NC St: We win tonight

[Peacone36]

with all due respest Jorgenson isnt a ACC caliber player start or even primary backup...he is a PWO type IMO. Hard to polish turds.

I think georges hunt has grown alot. Charles Mitchell in 2 years has grown some...so we are being a bit hard on the staff. The fact is the biggest weakness of the staff is inability to get talent IMO. As evidence by jorgenson

Jorgensen doesn't look the same as he did at the prep level. He was a legit D1 prospect in HS and in a system that runs in transition I think he can excel. Some guys don't ever get all the way back from the knee though. We should know. Glover Tarver, Holsey and now Jorgy are all examples.

I guess I should have been more specific. MGH and Chuck were both top 100 kids, their potential was always there. To take kids like Daniel Miller, Ben Lammers, Jorgy, Q, and Bolden who are middle of the road 3 stars or 2 star guys like AD and Sly and make them solid ACC level players takes a particular coaching ability to develop and coach up athletes.

Hell, Udofia was a 4* guy and we didn't get much out of him either.

 

[33jacket]

Every time someone says something like this, I say something like as follows:
If the biggest problem is talent, then BG is a great game-day coach because we've played some really competitive games with top teams. On the other hand, having overtime and less than 5pt losses to both top 20 teams and the bottom teams of the ACC suggests that the problem hasn't been talent but coaching. (just my take on the data)

Oh, and I really think that your take on Jorg is uncalled for.

In basketball, talent is much bigger pure role than coaching especially gameday coaching (especially considering 1 and dones where coaching is almost minimal)....not like football at all...but I hear you on your point. I think the talent issue is bigger than the pure coaching issue at tech right now....just my opinion. Close games happen, and can happen due to effort alone....lets face it; there is TALENT on all the ACC teams, but we are bottom 1/3 for sure.

I don't think i said anything bad about jorge but if I offended someone sorry; for me he is a PWO type...we say that about football players all the time (not starting D1 BCS guy etc) no biggy. He found his proper spot in the rotation vs nc state. Lets see how the rest of the year goes.

 

[33jacket]

Jorgensen doesn't look the same as he did at the prep level. He was a legit D1 prospect in HS and in a system that runs in transition I think he can excel. Some guys don't ever get all the way back from the knee though. We should know. Glover Tarver, Holsey and now Jorgy are all examples.

I guess I should have been more specific. MGH and Chuck were both top 100 kids, their potential was always there. To take kids like Daniel Miller, Ben Lammers, Jorgy, Q, and Bolden who are middle of the road 3 stars or 2 star guys like AD and Sly and make them solid ACC level players takes a particular coaching ability to develop and coach up athletes.

Hell, Udofia was a 4* guy and we didn't get much out of him either.

I am actually a bigger fan of Gregory than I am of Roof. I don't want gregory gone...

 

[Peacone36]

I am actually a bigger fan of Gregory than I am of Roof. I don't want gregory gone...

Why? What has he done to warrant your support?

Please don't say graduate players. There are plenty of winning coaches who do that.

 

[RamblinRed]

Jorgensen doesn't look the same as he did at the prep level. He was a legit D1 prospect in HS and in a system that runs in transition I think he can excel. Some guys don't ever get all the way back from the knee though. We should know. Glover Tarver, Holsey and now Jorgy are all examples.

I guess I should have been more specific. MGH and Chuck were both top 100 kids, their potential was always there. To take kids like Daniel Miller, Ben Lammers, Jorgy, Q, and Bolden who are middle of the road 3 stars or 2 star guys like AD and Sly and make them solid ACC level players takes a particular coaching ability to develop and coach up athletes.

Hell, Udofia was a 4* guy and we didn't get much out of him either.

I'd agree. His HS film showed someone with the potential to be a solid ACC level starter - and Jorgy was playing in a tough NE prep league that used college rules and had lots of Div 1 talent.
His game has never looked the same since his injury - his shot has never looked the same. Like he simply is missing something in his legs.
Could end up being another like Glover or Smith or Kam who never really 100% recovered from a leg injury. Smith and kam both had to change their style of play alot after their injuries.

