Next DC

[tech_wreck47]

FWIW, the App State has a guy saying that a reliable source of his states this has been a done deal for about a month. Again, TIFWIW...

I haven’t had time to watch what this guy does, but if what everyone is saying about his aggressive style is true, then I’m super excited. I like Roof, and I don’t think he’s a bad D coordinator...I just think it’s hard to be good in that style of defense unless you have an incredible amount of talent...which has always been an issue for us. In the past we’ve looked better with defenses that are always attacking. It lends itself to surrendering big plays, for sure, but hell I’ll take that over letting teams just march down the field on us in 10 yard chunks.

Link?

 

[Jmonty71]

After seeing App St. I have to say. I liked the D. I saw a lot of what I wished we did. Good luck in our search.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Just wait till the D shows out next year and we get the comments like this.

The D had all of Roofs players that he taught, and if he would have been given one more year the D would have done the same.....

If its top 30-40 I'd agree with that premise. If better than 30 I'll agree we upgraded. If worse than 40 I'll contend it was probably a net downgrade. If worse than top 60 I'll state it's a definite downgrade. Fair enough?

 

[vamosjackets]

And this time next year it'll be "wait until he gets his guys in the system"

1. Are you already convinced of the outcome or are you open to other alternatives? If you are already convinced, is it of such an ingrained nature that even if evidence points to the contrary, you will interpret the evidence so as to fit your presupposed conclusion?

2. Given that CPJ IS our coach (contrary to your personal preference), do you believe he shouldn't try to make changes and efforts to improve what has been the weakest part of our team since he's been here? You criticize him for changing DC's as often as he has. Would you also criticize him if he had kept the same DC for all these years with poor results? Wouldn't you say, "He's so stubborn to stick with the same guy. Why wouldn't he strive for better? Why are his expectations so low on that side of the ball?"

3. Do you believe it would be unreasonable to give a new DC a couple of years before final evaluation? CJT's first year here, we were in the 50's or 60's or something. Every year afterward we were between 15 and 30.

4. Do you believe 2014 was a fluke? Do you believe 9 wins last year was luck?

5. My memory of you may be wrong, but my impression is that you haven't been a CPJ fan since he's been here and certainly weren't as active on the board in the good seasons as you are in the bad. Am I wrong in that? If so, I welcome correction. It seems that you and a couple other posters (@jacketup ) are anti-CPJ because you don't like that style of offense and you are much more about recruiting being the path to success at GT. Is this a fair assessment?

 

[tech_wreck47]

If its top 30-40 I'd agree with that premise. If better than 30 I'll agree we upgraded. If worse than 40 I'll contend it was probably a net downgrade. If worse than top 60 I'll state it's a definite downgrade. Fair enough?

If we brake the 60’s I’ll say it’s an upgrade lol. We haven’t done that under Roof over 5 years.

 

[albanyjacket]

His special teams wer awesome last night as well.

 

[vamosjackets]

If its top 30-40 I'd agree with that premise. If better than 30 I'll agree we upgraded. If worse than 40 I'll contend it was probably a net downgrade. If worse than top 60 I'll state it's a definite downgrade. Fair enough?

I would ask that a new guy with a new system be given a couple of years before major judgment. I would say that about any new coach or coordinator. I didn't like the Roof hire upon first impression, but was definitely willing to give it a couple of years to determine if improvement was possible.

 

[forensicbuzz]

If that's what you believe, you're welcome to keep believing it.

You know you just contradicted yourself, right?

Not sure what you're insinuating, but, no, I didn't contradict myself. And...why wouldn't I be welcome to keep believing the truth? The reason Womack, Groh and Roof were given the DC job was because they were seasoned, experienced DC's. Roof and Groh had previous HC experience, and were used to being responsible for their program. CPJ has been looking for a guy who can come in and be given the reins for the Defense and run it successfully. He's given each DC sufficient time to get it done, and none of the three have. When he has to repeatedly step in and force the DC to change game strategy, that means they're not getting it done.

 

[Techster]

Not sure what you're insinuating, but, no, I didn't contradict myself. And...why wouldn't I be welcome to keep believing the truth? The reason Womack, Groh and Roof were given the DC job was because they were seasoned, experienced DC's. Roof and Groh had previous HC experience, and were used to being responsible for their program. CPJ has been looking for a guy who can come in and be given the reins for the Defense and run it successfully. He's given each DC sufficient time to get it done, and none of the three have. When he has to repeatedly step in and force the DC to change game strategy, that means they're not getting it done.

