NCAA Tournament

[Randy Carson]

I've never understood the anti-Duke (or anti-Carolina) sentiment, and I live a few miles from both schools. Coach K is a stand up guy, he's run a very clean program over the years, built a dynasty, and don't forget brought home some Olympic gold.

Is this like hating the Yankees because they win too frequently? You'd rather see Kentucky or Gonzaga or some Big East school cutting down the nets every year instead? Or maybe you think Louisville is a better representative of the conference? Rubbish.

I want to see good games every night. I want the ACC to be the preferred choice of the best HS talent in the nation. I want to watch Virginia win it all. I want to see NC State get its third title. (And yes, I want the tournament held in Greensboro...every year. Period.)

A rising tide raises all the boats. If Duke and Carolina pull in the five stars every year, GREAT! The four stars will want to play against them, to play on TV, and to go dancing every March. They will want to play for us...and the rest of the league.

Let's send nine teams to the Tourney every year. Let's have a legitimate beef that the 10th got left out. Let's own this thing (again).

So here I stand: Tech first. The remainder of the ACC second. The rest of the country can go fly a kite. And THWG.

 

[MidtownJacket]

I've never understood the anti-Duke (or anti-Carolina) sentiment, and I live a few miles from both schools. Coach K is a stand up guy, he's run a very clean program over the years, built a dynasty, and don't forget brought home some Olympic gold.

Is this like hating the Yankees because they win too frequently? You'd rather see Kentucky or Gonzaga or some Big East school cutting down the nets every year instead? Or maybe you think Louisville is a better representative of the conference? Rubbish.

I want to see good games every night. I want the ACC to be the preferred choice of the best HS talent in the nation. I want to watch Virginia win it all. I want to see NC State get its third title. (And yes, I want the tournament held in Greensboro...every year. Period.)

A rising tide raises all the boats. If Duke and Carolina pull in the five stars every year, GREAT! The four stars will want to play against them, to play on TV, and to go dancing every March. They will want to play for us...and the rest of the league.

Let's send nine teams to the Tourney every year. Let's have a legitimate beef that the 10th got left out. Let's own this thing (again).

So here I stand: Tech first. The remainder of the ACC second. The rest of the country can go fly a kite. And THWG.

I’ll be durned if I didn’t hear the fight song playing and see the rambling reck blow through a banner that says: “Always Choose Conference” across it.

Well done my friend, well done. I salute you!

 

[MtnWasp]

No one here dislikes K more than I do, but I will be dadgum if I want to see an ACC team go down to an SEC team in the NCAAT.

There is a time and place to pull against a hated conference rival, but the NCAAT is not one of them.

 

[orientalnc]

I’ll be durned if I didn’t hear the fight song playing and see the rambling reck blow through a banner that says: “Always Choose Conference” across it.

Well done my friend, well done. I salute you!

Duke as a school and meember of the Durham community is all good. I have a neighboor at Duke Hospital awaiting a donor for a transplant. Their campus is almost idealic in its beauty. And, Partly because of Duke, Durham is becoming a destination for young college grads seaking afffordable urban liiving.

I think I have a bit of resent that is solely focused on their long time success. It is easy to wish we had something close to that. The Duke fund (based on tobacco money) is incredibly rich and they can do whatever they want. Pay K $9million? No problem. Give a house rent free to a recruit? Easy. That said, if they are cheating, it is so well done that their basketball success pales in comparison.

I always pull for the ACC, but would not be disappointed for Duke to lose next weekend. To Carolina, of course.

 

[RamblinRed]

I wanted Duke to beat Arkansas, but I want whoever wins the St. Peter's-UNC game I will be rooting for next weekend.

Duke is hardly a 'clean' program. That is a very naive view.

Also, at this point there is no more money for the conference to be made. They are based on games played up to but not including the final four. So once a team reaches the Elite Eight that is the last time that it improves the money situation for the conference.

 

[orientalnc]

I wanted Duke to beat Arkansas, but I want whoever wins the St. Peter's-UNC game I will be rooting for next weekend.

Duke is hardly a 'clean' program. That is a very naive view.

Also, at this point there is no more money for the conference to be made. They are based on games played up to but not including the final four. So once a team reaches the Elite Eight that is the last time that it improves the money situation for the conference.

I would be happy with three ACC teams in the Final Four.

 

[MtnWasp]

Duke is hardly a 'clean' program. That is a very naive view.

Com' on Red! Zion Williamson and all the other top 5, one-and-done players they have landed over Kentucky, the SEC and Arizona was for the education and to be around upper-middle class white folk. The lovely family home for the Mom had nothing to do with it!

 

[lv20gt]

Com' on Red! Zion Williamson and all the other top 5, one-and-done players they have landed over Kentucky, the SEC and Arizona was for the education and to be around upper-middle class white folk. The lovely family home for the Mom had nothing to do with it!

This doesn't make any sense. Sure, wherever most of the top one and done players went were going to be paying them but the rest of the argument makes no sense.

K is the winningest coach in college history, by a lot. Why wouldn't top level players want to play for him?

Also you think Kentucky or Arizona is more appealing why exactly?

 

[MtnWasp]

Umm, the post was supposed to be tongue in cheek for humor purposes.

