New regime goal posts

deeeznutz

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I'm kind of in the same boat, but at this point 2020 is completely out the window for me. Clemson, Georgia, UCF, Notre Dame, Syracuse, Miami, Virginia Tech. That's just stupid.
UCF, Syracuse, Miami, VT, and (to a lesser extent, ND) are not even close to be guaranteed good teams in 2 years. UCF will come back to earth with Milton gone (still good, but not as good), Syracuse was 4-8 the previous 2 years under Babers before this season (and now they're losing Dungey), and we beat Miami and VT this year (along with beating VT last year and nearly Miami as well). Clemson and Georgia are likely to still be very good, and ND very well might as well, but those other teams are about the same as we play regularly.
 

lv20gt

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We won seven games this year and only graduate 14. This is a mole hill not a mountain. Our defense is bad now, it will improve. A good OC can transition. If you don't think we can, then you don't actually trust CGC to do his job. I believe CGC can get the job done and I do not expect him to win less than 7 games next year. I am not even a fan boy but apparently I have more faith in him and the team than others.

We won 7 games with a senior QB and a system that everyone was recruited to and coached for. We don't have a QB with meaningful experience (no I don't think Oliver is going to be a QB in our next system), and we have a bunch of players recruited for and coached to a different system. That is especially true for the OL who were terrible in pass pro and in general aren't set up to do well in a different system due to past coaching. Sorry just saying a good OC can transition is a vacuous statement.

The CGC hire was a long term one. It was why he got a 7 year contract, which falls in line with the hype being around a potential increased recruiting which doesn't do anything for next year. We can win 6-7 next year but I don't expect it. Not because I don't think CGC can do his job but because the situation left by the previous staff is not conducive to it.
 

deeeznutz

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We have a terrible defense, poor special teams, and are going to be transitioning away from an offense that has several pieces that don't really transition to other offenses, and are missing some pieces other offenses use entirely. There is no 2007 class and NFL DL to help smooth the transition.
So I've got a question for you...if we do have a decent-to-good year and win 6-8 games, will you see it as an amazing coaching job by Collins, or perhaps that the cupboard wasn't as bare as so many of you keep demanding that it must be? I think we have some really good athletes on both sides of the ball, and most of them should be able to transition to whatever system we're going to. Our young QBs have some good arm talent in addition to superior athleticism, our BBs are all good, powerful runners, our ABs are a bunch of athletic scat back/slot receiver types (who are all drilled in the importance of perimeter blocking, and should be good at it), and our WRs are big-bodied outside receivers (again, drilled in the importance of blocking). On OL, which is probably the biggest issue, we shouldn't have a problem fielding guards and centers (most of our linemen likely project there), but we also have a few guys who do fit more of the OT mold. Given a little more practice time spent on pass blocking techniques, along with not being in a leaning forward 3 point stance, I don't expect us to have a huge problem improving in that area. A skilled OC should absolutely be able to create an effective offense with the parts we currently have. On defense, we've got some talented athletes who just need to be put in the right place and utilized properly and we should be able to improve. Will we be top 25? Maybe not, but we should be at least competitive for a bowl game.
 

deeeznutz

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We won 7 games with a senior QB and a system that everyone was recruited to and coached for. We don't have a QB with meaningful experience (no I don't think Oliver is going to be a QB in our next system), and we have a bunch of players recruited for and coached to a different system. That is especially true for the OL who were terrible in pass pro and in general aren't set up to do well in a different system due to past coaching. Sorry just saying a good OC can transition is a vacuous statement.

The CGC hire was a long term one. It was why he got a 7 year contract, which falls in line with the hype being around a potential increased recruiting which doesn't do anything for next year. We can win 6-7 next year but I don't expect it. Not because I don't think CGC can do his job but because the situation left by the previous staff is not conducive to it.
I think when our OL aren't in a 3 point stance, weight ~75% forward, they will be a whole lot more effective at pass blocking. I don't think this is going to be as big an issue as y'all are making it out to be. A guy like Parker Braun will be effective in any scheme.
 

sc jacket 22

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108
It’s so weird. People that are super hyped about CGC expect us to not do well for two years. I just don’t see it. We have a 7 win team with a lot of returning players. Our defense will be better. An OC worth his chops should be able to be top 30 in ofei with what he has returning considering we are top 30 now (no idea where we are after the bowl but we were top 20).

CGC seems to have his head on straight. I expect his next class to be better, and hope we improve.

