NIL, Transfers, and Stratospheric Salaries. What Is the Future of GT Football and College Football in General?

[SOWEGA Jacket]

If the athletic associations actually care about the student-athletes as people and not just as cattle to perform athletic entertainment work, they should go out of their way to teach them how to manage contracts, taxes, and money. I know that neither a coach nor an athletic association can teach contract law, tax law, nor good money habits in an hour, or even in a couple of years. They could provide access to seminars and information. They could provide warnings about watching out for people who try to take your money instead of give you money. I have not been involved in any way, but it just appears to me that too many believe that if they can purchase a Hellcat, then everything is great. Even if it is obvious to other people that they are going to be broke before they leave school with tens of thousands of debt to the IRS. You can't prevent other people from doing stupid things with money, but you can provide guidance. If you provide mentoring and guidance and the person still does stupid things and gets into trouble, then that is on them.

This is just not accurate in any way. Student athletes are cattle just like every other student and professor. The athletic association’s job is NOT to care. It’s to run the athletic association. Colleges are money making ventures and every student, athlete, or professor gets a piece of the pie through their brief association with the school. It is up to the individual to use the college to help themselves in what ever way the individual decides. It is not up to the college to do anything for the individual.

NIL is a good thing for those schools and students who use it properly, no different than any other tool in life.

 

[orientalnc]

I found this data interesting, but the NIL thread might not be the correct place to share it. There have been lots of comments about rich schools and how GT ranks as opposed to them. That's a real issue in some cases, but GT is not in bad shape financially. This table (I selected these schools from the source) shows the most to least economically diverse schools based on the per cent of freshmen receiving Pell grants. I picked LSU and Rutgers because they are the most economically diverse SEC and B1G schools.

The really interesting thing is that our undergrad diversity looks more like a private school than a public university.

Pell share rank​	College​	State​	Type​	Freshmen Pell share​	Pell change since 2011​	Total undergraduates​	Endowment per student​	Net price, mid-income​
48	Louisiana State University	La.	Public	29%​	+9	27,800	$28,000	$20,400
63	Rutgers University	N.J.	Public	26%​	-3	35,800	$40,000	$15,100
71	Florida State University	Fla.	Public	25%​	-3	32,500	$28,000	$10,700
71	University of California, Berkeley	Calif.	Public	25%​	-2	30,800	$91,000	$14,400
117	University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill	N.C.	Public	21%​	+1	19,400	$276,000	$13,500
133	Stanford University	Calif.	Private	20%​	+4	6,400	$5,969,000	$4,600
166	Syracuse University	N.Y.	Private	18%​	-7	14,500	$106,000	$21,400
166	North Carolina State University	N.C.	Public	18%​	-7	26,200	$79,000	$13,400
186	University of Pittsburgh	Pa.	Public	17%​	+1	23,200	$278,000	$24,800
207	Virginia Polytechnic Institute	Va.	Public	16%​	+1	30,000	$54,000	$18,100
230	University of Miami	Fla.	Private	14%​	-8	11,300	$120,000	$19,100
248	Clemson University	S.C.	Public	13%​	-4	20,900	$47,000	$20,800
248	University of Virginia	Va.	Public	13%​	0	17,300	$598,000	$14,600
257	Boston College	Mass.	Private	12%​	-4	9,800	$379,000	$12,800
257	Duke University	N.C.	Private	12%​	-1	6,700	$1,607,000	$10,300
257	Georgia Institute of Technology	Ga.	Public	12%​	-5	16,600	$183,000	$14,800
257	University of Notre Dame	Ind.	Private	12%​	0	8,900	$1,868,000	$14,600
271	Wake Forest University	N.C.	Private	10%​	-4	5,400	$339,000	$10,000
279	Southern Methodist University	Texas	Private	9%​	-6	6,800	$291,000	$31,700

 

[orientalnc]

Here is the link to the source data, but it may be behind a paywall.

The Top U.S. Colleges With the Greatest Economic Diversity

The college access index 2023.

www.nytimes.com

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Which is why it sucks that the last decade or so the NCAA was led by an SEC clown. Someone smarter would have encouraged the players to form a union and negotiated a CBA so college football could have remained a competitive 120 team league.

Instead we have a ridiculously lopsided system thars reduced to about 10 viable teams if I’m being generous that has landed only slightly more unique teams in the 4 team playoffs than the NFL has landed in the 2 team Super Bowl.

The second the players unionize I am calling Tech to cancel all my planned donations and my season ticket purchases.

 

[ilovetheoption]

The second the players unionize I am calling Tech to cancel all my planned donations and my season ticket purchases.

Why

 

[forensicbuzz]

The NCAA is not enforcing the NIL rules at all. As I said before, most football and men's basketball "NIL" deals are not about anything related to using the name, image, or likeness of the athlete for any business purpose. They are simply paying the athletes.

