Northwestern Univ players can unionize...

OldJacketFan

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Question.

If student athletics are employees, who are they employees of, the athletic association or the university? What about GT and UGA etc who are part of the University System of Georgia? Who is the employer?

And, as a previous poster noted, are they liable for federal and state income taxes? As a student I would hate to pay the taxes on a scholarship at Northwestern, $45, 527.00 for 2013-14.

In my mind it would be the legal entity that co signed the LOI. That's the binding contract.
 

Rodney Kent

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Let's go back to a more rational day when the recruits were glad to get a free education while playing a game they love, and getting the chance to show their wares to the NFL scouts. Free education, free housing, free food, free medical, personal tutoring, exposure to pro scouts, etal. Right now, they have it all, but are going to kill the chicken that lays the golden egg.

Let's rid colleges and universities of sports and let the NFL, NBA, etal create farm teams such as baseball. If kid wants an education, he can pay his own way just like the other students. The colleges and universities can still have intramural teams for those who would like to participate in some form of sports. Of course, each participant would be responsible for his own injuries if he gets hurt while playing intramural sports.

Also, those playing on the farm teams in the minor leagues of sports, would have to produce or lose their jobs. However, if they lost their job, they have no education to fall back on. As of now, college football is a win-win proposition for the kids.

For all recruits presently entering college, they have every opportunity to get a degree and learn as much as they wish. If a college player does not get a good education, it is nobody's fault but his own. If he skips classes and fails to study, it is his own fault. The opportunity is there, and there are tutors who will even help him learn while attending college and playing his sport.

There is this underlying belief in today's society that the world owes each individual all of his desires and wishes. The real truth is that the world does not owe any of us anything. If we want it, we must work hard to get it. The government has no money, it must get it from the working folks. Anyone getting a free ride is doing it off the backs of someone else who is having to pay for their free ride.

This actually goes deeper than college sports. It is necessary to include the truth of the matter. The present government administration is out to destroy the economy of America so we will give up our sovereignty to a one-world government. The union is in bed with the government to help create this situation. This is just another step in government and unionization to help destroy America's economy and our traditions.
 

OldJacketFan

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Let's go back to a more rational day when the recruits were glad to get a free education while playing a game they love, and getting the chance to show their wares to the NFL scouts. Free education, free housing, free food, free medical, personal tutoring, exposure to pro scouts, etal. Right now, they have it all, but are going to kill the chicken that lays the golden egg.

Let's rid colleges and universities of sports and let the NFL, NBA, etal create farm teams such as baseball. If kid wants an education, he can pay his own way just like the other students. The colleges and universities can still have intramural teams for those who would like to participate in some form of sports. Of course, each participant would be responsible for his own injuries if he gets hurt while playing intramural sports.

Also, those playing on the farm teams in the minor leagues of sports, would have to produce or lose their jobs. However, if they lost their job, they have no education to fall back on. As of now, college football is a win-win proposition for the kids.

For all recruits presently entering college, they have every opportunity to get a degree and learn as much as they wish. If a college player does not get a good education, it is nobody's fault but his own. If he skips classes and fails to study, it is his own fault. The opportunity is there, and there are tutors who will even help him learn while attending college and playing his sport.

There is this underlying belief in today's society that the world owes each individual all of his desires and wishes. The real truth is that the world does not owe any of us anything. If we want it, we must work hard to get it. The government has no money, it must get it from the working folks. Anyone getting a free ride is doing it off the backs of someone else who is having to pay for their free ride.

This actually goes deeper than college sports. It is necessary to include the truth of the matter. The present government administration is out to destroy the economy of America so we will give up our sovereignty to a one-world government. The union is in bed with the government to help create this situation. This is just another step in government and unionization to help destroy America's economy and our traditions.

I'm sorry but this I disagree with most of your post. You anti union position is noted. I'm not going to get into a running commentary with you on this but suffice to say there is ample evidence to support to the NLRB ruling.
 

Tech First

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Let's go back to a more rational day when the recruits were glad to get a free education while playing a game they love, and getting the chance to show their wares to the NFL scouts. Free education, free housing, free food, free medical, personal tutoring, exposure to pro scouts, etal. Right now, they have it all, but are going to kill the chicken that lays the golden egg.

Let's rid colleges and universities of sports and let the NFL, NBA, etal create farm teams such as baseball. If kid wants an education, he can pay his own way just like the other students. The colleges and universities can still have intramural teams for those who would like to participate in some form of sports. Of course, each participant would be responsible for his own injuries if he gets hurt while playing intramural sports.

Also, those playing on the farm teams in the minor leagues of sports, would have to produce or lose their jobs. However, if they lost their job, they have no education to fall back on. As of now, college football is a win-win proposition for the kids.

For all recruits presently entering college, they have every opportunity to get a degree and learn as much as they wish. If a college player does not get a good education, it is nobody's fault but his own. If he skips classes and fails to study, it is his own fault. The opportunity is there, and there are tutors who will even help him learn while attending college and playing his sport.

There is this underlying belief in today's society that the world owes each individual all of his desires and wishes. The real truth is that the world does not owe any of us anything. If we want it, we must work hard to get it. The government has no money, it must get it from the working folks. Anyone getting a free ride is doing it off the backs of someone else who is having to pay for their free ride.

This actually goes deeper than college sports. It is necessary to include the truth of the matter. The present government administration is out to destroy the economy of America so we will give up our sovereignty to a one-world government. The union is in bed with the government to help create this situation. This is just another step in government and unionization to help destroy America's economy and our traditions.

I agree.
 

GTNavyNuke

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Happen to see this.......
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Why on earth would a scholarship player be going to bed hungry? Isn't room and board part of their scholarship?

