Note from Juanyeh Thomas

[Vespidae]

I think the point that's being missed is that those who would like to see the players get some money feel that the athletes are EARNING it and aren't being remunerated fairly

So the problem to be solved is that college athletes should be paid “fairly”. What is fair? They aren’t professionals, but maybe semi-pro?

To compare, AAA baseball players average $82,000 along with $4K in bonuses and $8Kin profit sharing. Is that “fair”?

And what of their education grant? That’s $100K value.

 

[Vespidie]

Except the concept isn't "welfare." Welfare is when financial aid is GIVEN to people who need it. I think the point that's being missed is that those who would like to see the players get some money feel that the athletes are EARNING it and aren't being remunerated fairly. At one time it was likely true that the scholarship and room and board were a fair wage but that might not be the case anymore. Sometimes the problem is that the system is broken and needs to be fixed and if the means are available to do so then why not do it in order to offer those who deserve it something more?

Deserve it? Who's going to determine who and how much some deserving athlete is going to get? This seems like a slippery slope to ascend or descend in the name of "need" from my perspective, but I've been told before that my lack of empathy is blinding sometimes.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Deserve it? Who's going to determine who and how much some deserving athlete is going to get? This seems like a slippery slope to ascend or descend in the name of "need" from my perspective, but I've been told before that my lack of empathy is blinding sometimes.

How about letting the market decide? How about letting the athletes make money off of their own likeness and fame like every other adult is allowed to do?
They could have their own YouTube account, or cameo accounts, or sponsored Instagram posts, etc.

"BuT iT wiLl Be aBuSed"

 

[jojatk]

Deserve it? Who's going to determine who and how much some deserving athlete is going to get? This seems like a slippery slope to ascend or descend in the name of "need" from my perspective, but I've been told before that my lack of empathy is blinding sometimes.

Yeah I made that a bit ambiguous by my choice of words. In this case the word deserve wasn’t meant to indicate that some do and some don’t and we have to choose. It was more meant as an inclusive of all players who are helping bring in the dollars so they, as a group, deserve something more.

But I do agree that it can be a slippery slope and I don’t pretend to have the answers but I think the questions are worth asking as the money continues to skyrocket.


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[jojatk]

So the problem to be solved is that college athletes should be paid “fairly”. What is fair? They aren’t professionals, but maybe semi-pro?

To compare, AAA baseball players average $82,000 along with $4K in bonuses and $8Kin profit sharing. Is that “fair”?

And what of their education grant? That’s $100K value.

I don’t know what it fair. I don’t have enough information to even begin to make that determination and I probably also don’t have the right skills in finance to make that kind of call.

But I think that you are absolutely asking one of the right questions.


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[jojatk]

I don’t know what it fair. I don’t have enough information to even begin to make that determination and I probably also don’t have the right skills in finance to make that kind of call.

But I think that you are absolutely asking one of the right questions.


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By the way for me it’s not a foregone conclusion that the athletes need to get paid in addition to the scholarships. I just feel the questions are worth asking especially as the money coming in is exploding.


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[Vespidae]

By the way for me it’s not a foregone conclusion that the athletes need to get paid in addition to the scholarships. I just feel the questions are worth asking especially as the money coming in is exploding.


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The money may be exploding, but there’s a big difference between revenue and bottom line. Most athletic programs lose money.

 

[jojatk]

The money may be exploding, but there’s a big difference between revenue and bottom line. Most athletic programs lose money.

As I said I don’t have answers. But I suspect that athletic departments and the NCAA and their sponsors and the networks have, between them, money to help try and find an answer. But I know it’s not an easy problem to solve and certainly not one where someone could waive a magic wand and make money appear that doesn’t exist. But I don’t trust the NCAA as far as I could throw a supertanker to tell the truth about anything so I’m skeptical that there isn’t money. But I do still have an open mind and I listen to what others say.


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[LongforDodd]

How about letting the market decide? How about letting the athletes make money off of their own likeness and fame like every other adult is allowed to do?
They could have their own YouTube account, or cameo accounts, or sponsored Instagram posts, etc.