Agents do more than simply front money. Agents market the athletes and represent the athletes in contract negotiations. I don't know what the agreement in this case was, but it sounds a lot more like insurance against failure. Many athletes get money upfront and then only repay if they make it big in professional sports. I know that the NCAA has allowed athletes to purchase income insurance for injuries. I believe they have even allowed schools to pay for that insurance, with limits based on actual or reasonable income projections. I don't see what problem the NCAA should have with this company if they are not representing the athletes as professionals, but simply paying them up front for a cut on the backend if they are successful. I don't think it should be something that the NCAA would worry about or get involved in. On the other hand, this business seems a lot like payday lenders. It appears to me that it targets poor people who don't know any better and traps them. (This contract traps him for 20 years and payday lenders trap people into a spiral of never-ending borrowing and interest charges) I don't like either business types. I think both are predatory. I think the same thing about casinos.

This is exactly what agents do to tie up young talent. As others have said, it happens all the time in the minor leagues in baseball. It also happens after football players end their eligibility and are preparing for the draft or upcoming NFL mini-camps. The agents are fronting the money with the expectation of future earnings. They're gambling on these guys making it and their payoff being big. This is nothing like an insurance policy. The insurance policies you're talking about are for when a high talent player is injured and not able to capitalize on the promise of a big contract. An insurance policy doesn't pay out unless there is a loss.

What essentially was done was this kid took money from an agent or an agency that is fronting money based on future earnings. That is not NIL, that is NOT pay-for-play. This is what makes a player ineligible and can get UF in major trouble if the NCAA were enforcing the rules. Yes, the NCAA is turning a blind eye to the pay-for-play NIL racket, but this is not that.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Why

I have no interest supporting unionized college athletes.

 

[orientalnc]

I have no interest supporting unionized college athletes.

But the lying and cheating college athletes are OK? Hmmm...

 

[leatherneckjacket]

But the lying and cheating college athletes are OK? Hmmm...

Wow. Lots to unravel here.

First, who said I am OK with anyone lying or cheating?

Second, are you suggesting GT has a bunch of lying and cheating athletes?

Third, are you suggesting my continuing to make donations to GT and purchase season tickets is akin to supporting lying and cheating athletes?

Let me clear. I am adamently opposed to unions. They had a place when there were no rules on how employees were treated or work place safety. Now, they are used to funnel money to one corrupt political party.

Unions in professional sports are idiotic, but who cares. Let the millionaires fight with the billionaires. Unions in college sports is a deal breaker and ends my support of college athletics.

 

[LargeFO]

I love how Mac Brown is throwing a fit about ONE waiver denial after a slap on the wrist with decades of academic fraud.

 

[orientalnc]

@leatherneckjacket Do you think GT is clean in the current era of NIL abuse? Or in past with under the table payments? Sir, we got caught doing it!

 

[g0lftime]

While you and @forensicbuzz make good points, I don't think the deal was postured as either insurance or NIL. It's pitched as an advance against future earnings. The results of his litigation will be interesting.
The deal was signed prior to his 2022 season. Since it's now public, the NCAA can't just pretend they didn't know about it. But as long as it wasn't used as a "pay for play" at Florida or a recruiting inducement, they may not see a problem since it wasn't directly associated with the university.ec

Didn't Hershel Walker have to turn pro when it was discovered an agent had paid him while at UGA. These advances seem like violations to me. They are not receiving compensation for NIL services.

 

[g0lftime]

I found this data interesting, but the NIL thread might not be the correct place to share it. There have been lots of comments about rich schools and how GT ranks as opposed to them. That's a real issue in some cases, but GT is not in bad shape financially. This table (I selected these schools from the source) shows the most to least economically diverse schools based on the per cent of freshmen receiving Pell grants. I picked LSU and Rutgers because they are the most economically diverse SEC and B1G schools.

The really interesting thing is that our undergrad diversity looks more like a private school than a public university.

