NCAA Allows Players to Get Paid

[TooTall]

 

[forensicbuzz]

McKenzie Milton was the QB of UCF’s “national championship” team in 2017, and finished 8th in Heisman voting. He won 22 straight games at UCF, and his injury cost UCF a chance at a 2nd “national championship” in 2018. His social media following has very little, to nothing, to do with his school’s enrollment. And even given the large enrollment, is still a fraction of the following of what stars at schools with larger fan bases have. His following is smaller than UCF’s enrollment, while Trevor Lawrence’s is over 20 times Clemson’s enrollment. Ohio State is a larger school than Clemson, so why doesn’t Justin Fields have more combined follower than Lawrence? Liberty University has 110 THOUSAND students. Their QB from last year (who had pretty decent stats, mind you) has 3,500 Instagram followers. You brought in Juanyeh and Co.’s twitter followers when I’m talking about Instagram. Instagram almost always has more followers. And for the record Jahmyr Gibbs has 12k Instagram followers, and hasn’t even played a down in college.

The size of the school does not matter. The largest factors are: 1) Success in the national spotlight, and 2) Fanbase size. And larger schools ≠ larger fan base.

you're totally missing the point. It's not about what they have now, it's about what they CAN have in the future once the alumni base and fandom are coordinated to provide a strategic advantage. Numbers are important. We're going to have to agree to disagree because we have different perspectives, and the only proof is going to be time.

 

[yeti92]

The size of the school does not matter. The largest factors are: 1) Success in the national spotlight, and 2) Fanbase size. And larger schools ≠ larger fan base.

I would facepalm too if I were you, since you skipped right over my first question, so I'll ask again - how do you think fanbases are formed?

The twitter vs. instagram thing is not really important, though you are right that you referenced instagram and not twitter as I had originally thought. Juanyeh has 6k on instagram, Tariq has 3.3k, JG4 just shy of 5k.

Let's refer back to Mr. Milton and his 65k instagram followers. Who do you think these people are that want to follow him? Do you not think the majority of those followers are UCF fans?

Justin fields doesn't have as many followers as Lawrence because he isn't as accomplished and hasn't been in the spotlight as long, that's really not hard to understand.

And Liberty University, really? They play garbage football currently and have no history or reputation of success at all, that's why their qb has 3500 followers. But the school's enrollment means the potential is there.

Nobody is saying enrollment is the only factor, but you would have be an idiot/UGag fan to not see how it can affect this.

 

[JacketOff]

you're totally missing the point. It's not about what they have now, it's about what they CAN have in the future once the alumni base and fandom are coordinated to provide a strategic advantage. Numbers are important. We're going to have to agree to disagree because we have different perspectives, and the only proof is going to be time.

Schools with large alumni bases aren’t just going to magically become coordinated though. That’s the point I’m trying to make. If nobody has cared about UCF, or Liberty, or FIU, or any other school with a huge number of students, they won’t just randomly start now. Fan bases won’t suddenly start growing if they don’t already exist. UCF’s enrollment is larger than the capacity for their stadium. Ditto for FIU, Liberty, and many more. Large alumni bases is almost irrelevant. Obviously the larger your base is the more potential there is, but equating a large alumni base to a large fanbase is not meaningful.

Just look at Duke basketball. Duke has an undergrad enrollment of just over 6,600, and yet they have arguably the most popular basketball team in the country. Why? Because they perform on the national stage consistently.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t see why or how you can say having a large number of students on campus is relevant at all when it comes to future NIL figures. Student enrollment pales in comparison when I comes to national recognition and team success.

 

[JacketOff]

I would facepalm too if I were you, since you skipped right over my first question, so I'll ask again - how do you think fanbases are formed?

The twitter vs. instagram thing is not really important, though you are right that you referenced instagram and not twitter as I had originally thought. Juanyeh has 6k on instagram, Tariq has 3.3k, JG4 just shy of 5k.

Let's refer back to Mr. Milton and his 65k instagram followers. Who do you think these people are that want to follow him? Do you not think the majority of those followers are UCF fans?

Justin fields doesn't have as many followers as Lawrence because he isn't as accomplished and hasn't been in the spotlight as long, that's really not hard to understand.

And Liberty University, really? They play garbage football currently and have no history or reputation of success at all, that's why their qb has 3500 followers. But the school's enrollment means the potential is there.

Nobody is saying enrollment is the only factor, but you would have be an idiot/UGag fan to not see how it can affect this.

So you agree with me in that history, success, and spotlight are all more important in name recognition that the size of the school? Fields and Lawrence both play on teams who are historical powerhouses, and also modern day powerhouses. They met in the CFP, and one of them has a national title to his name. Both of their schools have fewer students than UCF, but both of them have multiple times the amount of followers Milton does.

I skipped over your first question because it’s not relevant to my point. Are fan bases generally formed through graduating students? Yes. But success and history plays just as much, if not more of a role. Joe Burrow currently has 1.1M insta followers. Now I really have no idea what his follower count looked like at this point last year, but given he was the starter for a top tier SEC team, and spent time at a top tier B1G team, I’d assume he probably had somewhere in the 100k range. Probably still more than McKenzie Milton even without accomplishing nearly as much, and with LSU and Ohio State both having smaller enrollments than UCF. Why? Because LSU and Ohio State are much more valuable brands, and their histories of success have allowed them to grow into much larger fan bases.