"BuT iT wiLl Be aBuSed"

Do we let the bagmen of the Top 10 be a part of this market? Rhetorical but serious question.

 

[A Love Supreme]

The NCAA is a joke. Thats why I stopped watching college sports last year.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Do we let the bagmen of the Top 10 be a part of this market? Rhetorical but serious question.

Are you assuming they aren't already??
Serious question

 

[LongforDodd]

Are you assuming they aren't already??
Serious question

No, but if they are then given free reign I think we all have a good idea what those ramifications will shape CFB.

 

[first&ten]

Do we let the bagmen of the Top 10 be a part of this market? Rhetorical but serious question.

If the NCAA agrees to let college athletes get paid for being a spokesperson for a business, the agents will line up . Only the most prolific stars will sign contracts to represent. Meanwhile, the lesser players , like DL or OL players get no contracts. Do you see how an agent could point a highschool kid to a certain school with a promise that a bank or any industry will use them as a spokeman.

 

[gtbeak]

Do we really believe that there is a lot of money to be made for the median college football player in endorsement deals and money from their likeness? I'm certainly not an expert, but I am skeptical that anyone other than the top 3 or 4 offensive skill position players and maybe the top one or two defensive players would have any value.

How much money does the linebacking corp for the Falcons make in endorsement deals? I honestly can't think of the last time I saw a commercial with Deion Jones or De'Vondre Campbell in it, but I admit I'm not the target demo, so maybe I just miss it. Is the value here mostly tied to selling autographs at a local car dealership?

 

[heyhellowhatsup]

Do we really believe that there is a lot of money to be made for the median college football player in endorsement deals and money from their likeness? I'm certainly not an expert, but I am skeptical that anyone other than the top 3 or 4 offensive skill position players and maybe the top one or two defensive players would have any value.

How much money does the linebacking corp for the Falcons make in endorsement deals? I honestly can't think of the last time I saw a commercial with Deion Jones or De'Vondre Campbell in it, but I admit I'm not the target demo, so maybe I just miss it. Is the value here mostly tied to selling autographs at a local car dealership?

Bingo... The value in most players at the collegiate level is the name on the front of their jersey not the name on the back.

I quite honestly wouldn’t pay $20 for a Joe Burrow autograph... Not because he’s not a great player, but rather just because I’m not a LSU fan. Now, obviously, there are hundreds of thousands of LSU fans who would.. so it’s clear that he does have some value... But that offensive guard who’s redshirting this season. He doesn’t have much value to even their fans.

 

[LibertyTurns]

If the NCAA agrees to let college athletes get paid for being a spokesperson for a business, the agents will line up . Only the most prolific stars will sign contracts to represent. Meanwhile, the lesser players , like DL or OL players get no contracts. Do you see how an agent could point a highschool kid to a certain school with a promise that a bank or any industry will use them as a spokeman.

They should let schools determine what they’re willing to pay like $25k for year 1, $30k for year 2, etc. $5k/yr for practice squad. Top players negotiate higher contracts. We already have differences between schools in support levels, facilities, etc. Bammers will pay more, W. Mich will pay less.

We already do this with academics. Top scholars get scholarships, grants & aid, regular stiffs get little to nothing. Interns get paid differing amounts based on area and level of expertise. What’s the difference? Nobody’s regulating that & it works ok.

Let the free market roll and it will all work itself out.

 

[vadimivich]

How much money does the linebacking corp for the Falcons make in endorsement deals? I honestly can't think of the last time I saw a commercial with Deion Jones or De'Vondre Campbell in it, but I admit I'm not the target demo, so maybe I just miss it. Is the value here mostly tied to selling autographs at a local car dealership?

They are paid for the use of their likeness in the Madden games, on trading cards and other collectibles, on any advertising that features the whole Falcons team, etc.

It's not enormous sums of money, but it's quite a fair bit.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Bingo... The value in most players at the collegiate level is the name on the front of their jersey not the name on the back.

