NAVY......

[Ash]

Watching just a few series of that Army game...their OL was blocking so much better than ours. Navy seems to be able to do that too. I don't know what the difference is.

 

[Yjacket82]

I do not know if the following is a defense or a criticism of JT, or if it even plays in the equation. So he has graduated and probably lined up a well deserved 90k a year job in an executive training program (assuming a company is smart enough to hire him). I just imagine that his world perspective may have changed a bit, whether he realizes it or not.

 

[stpetewreck]

I miss the midline play sooooo much it kills me. We get to option off tough DTs AND get two extra inside blockers with ABs flying into the hole cleaning up any missed LBs and what not. All it takes is 3 or 4 successful midlines and the TO is back on the table without the pitch lanes flooded. I look at midlines like a boxing coach would look at body punching effectively before moving up to the head (TO). If your opponent has his gloves up around his temples (LBs flying to the lanes) while against the ropes, you better pull out the body punches and go to work.

I had to log in and post simply because someone mentioned missing the midline. I can't express how anxious I am to see it again. I love our offense, but it's a different beast if we run it with a QB that can run midline consistently and take on hits from LBs. Apart from the crazy amount of fumbles, Mathew Jordan was moving our offense quite well against Miami in '15 using quite a bit of midlines/qb follows.

Everyone has their ideal QB for our offense. Mine is a Josh Nesbit that can throw the ball around. I would gladly give up a homerun hitter for a QB that can consistently get 4-7 yards between (and just outside) the tackles.

 

[Frenchise]

I had to log in and post simply because someone mentioned missing the midline. I can't express how anxious I am to see it again. I love our offense, but it's a different beast if we run it with a QB that can run midline consistently and take on hits from LBs. Apart from the crazy amount of fumbles, Mathew Jordan was moving our offense quite well against Miami in '15 using quite a bit of midlines/qb follows.

Everyone has their ideal QB for our offense. Mine is a Josh Nesbit that can throw the ball around. I would gladly give up a homerun hitter for a QB that can consistently get 4-7 yards between (and just outside) the tackles.

Nesbit couldn't pass at all...but he was a warrior.

 

[stpetewreck]

Nesbit couldn't pass at all...but he was a warrior.

So true. Which is why I'm pumped by prospects like Lucas Johnson. If only he's a warrior and okay with taking a couple hits. Though (admittedly) I was super pumped by the coming of Vad Lee. I only want a warrior-mentality QB that can consistently move the chains with even just 4 yard runs that end in falling forward.

Even if that QB can't throw well, almost any D1 QB we put out there is going to be able to throw a bomb down the sidelines into a 1v1 with our WR on an island.

 

[Fatmike91]

I watched Navy play, here is what I see:

- Impact of QB keep/midline (this has been mentioned already).
- Speed of the triple on the edge. More than once I couldn't follow the ball!
- Play action passing - This is creative and seamless in the offense. Different formations and plays than Tech. I was surprised that the play I was watching was a pass. That never happens with GT, it's like you always know it's a pass.

So watching Navy I can't always follow the ball and I'm sometimes surprised when it's play-action. They are doing some things right.

/

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Nesbit couldn't pass at all...but he was a warrior.

But he was recruited for a pro style offense and he put up ridiculous numbers in HS. Shows you how tough it is to recruit a great passing QB.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

But he was recruited for a pro style offense and he put up ridiculous numbers in HS. Shows you how tough it is to recruit a great passing QB.

JN is my favorite QB under CPJ. Period. He wasn't accurate passing but I think that comes from the body blows our QBs take going into the line. And at GT level of football, there are many more games a year than Navy's where the D's are meat grinders. It doesn't take much to throw off the passing mechanics. (My answer is play much more of 2 QBs. In one or two months we'll be bitching that we have an inexperienced QB next year. )

I would take JN as our QB anytime since win or lose, he had the size and attitude to make the game what it was designed to be ..... a training ground for combat. Maybe that's why Navy has an attitude advantage that helps them overcome their less talented physicality. Plus they really play for the team as there is virtually no NFL future for them.

 

[33jacket]

Watching just a few series of that Army game...their OL was blocking so much better than ours. Navy seems to be able to do that too. I don't know what the difference is.