If you think that's the truth, like I said, you more than welcome to keep believing it.

Have a merry Christmas.

 

[g0lftime]

If Woody is the guy then I hope he has time to.relish the season's success and a little time with his players even if just a few days. Those guys have a common bond and those kids really put it out there for him. App has a good program and have for some time now. Just ask Michigan.

 

[slugboy]

If we brake the 60’s I’ll say it’s an upgrade lol. We haven’t done that under Roof over 5 years.

This year—66–was one of his best. 94 last year. 62 in 2015. 70 in 2014. 77 in 2013.
Then 74, 85, 84, 100, 71, and 70 all the way back in 2007.
Roof has been better than Groh, but about equal to Wommack. We haven’t seen a top 50 defense since Tenuta.
If we hit 59 or better, and I’m not expecting to in year 1, we’ve improved.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[tech_wreck47]

This year—66–was one of his best. 94 last year. 62 in 2015. 70 in 2014. 77 in 2013.
Then 74, 85, 84, 100, 71, and 70 all the way back in 2007.
Roof has been better than Groh, but about equal to Wommack. We haven’t seen a top 50 defense since Tenuta.
If we hit 59 or better, and I’m not expecting to in year 1, we’ve improved.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That’s my point, another poster was saying that it’s not really improvement if we break 60, and I totally disagree with that. However, depending on who we hire I believe we will break 60, especially if it’s Woody.

 

[a5ehren]

Wofford's long time coach Mike Ayers is retiring. You have to think that Woody, who played for and coached under Ayers, is a candidate for that job.

P5 DC pays better than FCS HC. And offers a better career path to being an FBS HC if you want that.

Assuming he is who we want, anyway.

 

[Techster]

In the WAAAY back machine, here's Nate Woody's Wofford defense VS Clemson in 2011. Gave up 35 points and over 400 yards. Not impressive if you just glance at it, but when you consider Wofford is FCS, and Clemson had future NFL players QB Tajh Boyd, WR Sammy Watkins, WR Deandre Hopkins, WR Martavious Bryant, TE Dwayne Allen, and RBAndre Ellington...that's pretty good.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

In the WAAAY back machine, here's Nate Woody's Wofford defense VS Clemson in 2011. Gave up 35 points and over 400 yards. Not impressive if you just glance at it, but when you consider Wofford is FCS, and Clemson had future NFL players QB Tajh Boyd, WR Sammy Watkins, WR Deandre Hopkins, WR Martavious Bryant, TE Dwayne Allen, and RBAndre Ellington...that's pretty good.

 

[lv20gt]

...

1. I see no reason to believe dc #4 Will be any better than the first 3. And the evidence changes every year. Last year we heard time and time again about getting off the field on 3rd down. We improve greatly this year on exactly that and people change what is important. A few years ago it was about getting off the field and putting the game in the offense hands. Now it's about the defense needing to win the game for us. What makes you think the field goals won't be changed again?

2. The defense was no weaker than our offense this year and the special teams was way worse. But we change dcs which will make the defense that much less likely to continue to improve. However, when is Johnson going to address the terrible passing game we've had every year? OL issues galore. Special teams suck and have been mediocre for a while, except for a great kicker that covered some of the issues.

3. My problem isn't with the new dc. He'll probably do okay. My problem is that as long as Johnson is coach our defense will struggle because the offense we choose to run handicaps them along with a head coach that would rather be. Our defense this year was good enough that we should have won 10 games or at the very least 9. But the dc gets booted and the offense will stay the same. I fully expect the new dc to get the same treatment and for the defense to eat almost all the blame. For two years that blame will go back on roof and then it'll start to pile up on the new dc.

4. To some degree yes. Between the turnovers, the injury to laskey forcing a much better player to play, smelters situation, and an ol that we haven't come close to having before or after I don't see 2014 happening again. As far as last year goes it was a 9 win season where we didnt win our division, got beat handily by 3 teams, went 4-4 in conference and played a midlevel sec team in a bowl game. Good year but hardly a banner year. Meanwhile 2015 was completely unacceptable and this year was the second worst in two decades. Next year we'll have a new dc, probably new system to with him, a rb playing qb and the same bad passing game as always.

