NCAA denies waivers for Clayton, Ezzard; Sims granted immediate eligibility

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,699
Location
Georgia
Did you actually read why Doege (GBU ->WVU QB) got the waiver? His brother was on the previous coaching staff that got canned during the offseason. If my family was on the staff ofg the team I played for I'd feel pretty uncomfortable staying as well. Ezzards coach wasn't his family member.

TD Roof left GT because of the same reason and was given a waiver at Indiana as well.

I LOATHE defending the NCAA, but the assertions you guys are making are not at all accurate.

So if the coach is family thats more important than a head coach and position coach leaving or getting fired. Got it. Because u know supporting nepotism is good too and bending rules because of that and treating it different makes a ton of sense.

See. To me. Its the same. A coach left. Period and should be treated the same thereby not giving preference to schools hiring family members for recruits, players, and treating em better when they are fired.

Dumb all around and another sham

And as i know. There is no family language in the waiver process.

Yet. A family member is dying and dude cant get a waiver. But if u are fired. U can.

Stfu already ncaa (not u the ncaa)
 

YJMD

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,628
I don't like the idea of a rigid rules based system for this because there will be many cases in both directions where rigid application of those rules produces results which just don't make sense for the intent of the rule. Plus a lot of the criteria involve very subjective judgment or a person's attestation which you have to accept at face value. As a doctor, I often have to fill out paperwork for someone to the best of my ability which asks very specific information e.g. duration of impairment, frequency of follow-up care needed, whether something will be permanent, is someone safe to do XYZ activity. All those questions sound reasonable, but are often can only be answered with a best guess, and sometimes you are placed in some trap by answering which makes you more liable, but for the most part unless you give a concrete specific answer, you might as well not have done it at all.

What does make sense, though, would be a very rigid and concrete initial review process that is done expediently and a subsequent appeals process that allows subjectivity to be judged.

But my biggest concern still holds and that is inequity. Someone with lower resources, no legal representation, trying to get records on behalf of a loved one to document their severe illness when their loved one has Medicaid, has faced transient homelessness, etc. is going to have a very hard time and no ally who knows the system to assist. Hell, in the hospital we often struggle to get necessary treatment records for our inpatients even knowing how to do it. Really, having a lawyer on your side who has actual time for you is the best thing, but they're also going to do the best job for your goal. As we have seen, even when it appears inappropriate, they're usually able to win which totally devalues the process and further exacerbates the inequity problem.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,726
I don’t think the NCAA is set up for subjectivity. Most of what I’ve seen from the NCAA is “these are the explicit rules; these are minor; these are major”. We’ve seen the same impact from a $150 violation as for a multi-thousand dollar violation.
I think that’s the source of a lot of the debate here. Some people are saying “the rule is 100 miles and it’s more than 100”. Others are saying “that makes no sense, there are no D1 schools in 100 miles”.
With the NCAA, whether a decision makes sense or is fair is less important than whether it falls in the black and white of the rules.
I can see why they’re so rule-bound, too. Once the NCAA allows subjectivity in, they’re going head to head with lawyers from Alabama and Penn State and OSU and Texas any time a school with a big legal team thinks they can get an edge. And those athletic departments will do that at the drop of a hat.
That it’s inequitable for the student athletes is collateral damage to them. And, in this case, to us and our student athletes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

YJMD

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,628
But the problem with that is they're already contending with lawyers causing rewriting of the rules in application, and we are given the appearance of inconsistent application of transfer waivers under same or similar circumstances. They may actually be consistent decisions with the rules, but in the absence of specific justification for those decisions we are ending up with this fiasco. But more than that is the lack of expedience here. If it was as straightforward as it seems, why did Clayton get denied now?
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
I don’t think the NCAA is set up for subjectivity. Most of what I’ve seen from the NCAA is “these are the explicit rules; these are minor; these are major”. We’ve seen the same impact from a $150 violation as for a multi-thousand dollar violation.
I think that’s the source of a lot of the debate here. Some people are saying “the rule is 100 miles and it’s more than 100”. Others are saying “that makes no sense, there are no D1 schools in 100 miles”.
With the NCAA, whether a decision makes sense or is fair is less important than whether it falls in the black and white of the rules.
I can see why they’re so rule-bound, too. Once the NCAA allows subjectivity in, they’re going head to head with lawyers from Alabama and Penn State and OSU and Texas any time a school with a big legal team thinks they can get an edge. And those athletic departments will do that at the drop of a hat.
That it’s inequitable for the student athletes is collateral damage to them. And, in this case, to us and our student athletes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The NCAA's problem is going to end up being how they hold students hostage and how that may impact their future earnings, while giving schools and coaches a free ride.
I do not want to see unrestricted and unlimited transfers, which is what could possibly happening it comes down to a court ruling.
I still think the one free transfer after freshman year is the best and easiest solution.
Hardships after that should be a matrix solution...not individual hard and fast rules.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,726
But the problem with that is they're already contending with lawyers causing rewriting of the rules in application, and we are given the appearance of inconsistent application of transfer waivers under same or similar circumstances. They may actually be consistent decisions with the rules, but in the absence of specific justification for those decisions we are ending up with this fiasco. But more than that is the lack of expedience here. If it was as straightforward as it seems, why did Clayton get denied now?