Todd spencer > mike sewak

 

[33jacket]

JN is my favorite QB under CPJ. Period. He wasn't accurate passing but I think that comes from the body blows our QBs take going into the line. And at GT level of football, there are many more games a year than Navy's where the D's are meat grinders. It doesn't take much to throw off the passing mechanics. (My answer is play much more of 2 QBs. In one or two months we'll be bitching that we have an inexperienced QB next year. )

I would take JN as our QB anytime since win or lose, he had the size and attitude to make the game what it was designed to be ..... a training ground for combat. Maybe that's why Navy has an attitude advantage that helps them overcome their less talented physicality. Plus they really play for the team as there is virtually no NFL future for them.

I think people should go back and look at the completion percentages of nesbit tevin and jt for a career number.

You will see all 3 are about 50 percent area.

Its because that is the design of the offense. Its designed to use the passing game for low percentage big downfield hits in passing. Pauls short passing game is called the option. So to this point its darn impossible to jude how good a qb could be passing. We do odd stuff in the passing game that doesnt help the qb or line. We employ techniques only gt uses to pass. Not a fan but its part of his offense

I would take nesbit over anyone to date. Maybe jt is close. But josh was a hero at the time

 

[Lexjacket]

Here's the game with Memphis........

 

[leftylover]

If we put Jordan in, our TO will look fast again immediately. MJ gets it headed upfield very quickly. He doesn't slow play the second phase like JT has gotten into the habit of doing. He may not get it pitched sometimes, but he will get it headed north. PLUS, with MJ, we would run some midline effectively and that would slow the defense's pursuit to the lanes quite a bit. It is hard to look "fast" with the option when your change up is the counter, which is a very slow developing play that JT runs instead of midline.

I miss the midline play sooooo much it kills me. We get to option off tough DTs AND get two extra inside blockers with ABs flying into the hole cleaning up any missed LBs and what not. All it takes is 3 or 4 successful midlines and the TO is back on the table without the pitch lanes flooded. I look at midlines like a boxing coach would look at body punching effectively before moving up to the head (TO). If your opponent has his gloves up around his temples (LBs flying to the lanes) while against the ropes, you better pull out the body punches and go to work.

Where has this sentiment been all season.....

 

[Techster]

I think people should go back and look at the completion percentages of nesbit tevin and jt for a career number.

You will see all 3 are about 50 percent area.

Its because that is the design of the offense. Its designed to use the passing game for low percentage big downfield hits in passing. Pauls short passing game is called the option. So to this point its darn impossible to jude how good a qb could be passing. We do odd stuff in the passing game that doesnt help the qb or line. We employ techniques only gt uses to pass. Not a fan but its part of his offense

I would take nesbit over anyone to date. Maybe jt is close. But josh was a hero at the time

It's part design of the offense. If you look at the history of CPJ's QBs, not many with more than 50 pass attempts in a season have completion % over 50%.

It's also that Nesbitt wasn't an accurate passer. Remember Gailey using Nesbitt as a wildcat QB his freshmen year? Remember the wide open guys he would miss the times he actually passed from the wildcat? Same happened in CPJ's offense. I do think had Nesbitt played in today's spread passing & option offenses he probably would have been a better passer. He was pretty good in HS when he played in a spread offense.

One of the things that made Nesbitt such a great QB in CPJ's offense is that he had a defender's mentality. He sought contact at times to send messages. He was afterall also a safety in HS, and ended up there in the NFL for a season. It's been said by some that Nesbitt probably would have been an All Conference safety had he played on that side of the ball.

If you think about it, GT actually already has a QB on the roster that fits the "Nesbitt mold". He's playing on defense right now...AJ Gray.

 

[Jim Prather]

Memphis may be a decent team, but go back and watch what they were doing on defense. It was one of the worst strategies you will ever see. They were regularly walking the middle linebacker up to the B-Gap where the tackle would wipe him out without even having to work for it. At that point they had no one to account for the Qb, who ran all over them.
Contrast that with most of the teams we play where the middle LB lines up deeper than normal and the defensive linemen are holding our linemen who are trying to release to get to the second level.
It's not an apples to apples comparison...