But there are two distinct competitive models being employed by NCAA members right now. There is the semi-pro model embodied clearly by the SEC (and similar big-budget programs) and then there is the traditional student-athlete model to which GT is rigidly adhered. Thus all the chatter about a schism and pending fracture of the NCAA between the two.

As we are seeing, the semi-pro model is progressively more appealing to the top high school/AAU talent as time goes by. There is a market and monetary value for these players and the players and their families seem more and more willing to cash-in on this value. This is seen with the under the table talent brokering or now with the over the table NIL. The competitive value of an education, even a superior one, at this time is not significant compared to the up-front cash value if the player has value on this market.

But you think it makes sense that Duke is the exception, that there tradition and reputation are so great, that it overrides the cash market. Well, then ... okay.

 

[GTbball2016]

Also you think Kentucky or Arizona is more appealing why exactly?

Because they are dropping bags

 

[lv20gt]

But you think it makes sense that Duke is the exception, that there tradition and reputation are so great, that it overrides the cash market. Well, then ... okay.

I literally said the exact opposite.

It's just stupid to act like anyone has a better selling pitch, broadly speaking, than Duke when it comes to the top end players. If nobody was paying players, Duke would still likely be pulling in the top end recruits.

 

[MtnWasp]

This doesn't make any sense.

Also you think Kentucky or Arizona is more appealing why exactly?

Umm, the post was supposed to be tongue in cheek for humor purposes.

But there are two distinct competitive models being employed by NCAA members right now. There is the semi-pro model embodied clearly by the SEC (and similar big-budget programs) and then there is the traditional student-athlete model to which GT is rigidly adhered. Thus all the chatter about a schism and pending fracture of the NCAA between the two factions. The basis of one is play in return for education, room and board. The other is pay for play. One is traditional where the medium exchange is education providing future societal value to the athlete, the other is market sharing pure capitalism where the medium of exchange is money.

As we are seeing, the semi-pro model is progressively more appealing to the top high school/AAU talent as time goes by (probably because of a declining putative cash value of an education. Part of that is a decades long stagnation of real wages, part is likely due to societal and economic instability creating pressure to cash in on value NOW).

There is a market and monetary value for these players and the players and their families seem more and more willing to cash-in on this value. This is seen with the under the table talent brokering networks revealed by the Federal Investigation or now with the over the table NIL. The competitive value of an education, even a superior one, at this time is not significant compared to the up-front cash value if the player has such a value on this market.

The TV money created a cash value for the athletes. That cash value created a disequilibrium (or, untapped market). The disequilibrium created a potential (anologous to an electrical potential). The potential created pressure to tap the market by the players who want their cut and the programs who use their money for competitive advantage to enlarge their share of the market. Like standing water trying to find cracks in the basement's foundation, the pressure results in various mechanisms to relieve the pressure (under the table brokering, NIL, etc). The mechanisms to relieve the disequilibrium are organic and inevitable.

But you think it makes sense that Duke is the exception, that their tradition and reputation are so great, that it overrides the cash market. Well, then ... okay.

 

[LargeFO]

Man coach K got some folks on here totally fooled.

 

[slugboy]

Sorry


(Duke legitimately has real talent, tho)

 

[lv20gt]

Doesn't look good for Miami. Kansas flexing the talent differential in the second half. .

 

[Root4GT]

Umm, the post was supposed to be tongue in cheek for humor purposes.

But there are two distinct competitive models being employed by NCAA members right now. There is the semi-pro model embodied clearly by the SEC (and similar big-budget programs) and then there is the traditional student-athlete model to which GT is rigidly adhered. Thus all the chatter about a schism and pending fracture of the NCAA between the two.

As we are seeing, the semi-pro model is progressively more appealing to the top high school/AAU talent as time goes by. There is a market and monetary value for these players and the players and their families seem more and more willing to cash-in on this value. This is seen with the under the table talent brokering or now with the over the table NIL. The competitive value of an education, even a superior one, at this time is not significant compared to the up-front cash value if the player has value on this market.

But you think it makes sense that Duke is the exception, that there tradition and reputation are so great, that it overrides the cash market. Well, then ... okay.

You think Kenny Anderson, Dennis Scott and Stephon Marberry came to GT for the “education” value. We simply put our foot in the water and get scared and pull out. There are zero clean programs in the NCAA in football or basketball.

 

[MtnWasp]

You think Kenny Anderson, Dennis Scott and Stephon Marberry came to GT for the “education” value.

Different eras. Different market dynamics and a changed economy in general. Those players don't look twice at GT in today's market.

 

[RamblinRed]

You think Kenny Anderson, Dennis Scott and Stephon Marberry came to GT for the “education” value. We simply put our foot in the water and get scared and pull out. There are zero clean programs in the NCAA in football or basketball.

I was in school during the Scott - Anderson timeframe. I actually gave D3 a ride across campus one day because I had a car and he did not. I would see Kenny riding a bike across campus.

It is a very different time. Recruiting changed drastically starting early in the 21st Century and has continued to move in one direction.

 

[lv20gt]

Duke vs UNC in the final four.

 

[MtnWasp]

Carolina looks very strong to me.