 

[kg01]

I am actually a bigger fan of Gregory than I am of Roof. I don't want gregory gone...

That's probably the most shocking thing I've seen here in a while. Do you not really watch the bball team as much as football? And that's a serious question. I know some folks lean one way moreso than the other.

 

[Peacone36]

It's a serious question from me as well. I welcome the discussion.

 

[33jacket]

That's probably the most shocking thing I've seen here in a while. Do you not really watch the bball team as much as football? And that's a serious question. I know some folks lean one way moreso than the other.

no. I watch and know football much more intently hence why my opinions are much more damning for Roof and why I am more ok with gregory.

But also my opinion is largely influenced by a ex Big East head coach of 8 years who is a friend and knows BG very well. He knew him through Nike sponsor events that Phil Knight throws. So his input on BG to me is valuable...and his coaching knowledge etc. Tech's situation too and what BG has told him. So that is a big influence

 

[gt69hjcollins]

I like BG as well. He has developed a team first approach and his guys play hard. I think he believes in doing it the "right way" and I think our student athletes are in hand hands under his leadership. He needs to improve his recruiting and I think he is working on that. In the mean time he has done a good job getting transfers to fill some of the rolls. Even though progress has been slow, I think everyone must agree that his teams have gotten better each year.

 

[33jacket]

Why? What has he done to warrant your support?

Please don't say graduate players. There are plenty of winning coaches who do that.

First, the shambles he came in under, including home court, restrictions and a disaster roster left by hewitt that included trouble makers he had to off load. That and a crippling budget. But see my post one above too for some more reasons.

I think the final reason, may be I could care a less about basketball in relativity to football. So my passion to have judgement is far less and patience is far more (on top of a crippling behind the scenes mess of a program that Rad left behind)...make sense?

So for that I support him. I think he can do well...i think alot needs to improve too...some he controls and some not. Like his assistants have to be upgraded...but he can't pay em....

Listen. This is really simple. If GT could throw assistant and program money at football and basketball like other schools do...or if GT decided to, we would not be in this mess...even with tough academia. Trust it...the behind the scenes cost cuts are outrageous.

 

[gt69hjcollins]

I like BG as well. He has developed a team first approach and his guys play hard. I think he believes in doing it the "right way" and I think our student athletes are in hand hands under his leadership. He needs to improve his recruiting and I think he is working on that. In the mean time he has done a good job getting transfers to fill some of the rolls. Even though progress has been slow, I think everyone must agree that his teams have gotten better each year.

Sorry I meant "good hands"

 

[dtm1997]

@33jacket I agree on better quality assistants. I agree that BG actually does know basketball really well (as displayed in his press conferences). I agree that he has been highly deficient in gathering talent.

All of that said, it's been 5 years and even if this year ends up OK, it's only going to be OK. Next year is a crap shoot at best.

Despite the hindrances placed upon him externally, despite his legit knowledge for the game, despite his academic performance improvement, there's no indication he will improve when it comes to driving the bus during games. In a hypothetical swap of coaches with VT, we win easily with our existing talent, possibly by 20 points. How many other games can we say that about? 2, 5, 10, 20?

I like the guy, but he's had his chances and it's not going to work long term. I don't necessarily think we're asking him to leave just yet, but he's not going to be our long term solution.

It's nice that you can preach patience, but you'll have to understand if I throw a flag on that when you're following that statement with the fact your interest in hoops appears to be marginal.

ETA: I'd request that you please not use "hard to polish turds" when referring to players, regardless of their performance. No S/A should be called a piece of ****.

 

[AE 87]

@33jacket I agree on better quality assistants. I agree that BG actually does know basketball really well (as displayed in his press conferences). I agree that he has been highly deficient in gathering talent.