Once again, look at Duke basketball. One of the smallest enrollments in the P6 of D1 basketball, and arguably the largest fanbase in D1 basketball. Enrollment is so far down on the list of relevance for a fan base and potential NIL earnings that it might as well not even be considered.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Schools with large alumni bases aren’t just going to magically become coordinated though. That’s the point I’m trying to make. If nobody has cared about UCF, or Liberty, or FIU, or any other school with a huge number of students, they won’t just randomly start now. Fan bases won’t suddenly start growing if they don’t already exist. UCF’s enrollment is larger than the capacity for their stadium. Ditto for FIU, Liberty, and many more. Large alumni bases is almost irrelevant. Obviously the larger your base is the more potential there is, but equating a large alumni base to a large fanbase is not meaningful.

Just look at Duke basketball. Duke has an undergrad enrollment of just over 6,600, and yet they have arguably the most popular basketball team in the country. Why? Because they perform on the national stage consistently.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t see why or how you can say having a large number of students on campus is relevant at all when it comes to future NIL figures. Student enrollment pales in comparison when I comes to national recognition and team success.

You don't think the coaches and the administration at schools like UCF won't find ways to leverage what potential advantages they have? I agree that up until now enrollment wasn't as important, but when NIL became a reality, that whole dynamic changed. If the number of followers you have on social media is going to be a driver for this, it's going to be those with dynamic personalities that have access to and support from the largest group (fans). Yes, high alumni count = large potential fanbase. Those schools WILL use that advantage and kids will choose those schools for the potential to make bank. ND will have a huge advantage because they have at least 7 games nationally-televised games.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Once again, look at Duke basketball. One of the smallest enrollments in the P6 of D1 basketball, and arguably the largest fanbase in D1 basketball. Enrollment is so far down on the list of relevance for a fan base and potential NIL earnings that it might as well not even be considered.

Duke does not have a huge fanbase in D1 basketball. Almost everyone I know HATES Duke, and I grew up in New England, lived in the Southeast, and now live in the Midwest.

 

[yeti92]

Are fan bases generally formed through graduating students? Yes.

The largest factors are... 2) Fanbase size.

These are both your statements. Why are you confused about this?

 

[yeti92]

You don't think the coaches and the administration at schools like UCF won't find ways to leverage what potential advantages they have? I agree that up until now enrollment wasn't as important, but when NIL became a reality, that whole dynamic changed. If the number of followers you have on social media is going to be a driver for this, it's going to be those with dynamic personalities that have access to and support from the largest group (fans). Yes, high alumni count = large potential fanbase. Those schools WILL use that advantage and kids will choose those schools for the potential to make bank. ND will have a huge advantage because they have at least 7 games nationally-televised games.

He seems to think "magic" is the only way this could happen, so...

 

[forensicbuzz]

These are both your statements. Why are you confused about this?

I understand what he's saying in that UCF's alumni base isn't different this year than it was last year. Why would you expect anything to be different. I get that.

To me, the difference is that now there is incentive and an easy way for alumni that are marginal fans to support their program. As they are able to leverage that support into drawing better players they're going to garner more attention and be more successful, which in turn will draw more support and the cycle continues. That's the difference between "yesterday" and "today."

 

[Milwaukee]

Duke does not have a huge fanbase in D1 basketball. Almost everyone I know HATES Duke, and I grew up in New England, lived in the Southeast, and now live in the Midwest.

Duke has arguably the largest cbb fanbase on the planet.

 

[stech81]

If they show a picture of Bobby Dodd Stadium and it shows the fans on the west side I want to be paid. ( but it would be my luck they would enlarge it and I would be in the restroom and miss out)

 

[forensicbuzz]

Duke has arguably the largest cbb fanbase on the planet.

Maybe outside of the US. The only Duke basketball fans I know are Dukies. Just my opinion.

 

[JacketOff]

These are both your statements. Why are you confused about this?

“Generally.” Why are you confused that large schools don’t always have large fan bases? Just because someone goes to college somewhere, doesn’t automatically make them a fan of the school’s teams. Especially at G5 schools. Why is that so hard to understand? Do you know how many UF, FSU, and Miami fans go to UCF and FIU? Why would they suddenly stop rooting for their favorite teams just because of NIL rules that won’t even affect them personally?

Duke does not have a huge fanbase in D1 basketball. Almost everyone I know HATES Duke, and I grew up in New England, lived in the Southeast, and now live in the Midwest.

Well I have no idea how you’ve managed to avoid any and all area where Duke fans reside, but I can assure you, there are plenty of them. Duke is the Alabama of basketball. You either love them or hate them, and there are plenty on both sides. The point remains, they have an extremely small alumni base, yet their players are recognized nationwide because of their success and history. Teams with no history or no current success will not suddenly mutate into powerhouses simply because they have a large amount of students. Like I said, if nobody cared about them before, they won’t just synthesize into super fans based on some rule changes that doesn’t even affect them.