Another article on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/07/us/ncaa-basketball-finals-shabazz-napier-hungry/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A chicken in every pot is what the politicians should promise. (tic)

Seriously, I like the baseball model the best of major collegiate sports. Kids can go into the farm league straight out of HS. But if they go to college they are there for 3 (?) years. So there is a lot less money in collegiate baseball and it is much more about the team and school. Or they go get paid according to their ability to produce entertainment value (e..g.play sports). That model could work for football and basketball.

Tonight y'all get to witness the Kentucky farce of 4-5 probable one and done players which the NCAA calls student-athletes. I'll watch something else on Amazon Prime.
 

OldJacketFan

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Another article on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/07/us/ncaa-basketball-finals-shabazz-napier-hungry/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A chicken in every pot is what the politicians should promise. (tic)

Seriously, I like the baseball model the best of major collegiate sports. Kids can go into the farm league straight out of HS. But if they go to college they are there for 3 (?) years. So there is a lot less money in collegiate baseball and it is much more about the team and school. Or they go get paid according to their ability to produce entertainment value (e..g.play sports). That model could work for football and basketball.

Tonight y'all get to witness the Kentucky farce of 4-5 probable one and done players which the NCAA calls student-athletes. I'll watch something else on Amazon Prime.

I've said this for years, if you enroll you're there for 3 years. Football and baseball have this as a working model for years. Basketball, IMO, has suffered greatly at the collegiate and PRO level by the one and done rule. The NBA could address this in their collective bargaining agreement. For whatever reason, they've decided not to address it.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I've said this for years, if you enroll you're there for 3 years. Football and baseball have this as a working model for years. Basketball, IMO, has suffered greatly at the collegiate and PRO level by the one and done rule. The NBA could address this in their collective bargaining agreement. For whatever reason, they've decided not to address it.
Football and baseball, to a lesser extent, require more physical maturity that your typical college soph. Basketballers, not so much.
 

OldJacketFan

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Football and baseball, to a lesser extent, require more physical maturity that your typical college soph. Basketballers, not so much.

That's true to a certain extent though I've seen some 19-20 year olds on the major league level. But more on point is the 3 year rule versus the one and one. Neither the NFL or NBA want to foot the same cost that MLB does and why should they when they have the NCAA? MLB realized a long time ago they could not have the number of players developing in the collegiate ranks as they do in their minor leagues. Most MLB teams have between 6-7 minor league teams carrying 25 or more players. Drafting baseball players is the biggest crap shoot in pro sports which is the biggest reasons why MLB operates as they do.
 

Animal02

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"they certainly are not employees in the traditional sense." The NLRB disagrees with you. Not saying it's right but when you look at the legal definition of an "employee" the ruling is sound

Definition: An employee is a person hired by another person (an employer) to perform a job. A worker is considered an employee if the employer controls what work will be done and how it will be done. What is important is that the company has the right to control and manage the details of how and when the work is performed.
The employer compensates the employee for his work, either through a specific wage or salary. This relationship between the employee and employer is established by a written or understood contract.

Lots of legal fun times ahead for college football.

And the players are not getting a wage or salary. If it does "stand" I see schools moving to "athletic major" where the practices and performances are part of the requirement for the degree.
 

OldJacketFan

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And the players are not getting a wage or salary. If it does "stand" I see schools moving to "athletic major" where the practices and performances are part of the requirement for the degree.

As to "wages" if you read the decision you'll see it's not that clear cut. Players who live off campus receive a monetary stipend to offset the cost. Additionally, it's arguable the scholarship and all it provides could be considered "wages" as well. As I said earlier there are a number of intriguing issues yet to be addressed or resolved. For instance, at schools that offer one year, renewable scholarships does the student athlete have the right of refusal to be able to go elsewhere without penalty ala "free agency" since it is entirely in the school purview to renew or non renew?
 

dressedcheeseside

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If a scholarship = wages, does that mean all scholarship students are employees? This thing could really have far reaching implications.
 

OldJacketFan

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If a scholarship = wages, does that mean all scholarship students are employees? This thing could really have far reaching implications.

I would think that with students on a academic scholarships is wouldn't qualify as "employees" since the school doesn't exhibit the control over an academic scholar that it does over an athletic scholar. This is somewhat addressed in the NLRB ruling in the supporting text that invalidated an area of contention raised by Northwestern. A single element is not sufficient to establish an employer/employee relationship.

As you see all sort of interesting issues come to light! ;)
 

awbuzz

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But some pretty lipstick... the going to bed hungry - while I'm sure is true - is most likely due to the individual not making smart decisions/plans.

As noted, players who live off campus receive a monetary stipend to offset the cost. Some of them "buddy up" with others and don't blow it all on rent, thus ending up with some spending money. All on the up and up.

While I feel bad for Brad J's child issue, that was a life decision he made...

No one is forcing any of the "players" to stay in school and stay on the team. With that said, I do think that the NCAA should have a fund to offset injury costs for the players.
 

Animal02

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But some pretty lipstick... the going to bed hungry - while I'm sure is true - is most likely due to the individual not making smart decisions/plans.

As noted, players who live off campus receive a monetary stipend to offset the cost. Some of them "buddy up" with others and don't blow it all on rent, thus ending up with some spending money. All on the up and up.

While I feel bad for Brad J's child issue, that was a life decision he made...

No one is forcing any of the "players" to stay in school and stay on the team. With that said, I do think that the NCAA should have a fund to offset injury costs for the players.

Yes, there is no reason, with the money that is being brought in, that they could not have insurance for all athletes. Heck, Michigan requires unlimited lifetime coverage for medical expenses which result from auto accidents. It cost $186.00/yr per vehicle. (The first 530k is paid through regular insurance, anything over that is paid from the fund created by that extra charge) Why not slap on modest fee for tickets and carve out some of the TV payout to fund it.
 
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