I quite honestly wouldn’t pay $20 for a Joe Burrow autograph... Not because he’s not a great player, but rather just because I’m not a LSU fan. Now, obviously, there are hundreds of thousands of LSU fans who would.. so it’s clear that he does have some value... But that offensive guard who’s redshirting this season. He doesn’t have much value to even their fans.

Limiting it to just autographs is antiquated thinking.
(Edit: this isn't directed at you specifically. When this topic comes up many seem to think the only options for payment are autographs, car dealership commercials, or salaries from the school)

If Jahaziel Lee wanted to start a YouTube/Patreon account where he just shared his insight into being a football player at GT I'd be interested in that. But the NCAA bans that. If I wanted to pay $30 for TO to wish my buddy Happy Birthday via Cameo why should the NCAA ban that?

There's already been a case of a high schooler having a YouTube account with subscribers he'd earn some money from pre-scholarship and the NCAA wouldn't allow him to keep it into college. He stood his ground, appealed, and they wouldn't let him play. I think that's dumb.

Yes, there's money that's ready to flood into that market. But there's also going to be a ton of supply.

And, for selfish reasons I just want the NCAA football video games back and have no qualms with players getting a check from that.

 

[gtbeak]

Again, thinking about the NFL and trying to tie that back to college football......how many NFL players have YouTube channels or Patreon accounts that they run? I can see, though, why those that are so inclined have a good argument that they should be allowed to do so.

I looked up the amount of money the Madden thing brings in, and the most recent data I could find is that Madden paid the NFLPA $50M in 2013 for the Madden license. That is old data, and maybe it has doubled in the last 6 years, so lets say it is now $100M/year. That works out to be ~$55k/player/year, so certainly not insignificant. It looks like the NFLPA stashes that money away for their "rainy day" fund, so it's not clear to me that the players actually see any of that directly. Let's assume that EA Sports would pay college football players half of what they pay NFL players, and then realizing that there are >2X the amount of P5 college football teams, and then again the fact that college football rosters are bigger than NFL rosters by about 1.5X, that works out to be ~$8k/year/CFB player. That certainly is not insignificant, but it also uses generous numbers and assumes that the money makes it to the players and isn't siphoned off by any middle men.

I'm a free market person to the core, so I want to err in that direction. I just don't see that the funds are there from endorsements and likeness deals to make a large difference. Then again, I am thinking about this from the vantage point of an adult, and must remember that $8,000 would have been a large sum of money to me as a college student.

What is the value of the stipends that the guys receive? Am I remembering correctly that it is in the $3k range per year?

 

[GTZachary]

Again, thinking about the NFL and trying to tie that back to college football......how many NFL players have YouTube channels or Patreon accounts that they run? I can see, though, why those that are so inclined have a good argument that they should be allowed to do so.

I looked up the amount of money the Madden thing brings in, and the most recent data I could find is that Madden paid the NFLPA $50M in 2013 for the Madden license. That is old data, and maybe it has doubled in the last 6 years, so lets say it is now $100M/year. That works out to be ~$55k/player/year, so certainly not insignificant. It looks like the NFLPA stashes that money away for their "rainy day" fund, so it's not clear to me that the players actually see any of that directly. Let's assume that EA Sports would pay college football players half of what they pay NFL players, and then realizing that there are >2X the amount of P5 college football teams, and then again the fact that college football rosters are bigger than NFL rosters by about 1.5X, that works out to be ~$8k/year/CFB player. That certainly is not insignificant, but it also uses generous numbers and assumes that the money makes it to the players and isn't siphoned off by any middle men.

I'm a free market person to the core, so I want to err in that direction. I just don't see that the funds are there from endorsements and likeness deals to make a large difference. Then again, I am thinking about this from the vantage point of an adult, and must remember that $8,000 would have been a large sum of money to me as a college student.

What is the value of the stipends that the guys receive? Am I remembering correctly that it is in the $3k range per year?

Back in 2013, when there was an NCAA football game, the top teams were getting paid out 75-150K by EA sports. Even if you gave that all the to players (which doesn’t seem “fair”), it’s not much, but it is something.