not about Minnesota

[okiemon]

Let me speak for the other side. I certainly didn't hate CPJ. I was very appreciative of his successes here but believe it is more than a coincidence that his best 2 year stretch came with Gailey's players in 08-09. I believed his inability to recruit could not be offset by his tactical genius on a consistent basis. My issue with CPJ was because I ultimately thought he hurt our program and that we could do better. Nothing more nothing less.

Here is the difference between the Pro CPJ and the Pro CGC crowd in my view. The pro Johnson crowd ultimately has very little faith in what our program can be. They see the challenges such as limited cirriculum, smaller fan base, APR etc and believe we have to have a gimmick to succeed and that is what CPJ's offense provided. The Pro CGC'ers however believe the program is a good job and that our expectations should be to consistently make bowl games regardless of who the coach is. We believe we can recruit at a top 25ish level consistently with our program history and geography. We believe that history proves us to be correct on that assessment.

I believe only a few out there have a personal vendetta against either coach. Most of it is simply differing perspectives on our program.

Well-reasoned, balanced post, Boaty. Congrats, and thanks.


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[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

This is how I was as well. But I wanted him to come in with a plan from day one and clearly articulate it. Give me a reason to believe. But he has not and I don't believe he has any kind of an offensive vision. Just saying we are going to be different than the 3O does not cut it. The crap P-Nut is doing is a complete embarrassment. It was obvious after spring how bad this year was going to be. I REALLY want to be emotional invested in Tech Football. But until CGC proves he can be a capable head coach and know what he is doing besides having an average defense, I have stopped caring about Tech Football and will no longer support them financially.

CGC, needs to decide for himself what his complete football philosophy is and why it gives him an advantaged. Then you wrap all the Rah Rah stuff around that and you may actually have something.

Hey maybe that swinging gate offense will work for us, I hear some P5 teams are running it from time to time.

I totally understand your sentiment, but PLEASE DON'T STOP GIVING !!!! I never stopped giving through the many miserable years after Dodd, and I will not stop giving now, no matter whether Collins proves himself to be a capable head coach or not. Tech can NEVER improve without money, and a substantial part of that money must come from the fans, through thick and thin.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I was hoping for an uptempo UCF type or what Auburn runs myself

And 20-second snap counts are definitely not uptempo.

 

[vamosjackets]

Great thread, dude. You should do another one about the triple option. Then another one about Ralph Friedgen. Then one about Bobby Ross. Then another about how Paul actually never lost at Georgia Tech.

He didn't create the thread, a moderator took his post and others that were related to it from the Gopher thread. His response made sense in its context. Here, it has no context.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

Since this thread is NOT about Minnesota, why don't you NOT check their recent recruiting rankings.......clue - they are about the same as ours.
My point on this is that some coaches really are able to do more with " less". Some coaches need what used to be called " grandma talent". You know, so good they could win if your grandma was coaching them. Like many on here, I am concerned about our offense on many levels: talent( esp. OL ), scheme, and coaching methodology. Patenaude has been around coaching long enough to have better results by this point. HE IS NOT a newcomer to coaching. His play calling seems unimaginative , even when it is effective sporadically. He seems to have no adjustments he can make , once the opposing D adjusts to what we have been doing.
Sometimes , the difference is MORE than just shortage of talent. Does Patenaude need " grandma talent" to succeed at Tech ? He may be at the wrong place.....

 

[Vespidae]

I pretty much despise curry now for his pomposity and arrogance. I supported him with money and materials during his time here.

But despite his shortcomings (anyone thinking we should have hired him over Spurrier is insane) he inherited embarrassing facilities from AD Dodd. And he played the toughest schedules ANY GT coach ever had to before or since.

I was at Tech during the Curry years. You can’t believe how bad it was and how close Tech came to dropping football. Only Kim King saved it by threatening to unseat Petit.

Curry was full of himself. But ... the guy ran into a burning building and built something. He also contributed my two favorite games of all time ... beating Alabama and tying Notre Dame. Incredible considering the state of our program then.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Since this thread is NOT about Minnesota, why don't you NOT check their recent recruiting rankings.......clue - they are about the same as ours.
My point on this is that some coaches really are able to do more with " less". Some coaches need what used to be called " grandma talent". You know, so good they could win if your grandma was coaching them. Like many on here, I am concerned about our offense on many levels: talent( esp. OL ), scheme, and coaching methodology. Patenaude has been around coaching long enough to have better results by this point. HE IS NOT a newcomer to coaching. His play calling seems unimaginative , even when it is effective sporadically. He seems to have no adjustments he can make , once the opposing D adjusts to what we have been doing.
Sometimes , the difference is MORE than just shortage of talent. Does Patenaude need " grandma talent" to succeed at Tech ? He may be at the wrong place.....