5. I loved the Johnson hire at the time and remember being happy because my dad was saying for years that he should have been picked instead of Chan. I still think he was the right fit at the time and could be now if a fire was lit under him and he was forced to adapt. I started losing faith in him when he told Vad that the duke game we didnt win the right way. That's when it became clear to me that he was more interested in running his offense than anything. Then things like his handling of of Marshall and complete refusal to try and fix the passing game cemented things. That being said it's more the fans who are cpj>gt that are the most annoying. The ones who will blame everything except the head coach. Offense could score 0 points and some will wonder why the defense didn't score more points. And as long as that's the case then Johnson has no incentive to to address the issues that have been here for as long as he has.

 

[vamosjackets]

1. I see no reason to believe dc #4 Will be any better than the first 3. And the evidence changes every year. Last year we heard time and time again about getting off the field on 3rd down. We improve greatly this year on exactly that and people change what is important. A few years ago it was about getting off the field and putting the game in the offense hands. Now it's about the defense needing to win the game for us. What makes you think the field goals won't be changed again?

2. The defense was no weaker than our offense this year and the special teams was way worse. But we change dcs which will make the defense that much less likely to continue to improve. However, when is Johnson going to address the terrible passing game we've had every year? OL issues galore. Special teams suck and have been mediocre for a while, except for a great kicker that covered some of the issues.

3. My problem isn't with the new dc. He'll probably do okay. My problem is that as long as Johnson is coach our defense will struggle because the offense we choose to run handicaps them along with a head coach that would rather be. Our defense this year was good enough that we should have won 10 games or at the very least 9. But the dc gets booted and the offense will stay the same. I fully expect the new dc to get the same treatment and for the defense to eat almost all the blame. For two years that blame will go back on roof and then it'll start to pile up on the new dc.

4. To some degree yes. Between the turnovers, the injury to laskey forcing a much better player to play, smelters situation, and an ol that we haven't come close to having before or after I don't see 2014 happening again. As far as last year goes it was a 9 win season where we didnt win our division, got beat handily by 3 teams, went 4-4 in conference and played a midlevel sec team in a bowl game. Good year but hardly a banner year. Meanwhile 2015 was completely unacceptable and this year was the second worst in two decades. Next year we'll have a new dc, probably new system to with him, a rb playing qb and the same bad passing game as always.

5. I loved the Johnson hire at the time and remember being happy because my dad was saying for years that he should have been picked instead of Chan. I still think he was the right fit at the time and could be now if a fire was lit under him and he was forced to adapt. I started losing faith in him when he told Vad that the duke game we didnt win the right way. That's when it became clear to me that he was more interested in running his offense than anything. Then things like his handling of of Marshall and complete refusal to try and fix the passing game cemented things. That being said it's more the fans who are cpj>gt that are the most annoying. The ones who will blame everything except the head coach. Offense could score 0 points and some will wonder why the defense didn't score more points. And as long as that's the case then Johnson has no incentive to to address the issues that have been here for as long as he has.

I can deal with this response. I appreciate the reasoning and effort.

A new set of points built on the last ones:
1. I also have doubts about CPJ ever having a good defense here, and believe it could be due to exactly what you say (more practice time and scrimmages against our offense and against scout players who fit our specialized offense). BUT, I also have doubts about my doubts! ie I'm willing to acknowledge there's a chance our defense could actually be good with better coaching (and maybe (hopefully) a few key improvements in personnel). I recognize that our last 3 DC's certainly aren't among the top of the profession or had unquestioned success at other stops with equal talent. If that were the case, the case for my doubts would be much stronger. But, that being the case definitely leaves a hung jury. We cannot say with any level of confidence that if we had a DC who was proven, then we could eliminate that variable. But, that is still the biggest variable in our equation! If we had a good DC, could we have a good defense at GT under CPJ???? This is still the big question. I don't think ANYBODY (on earth) knows the answer to that, even CPJ himself. I think he thinks he can have a good defense, which is why he's done what he's done. I have a lot of hope for this Nate Woody possibility. If he works out, we have a better program instantly without having to change anything else (like new majors and crazy stuff like that). But, I had a lot of hope for Al Groh too, so my hope could very well be misplaced. We'll have to wait and see, won't we. The proof will be there one way or another in a couple of years ... which brings up the next point...

