North Carolina Hires New DC - Geoff Collins

[GTRambler]

No wonder it took GT President Angel Cabrera to move and clean up that mess.

 

[reckrider]

Three wins, three years straight, Juanyeh. I respect everything you did for GT. But he was an awful coach.

 

[iceeater1969]

People keep talking about incompetence. Collins was the wrong coach.

Stansbury wasn’t in a weak bargaining position. The contract was expensive on purpose.

When Cortes prepared to fight Montezuma, he burned his ships so his soldiers couldn’t run away. They were committed to fight because they had no other options.

P B S : C o n q u i s t a d o r s - C o r t é s

The Conquistadors is a four-part series airing on PBS in Spring 2001. The Conquistadors website explores the adventures of Hernan Cortes, Francisco Pizarro, Fracisco de Orellana and Cabeza de Vaca in the New World as Michael Wood retraces their journeys in modern-day South America and the...

www.pbs.org

The contract was on purpose. It locked us into Collins. There were no escape clauses for a reason—so Collins couldn’t get fired. So he would have time to execute his plan for seven years—or close to it.

When people say “why didn’t our board or staff do these typical things to give us a way to get rid of Collins?”, they miss the entire point—we were never supposed to get rid of Collins. It was on purpose.

if you ask why there weren’t normal “outs”, it’s because they weren’t supposed to be there.

It’s simple

TFP convinced TStan that since it would take a long time with ups and downs, he needed to make the contract iron clad.
(Notice the New Prez was totally involved in Batt AND KEY WAS HIRED.).

THE FORMER PREZ WAS. AWOL.

.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

This isn't my area of practice, but I thought "a claw back " provision was pretty much the standard in the industry. Coach Collins certainly didn't have the leverage to omit this from the contract. This is absolutely pathetic- any lawyer advising Tech would have told our AD that the way things ended was certainly foreseeable. Unfortunately, this will probably cost Tech between 2-3 million dollars.

He absolutely had the leverage, which is why he got seven years and no claw back.

 

[gorcone]

I really really hate that there is so much conversation now about this POS. I really want him to go away.

 

[slugboy]

TFP convinced TStan that since it would take a long time with ups and downs, he needed to make the contract iron clad.
(Notice the New Prez was totally involved in Batt AND KEY WAS HIRED.).

THE FORMER PREZ WAS. AWOL.

.

Not TFP. Everyone was saying that. TStan wasn’t hoodwinked.

People saw what happened at Ga Southern, where they brought in Van Gorder to get rid of Johnson’s flex option. Southern got rid of Van Gorder after one year, then Hatcher, then back to the flex option. The boosters and execs wanted to make sure the fans didn’t get cold feet and scream for us to go back to the “triple option” the way that Ga Southern did. So, they went all in on Collins and locked him in.

The contract was so we’d never go back to the triple option. Not because Collins was glib.

While we were in the stands enjoying the game, big boosters who felt like CPJ didn’t play big boy football wanted to make sure it went away forever. Collins was just a means to an end.

 

[jgtengineer]

Not TFP. Everyone was saying that. TStan wasn’t hoodwinked.

People saw what happened at Ga Southern, where they brought in Van Gorder to get rid of Johnson’s flex option. Southern got rid of Van Gorder after one year, then Hatcher, then back to the flex option. The boosters and execs wanted to make sure the fans didn’t get cold feet and scream for us to go back to the “triple option” the way that Ga Southern did. So, they went all in on Collins and locked him in.

The contract was so we’d never go back to the triple option. Not because Collins was glib.

While we were in the stands enjoying the game, big boosters who felt like CPJ didn’t play big boy football wanted to make sure it went away forever. Collins was just a means to an end.

Its even "funnier" in that southern did it twice.

Vangorder comes in to get rid of the option he failed so bad he quit he wasn't fired. he just quit and left town. hatcher ran an air raid. He did that for one year with the tag line "we pitch it forward" it didn't work so he brought in a a couple guys to build a shot gun option offense. That was good enough for a couple decent but nto great seasons. then hatcher was gone and thry brought in monken and boom success. After monken you get fritz but Kleinlien the AD didn't want to be an option school so he ran fritz off by not paying him and brought in Tyson summers who was from south georgia "always follwoed georgia southern" and pretty much inser same **** collins said here.

Summers brought in a bunch of southern grads and former athletes to coach positions and then brought in a retread duo of hatcher ocs to create the hat h attack air raid mark 2 when that failed summers brought in bryan cook who tried to hybrid it (like chip long). It failed miserably then lundford took over put the option back in place (fritz style with debasse from new mexico) and they won until he lost control of the program due to well lundsford was a chair smashing Georgia southern grad through and through and ran the program like it was blue mountain state. Eventually that caught up with him. and when he was fired for the kid shto gunnign a beer on top of the yellow schoolbus dure the pep rally they asked Coach Johnson if he was interested reports were Johnson is actually really happy being retired. So they went out and got Helton.