And he is TERRIBLE at clock management

 

[upwgdrb]

Vamos, I think there may be a 3rd option and tbh, one that I have never really resolved in my mind. The option system MAY have impacted our ability to recruit defensively. Over ten years and multiple DC's, we never seemed to be a well rounded team (O,D and ST's). Maybe the system was NOT the root cause as there were other lurking variables at play - resources being chief among them. But we will never know the true answer to this question although many of us will have opinions on this that we will mistake for the truth.

I don't think we can outrecruit the 6 or 7 heavyweights. But I believe if CCG had been able to recruit just one top tier QB during his tenure (and perhaps an OC to go along with it) I think we would have a different perspective of his time on the Flats and he would have positioned us as a consistent top 25 type program. Perhaps my memory is distorted by time, age and copious amounts of bourbon.

He had a great qb in demarious bilbo who was highly recruited and a young up and coming offensive coordinator in Bill O’Brien. CCG could not just come in a be an executive coach as he was hired to do.He thought he needed to control the offense. These two decisions set him up for long term mediocrity just like he had done everywhere else he was.

I hate rehashing his period here.

Like some have said here, we need an offense with a variety of plays and sets to succeed.


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[BleedGoldNWhite21]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: No one here aside from our favorite UVA fan @ilovetheoption has ever rooted against Tech. That’s a stupid accusation.

 

[slugboy]

He didn't create the thread, a moderator took his post and others that were related to it from the Gopher thread. His response made sense in its context. Here, it has no context.

Yep, I moved it. He did not go out of his way to start a new thread; the Minnesota thread just went off topic.

That was about the point people stopped talking about the Minnesota game. I might have been able to leave that post, but it seemed to fit more with the posts that were coming over.




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[Bogey]

Let me speak for the other side. I certainly didn't hate CPJ. I was very appreciative of his successes here but believe it is more than a coincidence that his best 2 year stretch came with Gailey's players in 08-09. I believed his inability to recruit could not be offset by his tactical genius on a consistent basis. My issue with CPJ was because I ultimately thought he hurt our program and that we could do better. Nothing more nothing less.

Here is the difference between the Pro CPJ and the Pro CGC crowd in my view. The pro Johnson crowd ultimately has very little faith in what our program can be. They see the challenges such as limited cirriculum, smaller fan base, APR etc and believe we have to have a gimmick to succeed and that is what CPJ's offense provided. The Pro CGC'ers however believe the program is a good job and that our expectations should be to consistently make bowl games regardless of who the coach is. We believe we can recruit at a top 25ish level consistently with our program history and geography. We believe that history proves us to be correct on that assessment.

I believe only a few out there have a personal vendetta against either coach. Most of it is simply differing perspectives on our program.

THIS! Thank you Boaty.

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[Vespidae]

THIS! Thank you Boaty.

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Tech has a $70M annual budget and barely breaks even. Compared to other programs, we are short staffed virtually everywhere by comparison. I recall reading that Alabama for example, has over 100 tutors in player support.

CPJ simply claimed Tech has champagne tastes on a cola budget. TStan is finding money which is more than MBob did.

Ironically, Auburn offered the HC job to CPJ. I wonder how folks would feel if he left and won a natty for them.

Rambling over coffee...

 

[4shotB]

Tech has a $70M annual budget and barely breaks even. Compared to other programs, we are short staffed virtually everywhere by comparison. I recall reading that Alabama for example, has over 100 tutors in player support.

CPJ simply claimed Tech has champagne tastes on a cola budget. TStan is finding money which is more than MBob did.

Ironically, Auburn offered the HC job to CPJ. I wonder how folks would feel if he left and won a natty for them.

Rambling over coffee...

IF CPJ had won a natty at AU that would have been great! Being from middle Ga. area originally I know a lot of AU people and have been to games there. Great place. Plus, I like CPJ and would have loved for him to once and all end the larger questions about his brand of FB. You win natty's and the doubt goes away forever. In fact, there would be 5 or 6 schools in P5 trying to imitate it right now. As it is, I think the system will only be seen going forward at the service academies and small schools like the Citadel.

 

[Bogey]

Tech has a $70M annual budget and barely breaks even. Compared to other programs, we are short staffed virtually everywhere by comparison. I recall reading that Alabama for example, has over 100 tutors in player support.

CPJ simply claimed Tech has champagne tastes on a cola budget. TStan is finding money which is more than MBob did.

Ironically, Auburn offered the HC job to CPJ. I wonder how folks would feel if he left and won a natty for them.

Rambling over coffee...