Georgia State is the largest university in Georgia. Why don’t they have the largest fanbase? Because they have no history, and they aren’t winning right now. Could that change if they start to win? Sure. And I understand your point of the potential they have. But they would need many years of continued success to surpass the fan bases of Tech and UGA. So many years of so much success that it’s not reasonable to assume it to be possible. The NIL rules aren’t going to turn Georgia State into a powerhouse. They’re not going to allow Liberty to compete with Alabama. They’re not going to make UCF the best team in Florida year in-year out. Could it give them a boost if they are successful over a sustained period? Sure. But that boost will be accessible by any school that maintains success in the new NIL era. If Tech starts going to the ACCCG every other year, playing in and winning NY6 bowls, and upsetting Georgia and Clemson pretty regularly, they’ll get just as much of a boost as any other school with a larger alumni base. My entire point is that success and national spotlight is infinitely more important in building a brand than simply how many people attend your school. If Jordan Yates, or Simms, or any other QB, or one of the RBs finishes 8th in Heisman voting and Tech wins 22 straight games, wins 3 out of 4 vs Clemson and UGA, and goes 1-1 in NY6 bowls in 2 years, and claims a national championship, they’ll easily have more than 65k followers.

I don’t know how I can make my point any more clear. I’m not saying it’s impossible for historically mediocre schools with large enrollments to build themselves into a powerhouse. I’m just saying that the enrollment itself will have very little to do with it if they do. They could admit 300k students per year, but if they don’t win or provide an attractive product, it won’t matter how many students are there. Small to medium size schools are just as likely to turn into a powerhouse by winning regularly as large schools are. Just look at Duke.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

If we can get a quality product on the field first, imagine a super star player realizing that, not only can he play in Atlanta, but he can be on national Waffle House commercials making $$$. I think Geoff Collins and his marketing strengths is the perfect Head Coach to have with players being allowed to be paid for their likeness.

 

[forensicbuzz]

“Generally.” Why are you confused that large schools don’t always have large fan bases? Just because someone goes to college somewhere, doesn’t automatically make them a fan of the school’s teams. Especially at G5 schools. Why is that so hard to understand? Do you know how many UF, FSU, and Miami fans go to UCF and FIU? Why would they suddenly stop rooting for their favorite teams just because of NIL rules that won’t even affect them personally?


Well I have no idea how you’ve managed to avoid any and all area where Duke fans reside, but I can assure you, there are plenty of them. Duke is the Alabama of basketball. You either love them or hate them, and there are plenty on both sides. The point remains, they have an extremely small alumni base, yet their players are recognized nationwide because of their success and history. Teams with no history or no current success will not suddenly mutate into powerhouses simply because they have a large amount of students. Like I said, if nobody cared about them before, they won’t just synthesize into super fans based on some rule changes that doesn’t even affect them.

Georgia State is the largest university in Georgia. Why don’t they have the largest fanbase? Because they have no history, and they aren’t winning right now. Could that change if they start to win? Sure. And I understand your point of the potential they have. But they would need many years of continued success to surpass the fan bases of Tech and UGA. So many years of so much success that it’s not reasonable to assume it to be possible. The NIL rules aren’t going to turn Georgia State into a powerhouse. They’re not going to allow Liberty to compete with Alabama. They’re not going to make UCF the best team in Florida year in-year out. Could it give them a boost if they are successful over a sustained period? Sure. But that boost will be accessible by any school that maintains success in the new NIL era. If Tech starts going to the ACCCG every other year, playing in and winning NY6 bowls, and upsetting Georgia and Clemson pretty regularly, they’ll get just as much of a boost as any other school with a larger alumni base. My entire point is that success and national spotlight is infinitely more important in building a brand than simply how many people attend your school. If Jordan Yates, or Simms, or any other QB, or one of the RBs finishes 8th in Heisman voting and Tech wins 22 straight games, wins 3 out of 4 vs Clemson and UGA, and goes 1-1 in NY6 bowls in 2 years, and claims a national championship, they’ll easily have more than 65k followers.

I don’t know how I can make my point any more clear. I’m not saying it’s impossible for historically mediocre schools with large enrollments to build themselves into a powerhouse. I’m just saying that the enrollment itself will have very little to do with it if they do. They could admit 300k students per year, but if they don’t win or provide an attractive product, it won’t matter how many students are there. Small to medium size schools are just as likely to turn into a powerhouse by winning regularly as large schools are. Just look at Duke.

I understand your point. I just don't agree with you. I said that before.

Today's reality is not the same as yesterday's. It's pretty simple. You don't know how this is going to change how marginal fans will react to an opportunity to help their team. UCF could become a real player if their alumni get behind their team. If all they have to do is follow their star players to effect serious change for their recruiting, the sheer volume could make a huge difference. To your last comment, you have no idea whether or not the alumni base will make a difference. I don't know either, but I believe it will. I think it will become a huge component of recruiting.