As for goal posts, I will accept what I accept now. 6-8 wins is *okay*. We should be consistently in the hunt for the coastal as we are currently. I don’t care what our recruiting rankings are, and basing our coach’s success on it is dumb. If he goes undefeated with a rank 40 class than so be it. If it takes top 20 classes for his success then that is on him to achieve, but wins is what I will grade him on.

It’s hard for me to put absolute numbers because context matters. 2015 was shaping up to be a great year before our entire oline got injured. If we suffer some catastrophe next year, I won’t hold it against him. If we are competitive in all our games but wind up 5-7, I’ll probably forgive that too. If we get blown out 9 times that will not be acceptable even in the first year.
We have a team that won 7 games in an offense they were familiar with and playing for coaches they knew well and were familiar with. Take the same team and throw them in a new offense with new coaches, and I don't think it's fair to expect the same results from them. Luckily, I don't think the defense will take much of a step back due to having already been in transition this year, but obviously the offense is another story.
 

OldJacketFan

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We won 7 games with a senior QB and a system that everyone was recruited to and coached for. We don't have a QB with meaningful experience (no I don't think Oliver is going to be a QB in our next system), and we have a bunch of players recruited for and coached to a different system. That is especially true for the OL who were terrible in pass pro and in general aren't set up to do well in a different system due to past coaching. Sorry just saying a good OC can transition is a vacuous statement.

The CGC hire was a long term one. It was why he got a 7 year contract, which falls in line with the hype being around a potential increased recruiting which doesn't do anything for next year. We can win 6-7 next year but I don't expect it. Not because I don't think CGC can do his job but because the situation left by the previous staff is not conducive to it.

So what is it? If Tech wins 8 or more games is it an amazing coaching job by CGC and staff with no talent left or perhaps your talent evaluation skills are sorely lacking and prejudiced?
 

iceeater1969

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It’s so weird. People that are super hyped about CGC expect us to not do well for two years. I just don’t see it. We have a 7 win team with a lot of returning players. Our defense will be better. An OC worth his chops should be able to be top 30 in ofei with what he has returning considering we are top 30 now (no idea where we are after the bowl but we were top 20).

CGC seems to have his head on straight. I expect his next class to be better, and hope we improve.

As for goal posts, I will accept what I accept now. 6-8 wins is *okay*. We should be consistently in the hunt for the coastal as we are currently. I don’t care what our recruiting rankings are, and basing our coach’s success on it is dumb. If he goes undefeated with a rank 40 class than so be it. If it takes top 20 classes for his success then that is on him to achieve, but wins is what I will grade him on.

It’s hard for me to put absolute numbers because context matters. 2015 was shaping up to be a great year before our entire oline got injured. If we suffer some catastrophe next year, I won’t hold it against him. If we are competitive in all our games but wind up 5-7, I’ll probably forgive that too. If we get blown out 9 times that will not be acceptable even in the first year.
A lot of posters who decried many for accepting mediocrity are AWOL in this thread thus far. Why is that?
Because in last 2 games we have been beat like a red headed step child , it's hard to see a great transition? 7 wins would mean great coaching of good players as we change offense , defense, etc.
As AE says we will know in a year ( i add 2019 close of signing).

Its going to take a while for this young guy to "earn my trust" of me. But he s started strong
 

AlabamaBuzz

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I need to give this more thought, but I do have some items of note to think about:

  • Coastal division of ACC is a dumpster fire - with some excellent coaching and QB play, we might could win more than we lose in the ACC
  • I would think we can win 2 of 3 from Temple, USF, and the Citadel, although the Citadel runs a 3O and gave Bammer fits for one half
  • Not sure we have ever had to face UGAG when they put together 3 straight classes in a row in the top 3 of recruiting, so that might be unfair to expect from any coach

So, at first glance, I think my "1st year" expectations range from about 5 wins (worst case) to about 7 wins (best case), with a stretch to 8 wins.

Duke will continue to not to be a "walk over" for us until we can out-recruit them. NC State will have a new QB, but I expect them to be formidable as well.
 

ibeattetris

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We have a team that won 7 games in an offense they were familiar with and playing for coaches they knew well and were familiar with. Take the same team and throw them in a new offense with new coaches, and I don't think it's fair to expect the same results from them. Luckily, I don't think the defense will take much of a step back due to having already been in transition this year, but obviously the offense is another story.
We are all just guessing here, so of course you may be right. Almost every one of these kids did not play in this offense until stepping on to campus. I assume the majority of the players will be familiar with whatever offensive coaching scheme we bring. Our defense will get better. We only recruited to the 3-4 for one year and we most likely are going back to 4-3. The defense has the best players on our team and should be performing better than it has. If our defense improves as much as our offense regresses, then I don't think we are going to be in bad shape. CGC said he will run a scheme that fits the players we have. To me, that means the transition should not be that bad.
 

lv20gt

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So I've got a question for you...if we do have a decent-to-good year and win 6-8 games, will you see it as an amazing coaching job by Collins, or perhaps that the cupboard wasn't as bare as so many of you keep demanding that it must be?