Helton installed the air raid grabbed a transfer QB and hit the ground running(passing). his second transfer QB bryn has not worked out and they had a down year due to it but they got a guy that was recruited who should be right ready to play.

Collins was painful to me because i had already gone through it... twice.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

What I’ve heard is that until he got to Tech he had a habit of taking jobs that good coaches had left and riding the coattails of his predecessors to give the impression that he was good at his job. It makes sense. Look at his predecessors at those jobs: Manny Diaz at Mississippi State (and except for his last year there, he was working with Manny’s co-DC, allowing for easy continuity) and Muschamp/Durkin at Florida. Even at Temple he got to follow Matt Rhule, who was the most successful coach in school history.

Was reading this thread waiting for someone to say this. I never saw any evidence that Collins could build a defense or a program. As you point out, he usually followed good coaches or came into established programs. And usually left them a little worse for the wear.

As one of our moderators suggested, there is also no evidence that Collins learns from his mistakes because he would first have to admit them. If he strolls into Chapel Hill like he’s all that and a bag of chips it could set UNC back as a program for several years.

And, to be clear, I wouldn’t wish Collins on anyone except the dawgs.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Not TFP. Everyone was saying that. TStan wasn’t hoodwinked.

People saw what happened at Ga Southern, where they brought in Van Gorder to get rid of Johnson’s flex option. Southern got rid of Van Gorder after one year, then Hatcher, then back to the flex option. The boosters and execs wanted to make sure the fans didn’t get cold feet and scream for us to go back to the “triple option” the way that Ga Southern did. So, they went all in on Collins and locked him in.

The contract was so we’d never go back to the triple option. Not because Collins was glib.

While we were in the stands enjoying the game, big boosters who felt like CPJ didn’t play big boy football wanted to make sure it went away forever. Collins was just a means to an end.

There is a lot of truth to this. I do think Collins was aware of the situation and used that leverage to his advantage in negotiating his contract. But the desire to move away from CPJ's offense locked us into fewer options and set us on a course for disaster.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

TFG was a very good DC before becoming a HC. I get it...we can't stand him because of the damage he did here, but he led some good defenses at several schools.

Having a strong HC like Mack Brown should help to keep TFG reined in.

Conventional wisdom says he was a good defensive coach. I was never convinced. I predict UNC will not see any improvement in its defense.

 

[ThatGuy]

This isn't my area of practice, but I thought "a claw back " provision was pretty much the standard in the industry. Coach Collins certainly didn't have the leverage to omit this from the contract. This is absolutely pathetic- any lawyer advising Tech would have told our AD that the way things ended was certainly foreseeable. Unfortunately, this will probably cost Tech between 2-3 million dollars.

Be that as it may…

There doesn’t appear to be any such provision in MoBS’ contract. Section 10.2 is what you’re looking for, I believe.

 

[Root4GT]

I respect that he played for him, but sometimes you have to look at the entire picture…

And sometimes stop bashing a former coach is better than spewing hate against the guy. He was a bad HC at GT. It happens. Time to let it go.

 

[ThatGuy]

I respect that he played for him, but sometimes you have to look at the entire picture…

I think many Tech fans were frustrated with TFG, but were glad to just let him walk away…

…until he started trying to drag us through the dirt on Twitter every chance he got, like a 14 year-old middle school girl who got dumped by her boyfriend. It was not a good look. (That, and making a point to publicly buddy up to our rivals. Followed by supposedly leaking news of our defensive staff changes to the press, which led to them having to be abruptly pulled off the recruiting trail). It was pretty pathetic, for someone being paid $11M to not coach.

Yeh is definitely not seeing the full picture here.

 

[JTS]

Reminds me of when the Miami hired Patrick Nix away to be their OC.

 

[bikeseat]

Not sure why these guys carry so much water for a guy that that ruined their careers record wise. It worked out for Juanyeh but he's the exception. This whiny mentality CGC created is just what key is changing thankfully.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think many Tech fans were frustrated with TFG, but were glad to just let him walk away…

…until he started trying to drag us through the dirt on Twitter every chance he got, like a 14 year-old middle school girl who got dumped by her boyfriend. It was not a good look. (That, and making a point to publicly buddy up to our rivals. Followed by supposedly leaking news of our defensive staff changes to the press, which led to them having to be abruptly pulled off the recruiting trail). It was pretty pathetic, for someone being paid $11M to not coach.

Yeh is definitely not seeing the full picture here.