Pell share rank​	College​	State​	Type​	Freshmen Pell share​	Pell change since 2011​	Total undergraduates​	Endowment per student​	Net price, mid-income​
48	Louisiana State University	La.	Public	29%​	+9	27,800	$28,000	$20,400
63	Rutgers University	N.J.	Public	26%​	-3	35,800	$40,000	$15,100
71	Florida State University	Fla.	Public	25%​	-3	32,500	$28,000	$10,700
71	University of California, Berkeley	Calif.	Public	25%​	-2	30,800	$91,000	$14,400
117	University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill	N.C.	Public	21%​	+1	19,400	$276,000	$13,500
133	Stanford University	Calif.	Private	20%​	+4	6,400	$5,969,000	$4,600
166	Syracuse University	N.Y.	Private	18%​	-7	14,500	$106,000	$21,400
166	North Carolina State University	N.C.	Public	18%​	-7	26,200	$79,000	$13,400
186	University of Pittsburgh	Pa.	Public	17%​	+1	23,200	$278,000	$24,800
207	Virginia Polytechnic Institute	Va.	Public	16%​	+1	30,000	$54,000	$18,100
230	University of Miami	Fla.	Private	14%​	-8	11,300	$120,000	$19,100
248	Clemson University	S.C.	Public	13%​	-4	20,900	$47,000	$20,800
248	University of Virginia	Va.	Public	13%​	0	17,300	$598,000	$14,600
257	Boston College	Mass.	Private	12%​	-4	9,800	$379,000	$12,800
257	Duke University	N.C.	Private	12%​	-1	6,700	$1,607,000	$10,300
257	Georgia Institute of Technology	Ga.	Public	12%​	-5	16,600	$183,000	$14,800
257	University of Notre Dame	Ind.	Private	12%​	0	8,900	$1,868,000	$14,600
271	Wake Forest University	N.C.	Private	10%​	-4	5,400	$339,000	$10,000
279	Southern Methodist University	Texas	Private	9%​	-6	6,800	$291,000	$31,700

Hope scholarship probably helps GT some.

 

[forensicbuzz]

@leatherneckjacket Do you think GT is clean in the current era of NIL abuse? Or in past with under the table payments? Sir, we got caught doing it!

Please provide details of us getting caught (and don't use D. Thomas).

 

[orientalnc]

Please provide details of us getting caught (and don't use D. Thomas).

Carter. LaBarrie. Thomas. Do you think we are so clumsy at cheating that we always get caught? I am more optimistic about our abilities than you perhaps.

 

[roadkill]

Didn't Hershel Walker have to turn pro when it was discovered an agent had paid him while at UGA. These advances seem like violations to me. They are not receiving compensation for NIL services.

What has changed due to the most recent Supreme Court decision against the NCAA, is that the NCAA is now careful to avoid being seen as limiting athlete's compensation. This is what tripped them up relative to antitrust law.

 

[cpf2001]

I am adamently opposed to unions. They had a place when there were no rules on how employees were treated or work place safety.

“Athletic association brings in tens of millions and players get a pittance of it despite being the ones we want to see and the ones putting their bodies on the line” seems like a quite reasonable reason along those same lines to me.

(Grad students in STEM research should be right behind them in line too. But at least industry doesn’t prevent them from just jumping straight to a payday if they want.)

 

[Vespidae]

“Athletic association brings in tens of millions and players get a pittance of it despite being the ones we want to see and the ones putting their bodies on the line” seems like a quite reasonable reason along those same lines to me.

(Grad students in STEM research should be right behind them in line too. But at least industry doesn’t prevent them from just jumping straight to a payday if they want.)

Athletic Associations also carry enormous expenses, none of which players have to contribute towards. Of the D1 programs, 80% are breakeven or operating at a loss.

”In 2019, only 25 of 130 schools in the high-grossing Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) whose members are large, mostly public universities (with some exceptions such as Notre Dame, Northwestern, and Stanford) reported positive net revenues (see here). In fact, the median athletic program in FBS in 2019 (the last pre-pandemic year) had an operating deficit of $18.8 million.“

 

[cpf2001]

Athletic Associations also carry enormous expenses, none of which players have to contribute towards. Of the D1 programs, 80% are breakeven or operating at a loss.

Few could afford as many shiny buildings and large administrative staffs for sure. Is that so bad?

 

[Vespidae]

Few could afford as many shiny buildings and large administrative staffs for sure. Is that so bad?

If players want a percentage of th revenues, they should get a percentage of the expenses too. This will have to be transparent… which means unionization.

“Fundamentally, the choices are to move toward unfettered commercialization, allowing relatively free and open labor markets for the athletes, or to move toward a more controlled system that caps expenditures, re-emphasizes education and provides adequate short- and long-term medical coverage to the athletes. The latter path would include committing sufficient funds to enhance athlete education, for comprehensive injury and medical care, and to pay for loss of income insurance to promising athletes whose careers were aborted by injury in college. This path would attempt to resurrect the central purpose of college sports as an extracurricular activity in the university, where students are devoted to learning and live a relatively sedentary and cerebral life.

To be legally acceptable, the NCAA would need a limited antitrust exemption to control coaches’ and administrators’ compensation. The NCAA functions principally as a trade association for coaches, athletic directors and conference commissioners and is unlikely to generate fundamental reform on its own volition. More recent experience indicates that leaving the structure of college sports up to judges is time consuming, very expensive, confusing, and capricious. Nothing is easy in Washington, D.C. these days, but Congress is the most promising venue for defining a coherent and financially viable system for intercollegiate athletics in the 21st Century.”