We're talking about expectations. Saying we shouldn't expect 7-8 wins isn't the same as saying it is impossible. A ton of how well we do next year will be with how our opponents develop as well and I doubt anyone here has significantly looked into that. But the fact is we don't have a QB that has proven anything. We don't have an OL that has proven to be able to do what the next system will ask it to. We have no proven go to WR. On offense the only proven thing we have is the RB situation where we should be fine. Now someone will probably step up and be fine, but expecting us not to have serious issues on offense next year as we transition away from the TO is silly it would require almost all the ????s to go in our favor which just isn't likely. On defense we lose 6 starters and weren't strong to begin with.

We won 7 games this year. Expecting 7 wins next year is to expect no drop off despite a complete overhaul on both sides of the ball.

I think we have some really good athletes on both sides of the ball, and most of them should be able to transition to whatever system we're going to

Based on what exactly? Some will transition well. Some won't.

Our young QBs have some good arm talent in addition to superior athleticism,

Who do we have that has proven to have good arm talent? Johnson hasn't had a pass in college yet. Graham has had one. Oliver has looked terrible throwing. Yates hasn't stepped foot on campus. We may have someone capable of being the QB we need. But nobody has come close to proving it.

, our ABs are a bunch of athletic scat back/slot receiver types (who are all drilled in the importance of perimeter blocking, and should be good at it)

And none of them have proven to be consistent receiving threats. Maybe they will step up, but none have proven it.

our WRs are big-bodied outside receivers (again, drilled in the importance of blocking)

And again, none are proven to be consistent receiving threats. Our leading returning had 8 catches this year.

. Given a little more practice time spent on pass blocking techniques, along with not being in a leaning forward 3 point stance, I don't expect us to have a huge problem improving in that area.

We'll be improved mostly because we couldn't get any worse in pass protection. We'll still likely be weak in that area. Sorry but just switching to a 2 point stance and practicing it a little isn't going to cure those problems. It takes time an experience, and the kind that isn't just gained in one offseason.

skilled OC should absolutely be able to create an effective offense with the parts we currently have.

Based on what? You pointed to a bunch of things that could be true, and very little to proven ability for where we are going.

On defense, we've got some talented athletes who just need to be put in the right place and utilized properly and we should be able to improve.

We'll probably get better on defense, but we lose 6 starters and I highly doubt our defense will be able to cover for the issues we will probably have on offense.
 

gtg391z

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You have to give the coach time to recruit some talent. We are on the bottom or near bottom of the ACC talent wise and got lucky to get 7 wins this year. Defense is gawd awful and has been for 10 years. We just got boat raced by Minn. and we are completely changing the offensive scheme. 4 yrs min even if we have a couple of losing seasons.
 

okiemon

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A 7 loss season next year won’t be inexcusable. It will be a red flag no doubt.

Yes, maybe, or maybe not. Ross won 2 games the first year at Tech and 3 the second. Many here have said the transition to a new offensive scheme using players who were recruited to another scheme will take time, and I can believe that.


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CTJacket

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Yes, maybe, or maybe not. Ross won 2 games the first year at Tech and 3 the second. Many here have said the transition to a new offensive scheme using players who were recruited to another scheme will take time, and I can believe that.


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Ross inherited a program that had only a handful of good players and a bunch who didn't like him. Totally different story. Not blaming Curry totally because Homer was in the process of trying to get our facilities above D3 level. The weight 'room' used to be under the stands OUTSIDE.

CGC has already been working the existing guys to let them know he wants them. A bunch have posted on Twitter. I have faith in him and believe our median expectation is 7 wins. If CPJ was still here I was expecting 9+ but I give up 2 games to transition. TStan didn't hire CGC to go 2-10 next year, transition or not.
 

okiemon

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Ross inherited a program that had only a handful of good players and a bunch who didn't like him. Totally different story. Not blaming Curry totally because Homer was in the process of trying to get our facilities above D3 level. The weight 'room' used to be under the stands OUTSIDE.

Yeah, I remember the outdoor weight room. You could probably argue that we were as far behind the competition facility-wise then as we are now...maybe even farther.




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