All of that said, it's been 5 years and even if this year ends up OK, it's only going to be OK. Next year is a crap shoot at best.

Despite the hindrances placed upon him externally, despite his legit knowledge for the game, despite his academic performance improvement, there's no indication he will improve when it comes to driving the bus during games. In a hypothetical swap of coaches with VT, we win easily with our existing talent, possibly by 20 points. How many other games can we say that about? 2, 5, 10, 20?

I like the guy, but he's had his chances and it's not going to work long term. I don't necessarily think we're asking him to leave just yet, but he's not going to be our long term solution.

It's nice that you can preach patience, but you'll have to understand if I throw a flag on that when you're following that statement with the fact your interest in hoops appears to be marginal.

.
FWIW, this expresses my opinion as well (iiuc). I think our biggest problem has been game planning and game management. I used to caveat this concern only with the offense, but I've seen the same sorts of problems with our D this year. To me, it seems like big-picture, scheme issues etc.

 

[Peacone36]

It must be the way Im wired. After 5 years the results on the court are simply unacceptable.

 

[33jacket]

.
To me, it seems like big-picture, scheme issues etc.

I know the feeling watching our football D. I cant comment on our basketball though. But unlike some posters i at least respect the fact people think they see scheme issues in basketball. For me its clear in the other sport so when u see it, and it goes unfixed, for years, i am with you you move on as a fan.

 

[33jacket]

It must be the way Im wired. After 5 years the results on the court are simply unacceptable.

For me they are not acceptable either. But for me nor is one way gt runs the program. So.....

 

[up state jacket]

I'd agree. His HS film showed someone with the potential to be a solid ACC level starter - and Jorgy was playing in a tough NE prep league that used college rules and had lots of Div 1 talent.
His game has never looked the same since his injury - his shot has never looked the same. Like he simply is missing something in his legs.
Could end up being another like Glover or Smith or Kam who never really 100% recovered from a leg injury. Smith and kam both had to change their style of play alot after their injuries.

Kam couldn't get off the ground after his injury. Jorg looks slow with limited agility. Why the coaches haven't worked on his jump shot is bewildering. Him being allowed to have that form on his jump shot is a fireable offense to me. His defense is definitely lacking. In half court sets, he is one that gets attacked time and time again. I have forgotten what it looks like having a good not great just good PG running an offense wearing a Tech jersey. Jarret Jack (very good )

 

[orientalnc]

@33jacket I agree on better quality assistants. I agree that BG actually does know basketball really well (as displayed in his press conferences). I agree that he has been highly deficient in gathering talent.

All of that said, it's been 5 years and even if this year ends up OK, it's only going to be OK. Next year is a crap shoot at best.

Despite the hindrances placed upon him externally, despite his legit knowledge for the game, despite his academic performance improvement, there's no indication he will improve when it comes to driving the bus during games. In a hypothetical swap of coaches with VT, we win easily with our existing talent, possibly by 20 points. How many other games can we say that about? 2, 5, 10, 20?

I like the guy, but he's had his chances and it's not going to work long term. I don't necessarily think we're asking him to leave just yet, but he's not going to be our long term solution.

It's nice that you can preach patience, but you'll have to understand if I throw a flag on that when you're following that statement with the fact your interest in hoops appears to be marginal.

ETA: I'd request that you please not use "hard to polish turds" when referring to players, regardless of their performance. No S/A should be called a piece of ****.

Well said. I do not think, even for a moment, our players are giving less than their best.

 

[GTpdm]

ETA: I'd request that you please not use "hard to polish turds" when referring to players, regardless of their performance. No S/A should be called a piece of ****.

The exception, of course being uGA student-athletes...after all, their AA building is called the Butt-Smear Building...

 

[McCamish Maniacs]

ETA: I'd request that you please not use "hard to polish turds" when referring to players, regardless of their performance. No S/A should be called a piece of ****.

Thank you!