year-old Trump beauty contestant knows the first thing about world peace or international disarmament. Its only hope in that regard is the washed-up and washed out used-to-be now on the far side of the downward slope looking for one more big contract before heading for the ESPN studio where he can utter such innane pronouncements as "He threw it a little behind him there" and "He needed a little air under the ball" and my all-time fourth quarter favorite, "This game is not over yet!" I just wish we could all move on to serious matters, such as advising Johnson on offense, defense, special teams, recruiting and discipline.

 

[Boomergump]

I would hire Monken in a nanosecond if we had a need to.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

And Navy wins. Oh have the mighty have fallen.