I would have to guess, since the only text I’ve seen is that Clayton got denied. My guess is that his family doesn’t live within the 100 mile radius.
When you’re evaluating on a letter of the rule basis, the fact that he clearly checks the other boxes but doesn’t check that one isn’t enough; one box unchecked, and you’re out.
Who do you know that got approved at more than a 100 mile radius from the school they were transferring to?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,125
Location
Augusta, Georgia
Why are our guys only getting their rejections a week and a half before our first game, leaving them little to no time to appeal and screwing with our coaches ability to plan things out, when the “big schools” got approved early in the summer?

This is fair. This is also one of biggest gripes about the process. I loathe the fact that the high visibility transfers seem to be answered early but everyone else has to wait interminably long to get an answer. THAT is patently unfair and I agree wholeheartedly.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,726
This is fair. This is also one of biggest gripes about the process. I loathe the fact that the high visibility transfers seem to be answered early but everyone else has to wait interminably long to get an answer. THAT is patently unfair and I agree wholeheartedly.

In human nature, it seems like yes’s arrive early and no’s drag out...
Looking back, as long as it took, maybe it was a warning sign.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,125
Location
Augusta, Georgia
So if the coach is family thats more important than a head coach and position coach leaving or getting fired. Got it. Because u know supporting nepotism is good too and bending rules because of that and treating it different makes a ton of sense.

I just think we're going to disagree on this. I see this as REVERSE nepotism. You will always be a blood link to the previous staff so there exists a strong possibility you will be discriminated against simply because of your family name.

I think the main problem with this debate is that most people have become intentionally entrenched in a singularly polar position: NCAA BAD! NCAA UNFAIR TO GT!!!

The reality is that there are some very good people who labor hard and strive to achieve fairness in these processes. Do they get it right 100% of the time? No, but I don't read into it an overarching narrative either. Occam's Razor applies. Biggest schools get the highest visibility transfers, which unfairly or not, get pushed to the front due to visibility.
 

mts315

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
995
I would have to guess, since the only text I’ve seen is that Clayton got denied. My guess is that his family doesn’t live within the 100 mile radius.
When you’re evaluating on a letter of the rule basis, the fact that he clearly checks the other boxes but doesn’t check that one isn’t enough; one box unchecked, and you’re out.
Who do you know that got approved at more than a 100 mile radius from the school they were transferring to?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Football/TransferPortal/
 
Last edited:

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,089
Location
North Shore, Chicago
As I understand it, the committee that does the initial assessment strictly follows the rules, as they are written. They reject the waiver application. The player/school appeals, and a separate committee hears the appeal and rules to confirm or overrule the rejection of the waiver application. It is my understanding that most of these guys you all are belly-aching about appealed their rejection and had it overruled, granting them immediate eligibility. I think people are not hearing all the middle stuff that's going on.
 

MacJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,405
As I understand it, the committee that does the initial assessment strictly follows the rules, as they are written. They reject the waiver application. The player/school appeals, and a separate committee hears the appeal and rules to confirm or overrule the rejection of the waiver application. It is my understanding that most of these guys you all are belly-aching about appealed their rejection and had it overruled, granting them immediate eligibility. I think people are not hearing all the middle stuff that's going on.
If that's the case, maybe Clayton and/or Sims gets the waiver this year. I don't have much hope though. I think @33jacket's money trail/betting lines take is pretty accurate. Clayton could swing a game for us if he as good as advertised.
 

Tech93

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,243
When you look at Justin Fields being approved you have to shake your head at the bureaucracy of the NCAA. He being approved meant big money for college football this year versus our transfers. The factories get the nod on these because at the end of the day they are the BCAA’s big producers. Sad to see for our program and others.
 

YJMD

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,628
As I understand it, the committee that does the initial assessment strictly follows the rules, as they are written. They reject the waiver application. The player/school appeals, and a separate committee hears the appeal and rules to confirm or overrule the rejection of the waiver application. It is my understanding that most of these guys you all are belly-aching about appealed their rejection and had it overruled, granting them immediate eligibility. I think people are not hearing all the middle stuff that's going on.

If so, then I really can't rationalize why it took so long for the initial decisions. And also the NCAA is doing an awful job of PR, and what the players and coaches are understanding about the process is very poor. Right now the NCAA's perception is in the toilet.
 
Top