2. What is proof?? You bring up an excellent point in #1. Extremely important point! For any productive discussion there must be agreement on definitions, measures, and such (as much as possible). I think we can achieve that in this discussion and then move on together as GT fans hoping for success. Here is the bottom line on this for me: POINTS PER DRIVE (ppd) and/or YARDS PER PLAY (ypp). These are the best way to determine success. It takes out other variables as much as possible such as defensive scores, special teams, field position, etc. And, it's all about competition, so it's a ranking rather than a raw stat. Doesn't matter if we have 700 yards of offense if everybody else has 800. If we're in the top 30 in offense, that's a good offense, and the same goes for defense. Now, a lot of people are talking about FEI. I don't know exactly how that's calculated, but I think it's an efficiency stat (so, ppd and ypp) that is adjusted for strength of opponent opposite side of the ball. I don't care about the other stats. I don't care if we have 0 yards passing or 400 yards passing as long as we're more efficient that the competition (because that means we're winning on that side of the ball). I don't care about 3rd down conversions or turnovers as long as we compare favorably in defensive efficiency with our competition. I think the reason people pointed to 3rd down efficiency last year is that's where it seemed we were had the most glaring weakness which, if improved, would ultimately improve what matters - defensive efficiency. Turns out it didn't, because we improved 3rd down dramatically, but we still were in the 60's in efficiency. The best explanation for this would be if we gave up more on 1st and 2nd down (so no need for 3rd down conversions), but I'm not sure. And, people think our offense was decent because we were in the 30's in offensive efficiency. So, nothing else matters. According to the best data we have (and thus most objective evidence) our offense was significantly better than our defense, again. And, looking at the long run of CPJ's career here, this is the consistent result - we have an upper quartile offense and a bottom quartile defense. Again, make it simple. The simplest, and best way to determine success is with one of those FEI type stats. So, bottom line, my proposal is that we (me, you, and everyone else) judge the offense and the defense by these efficiency stats like FEI. Wherever we rank in those determines how good we are on that side of the ball (and the appropriate level of satisfaction we should have as fans). Again, the evidence will be there one way or another in a couple of years, and we'll all be able to look at it and decide.

3. Actually, there's something overarching even this second point. Wins/Losses. In 2014, we didn't have a great defense, but we had a phenomenal offense and thus had a great season. So, even if the DC doesn't work out, if we end up having good to great seasons on the record books, we will be happy and satisfied with CPJ even with a crappy defense. I think the W-L record should always be taken with a grain of salt - that grain being the objective stats of point #2.

4. I think the passing game is fine, philosophically. When we have a good QB and a good WR, our passing stats are really good (I'm talking about efficiency, which is all that matters). So, if that's the case, then the problem there is not the plan or coaching, but the personnel, plain and simple. I don't have much hope that Marshall can be the answer to this at QB, but we still may be able to be good enough offensively to win a lot of ball games with him. He can be special in other areas. I look forward to better days in the passing department when we get a better passer of the ball under center.

 

[SteamWhistle]

In the WAAAY back machine, here's Nate Woody's Wofford defense VS Clemson in 2011. Gave up 35 points and over 400 yards. Not impressive if you just glance at it, but when you consider Wofford is FCS, and Clemson had future NFL players QB Tajh Boyd, WR Sammy Watkins, WR Deandre Hopkins, WR Martavious Bryant, TE Dwayne Allen, and RBAndre Ellington...that's pretty good.

In the same year Tech dominated Clemson.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I would ask that a new guy with a new system be given a couple of years before major judgment. I would say that about any new coach or coordinator. I didn't like the Roof hire upon first impression, but was definitely willing to give it a couple of years to determine if improvement was possible.

This. I think this is what some of the posters were referring to earlier. There's always a lot of optimism with a new hire, but if next year doesn't go the way some fans expect, then the pitchforks will be back out again. I think any DC changing scheme needs at least three years unless the wheels just plain fall off.

I like the idea of hiring Woody as DC. It's a logical choice. My only hesitation is on the scheme change, and what that means with current talent on the roster. That's why I'd ask for at least three years.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

This year—66–was one of his best. 94 last year. 62 in 2015. 70 in 2014. 77 in 2013.
Then 74, 85, 84, 100, 71, and 70 all the way back in 2007.
Roof has been better than Groh, but about equal to Wommack. We haven’t seen a top 50 defense since Tenuta.
If we hit 59 or better, and I’m not expecting to in year 1, we’ve improved.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wow! Didn’t realize we were that awful. Given our location, 40 should be the worst ever. And that should be a bad season.