CPJ also had Tstan as an AD. You may not can see it but CPJ could not sell his program to recruits or to big donors for whatever reasons and in today's P5 world, that is what it takes to be the kind of program most of us want to be. Whether we are able to recover and succeed in getting back near the top of college football is yet to be seen but by golly we are trying and not making excuses.

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[Vespidae]

CPJ also had Tstan as an AD. You may not can see it but CPJ could not sell his program to recruits or to big donors for whatever reasons

You may be right, but ... the AD bears responsibility for this. It's the AD's job to raise money. The recruits I get it. Moreso, the AD should be sitting down with the coach and going through ALL the metrics ... W-L, injuries, development, APR, season tix sales, media relations and asking the coach, "What can I do to support you?"

A coach without a strong AD is a boat without a rudder.

 

[Scubapro]

CPJ also had Tstan as an AD. You may not can see it but CPJ could not sell his program to recruits or to big donors for whatever reasons and in today's P5 world, that is what it takes to be the kind of program most of us want to be. Whether we are able to recover and succeed in getting back near the top of college football is yet to be seen but by golly we are trying and not making excuses.

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I hear CGC making excuses after each game...biggest rebuild of all time...Paul didn't have the support from the school or the AD (stansbury wasn't there for most of Paul's tenure so you cant tie them together)
The arms race in college football changed and the athletic department and school were willfully lacking in their ability to keep up.
Tech has NEVER recruited large numbers top talent...this is what is required to overcome sub par game day coaching.
It will take Geehoff four seasons to get to 12 total wins...he will be fired, then we will argue about why he couldn't get it done and why he was going to turn the corner.
The one constant in the past 50 years of Tech football is the unwillingness and lack of commitment to athletics by the Institute.

 

[LibertyTurns]

CPJ also had Tstan as an AD. You may not can see it but CPJ could not sell his program to recruits or to big donors for whatever reasons and in today's P5 world, that is what it takes to be the kind of program most of us want to be. Whether we are able to recover and succeed in getting back near the top of college football is yet to be seen but by golly we are trying and not making excuses.

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There were 3 legs to the CPJ stool as there are with every P5 coach in order to be successful- scheme, players & support. 2 legs of the stool were way too short & regardless of what anyone says he does own a fair amount of responsibility for the last 2. Not all of it he owns, but the parts he controlled are undeniably his.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

CPJ also had Tstan as an AD. You may not can see it but CPJ could not sell his program to recruits or to big donors for whatever reasons and in today's P5 world, that is what it takes to be the kind of program most of us want to be. Whether we are able to recover and succeed in getting back near the top of college football is yet to be seen but by golly we are trying and not making excuses.

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If TStan or somebody like him had been AD all during CPJ's tenure at Tech, the sky would have been the limit. But with only 2 years with TStan, it was too late by then.

 

[TooTall]

If TStan or somebody like him had been AD all during CPJ's tenure at Tech, the sky would have been the limit. But with only 2 years with TStan, it was too late by then.

In his resignation press conference, CPJ said he would have walked away sooner if AD TS hadn't been hired. It was very telling as to how the department was being ran.

Just as our players get better with each practice and game, our coaches will continue to improve.

 

[Scubapro]

This is the heart of where the disconnect occurs. People that hated the prior regime projecting their tactics onto the other side.

GT Fans without “coach or scheme” agendas want a GT Team to succeed. We want to leverage advantages (scheme, player smarts, technology, etc) and minimize disadvantages (talent disparities, smaller fanbase pool, etc).

I’ll call it the 3rd leg of the stool-

You had a decade of “fans” praying for a collapse because they hated the coach/scheme so bad. It wasn’t subtle hatred, it was outright vocal, visible, etc hatred.

Now you got the side that just wants to poke at the new regime using the same old tactics that were being used against the old regime. It’s not the same though because I don’t hear the clamoring for failure to oust the new staff like I did with the old staff.

Then you got my camp. I just want GT to succeed. I’ll point out failures or question strategy and get labeled a hater. I’ll point out successes and get painted as a fanboy.

I’m neither. I’m just a GT Fan that looks at reality and makes my own mind up whether I like something or not. I just wish the lunatic fringe on both sides would take a siesta and think about being GT Fans for a while because the old system is not coming back and the new system is going to be with us for a while. Successes are likely going to be hard to find among the growing pains of an inexperienced staff, a massive self-inflicted culture change that is part of CGC’s grand strategy, etc and it’s going to take 3-4 years before this experiment is either going to work or not.

Edit- oust the staff except for P’nut who there’s many that would prefer to see him go now

I feel much the same way...I am not drinking cool aid from Collins though...his little marketing ploys ring hollow without results on the field.