This.

Sociopaths only look out for themselves and only care about themselves. What we now see is that Collins was not just a bad coach and a bad hire. He was much worse than that. He professed deep abiding love for Tech, not because he actually gave a rats a$$ about Tech, but because he was promoting himself. When he could no longer work his con there was no further reason for him to “love” Tech. His wounded ego because he was “so mistreated” by Tech means the only way he can maintain his self deception is make it everyone else’s fault that he was fired.

The only advantage UNC will have is that Collins will not be allowed to be the face of the program there. He will have a leash on him that will keep him from showboating quite as much. But it will be a tenuous relationship and will not promote a healthy culture in the program.

Somebody explain to me what in the world UNC was thinking.

 

[orientalnc]

I sent my UNC neighbor a two word text yesterday and he has not responded. He & I are part of a Saturday morning breakfast group. I wonder if he shows?

"Geoff Collins???"

 

[stinger78]

People keep talking about incompetence. Collins was the wrong coach.

Stansbury wasn’t in a weak bargaining position. The contract was expensive on purpose.

When Cortes prepared to fight Montezuma, he burned his ships so his soldiers couldn’t run away. They were committed to fight because they had no other options.

P B S : C o n q u i s t a d o r s - C o r t é s

The Conquistadors is a four-part series airing on PBS in Spring 2001. The Conquistadors website explores the adventures of Hernan Cortes, Francisco Pizarro, Fracisco de Orellana and Cabeza de Vaca in the New World as Michael Wood retraces their journeys in modern-day South America and the...

www.pbs.org

The contract was on purpose. It locked us into Collins. There were no escape clauses for a reason—so Collins couldn’t get fired. So he would have time to execute his plan for seven years—or close to it.

When people say “why didn’t our board or staff do these typical things to give us a way to get rid of Collins?”, they miss the entire point—we were never supposed to get rid of Collins. It was on purpose.

if you ask why there weren’t normal “outs”, it’s because they weren’t supposed to be there.

It’s simple

When you’re dealing with an accomplished General that’s one thing, but dealing with an inexperienced head coach it’s stupid, IMPO.

 

[Southern psu fan]

I’m just like y’all, this dude Geoff Collins leaves a bad taste in my mouth but one of my buddies on the Penn St forum said he’s a very good DC. I believe I’ve heard a few of y’all say the same thing so I thought I would throw that out there because Roaminglion knows football and I do trust his judgment.

 

[slugboy]

There is a lot of truth to this. I do think Collins was aware of the situation and used that leverage to his advantage in negotiating his contract. But the desire to move away from CPJ's offense locked us into fewer options and set us on a course for disaster.

I suspect the parameters of the contract had already been thought out for Whisenhunt. He’d have had that contract if the hiring process hadn’t blown up. He was a better fit in a lot of ways—“bring us NFL-style big boy football, and get rid of this high school offense”.

When we interviewed candidates, they were asked how quickly they could transition us away from the option.

If everything went according to plan, we’d have never interviewed Collins. There was a transition plan in place, and they leaked the new coach, and fans freaked out and thought Whisenhunt was “Chan 2.0”. Whiz backed out, and Stansbury interviewed coaches to fill the hole in the plan. Collins agreed happily to everything in order to get the job.

A lot of the things Collins did on day 1 were to make particular people happy. The contract was to make sure he completed the job.

When you’re dealing with an accomplished General that’s one thing, but dealing with an inexperienced head coach it’s stupid, IMPO.

Collins wasn’t Cortes here. He’s not the one who burned the ships. It was Stansbury and the big boosters. The contract was to lock in Tech fans into the transition. It was to make sure we didn’t hire Fritz or Monken after a year. Again, look at Georgia Southern.

Collins is just the coach who agreed to do the job. The contract was to lock the plan into place—Collins was along for the ride.

He was hired to make the “greatest transition in college football”. Collins used those words, but that was what he was interviewed and hired to do. The contract was for the coach who was making the greatest transition in college football, and Collins was the puzzle piece that filled the empty hole.

For his part, he got to implement his practices with DJs and the things that a lot of fans hated—“Money Down” and players lifting weights on the sidelines—but that was because he agreed to rip out his predecessor’s work abruptly and immediately and implement “Pro-style” things. He even tacked the words “pro style” onto the RPO offense to make the boosters happy.

A stronger willed and wiser coach would have had a plan to transition gradually from the flex option. That stronger willed and wiser coach was never going to make it past the first round of interviews, because “gradual” was the opposite of what was desired. @stinger78 , anyone who met your definition was exactly the kind of coach who was going to get washed out of the process.

A lot of people are mad at Collins and Patenaude for doing what they were mostly told to do.