 

[33jacket]

It's part design of the offense. If you look at the history of CPJ's QBs, not many with more than 50 pass attempts in a season have completion % over 50%.

It's also that Nesbitt wasn't an accurate passer. Remember Gailey using Nesbitt as a wildcat QB his freshmen year? Remember the wide open guys he would miss the times he actually passed from the wildcat? Same happened in CPJ's offense. I do think had Nesbitt played in today's spread passing & option offenses he probably would have been a better passer. He was pretty good in HS when he played in a spread offense.

One of the things that made Nesbitt such a great QB in CPJ's offense is that he had a defender's mentality. He sought contact at times to send messages. He was afterall also a safety in HS, and ended up there in the NFL for a season. It's been said by some that Nesbitt probably would have been an All Conference safety had he played on that side of the ball.

If you think about it, GT actually already has a QB on the roster that fits the "Nesbitt mold". He's playing on defense right now...AJ Gray.

nesbitt may have been an inaccurate passer, may not have been. Kids develop in a system over time and talking about what he did in Chan's system as a true freshman is not a great data sample IMO.

If you watched Tevin Washington throw a ball as a true freshman you would have been in shock. First he couldn't through it more than 35 yards and it was the slowest ugliest ball you ever saw...he developed to a serviceable passer...

No one knows what josh could be as a QB over 4 years in a QB friendly system...we just don't know; its probably better than Pauls system though....

FYI
Under pauls system
Nesbit 44% (390 Attempts)
Tevin - 50% (345 attempts)
JT - 48% (475 attempts)

All are in that area of 45-50%. In our system 44% is not THAT big a difference from 50%....for Josh to have been 50% in Pauls system he would have had to have completed 27 more passes over 3 seasons.

Basically 9 more completions a year....So less than one a game. Big difference no, but impactful maybe...who knows...

my point is, in our system, no one looks sexy with comp %. And I venture to guess all three look better in a QB friendly system...Josh is not that far off from the other two...its all about the same to me...

 

[Techster]

nesbitt may have been an inaccurate passer, may not have been. Kids develop in a system over time and talking about what he did in Chan's system as a true freshman is not a great data sample IMO.

If you watched Tevin Washington throw a ball as a true freshman you would have been in shock. First he couldn't through it more than 35 yards and it was the slowest ugliest ball you ever saw...he developed to a serviceable passer...

No one knows what josh could be as a QB over 4 years in a QB friendly system...we just don't know; its probably better than Pauls system though....

FYI
Under pauls system
Nesbit 44% (390 Attempts)
Tevin - 50% (345 attempts)
JT - 48% (475 attempts)

All are in that area of 45-50%. In our system 44% is not THAT big a difference from 50%....for Josh to have been 50% in Pauls system he would have had to have completed 27 more passes over 3 seasons.

Basically 9 more completions a year....So less than one a game. Big difference no, but impactful maybe...who knows...

my point is, in our system, no one looks sexy with comp %. And I venture to guess all three look better in a QB friendly system...Josh is not that far off from the other two...its all about the same to me...

We're actually saying the same thing.

Josh had enough pass attempts in CPJ's system to know he wasn't an accurate passer for a college QB. BUT, comparatively speaking, he was just as accurate as most other QBs that played in CPJ's offense.

Would Nesbitt develop into a better passer in say Urban Meyer's or Gus Malzahn's SO offense? I know this, he would have gotten more passing reps and therefore he may have developed into a better passer over time. Of course, that assumes JN would have beaten out guys like Tim Tebow for QB. It's no secret that Nesbitt would not have picked GT had CPJ already been here (per his own words in an SI article), and the reason he picked GT over other schools is because other schools wanted him at safety. I think he would have moved to safety had Chan Gailey not gotten fired considering the QB talent coming in (namely Sean Renfree)...though he might still have played some wildcat.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

It is all apples and oranges. All of our starting QBs have had different strengths and weaknesses and each has played with different levels of talent around them on the field.

If you surrounded JN and TW with the cast on O from 2014 I think each would have about the same level of success JT had.

 

[gt02]

If we put Jordan in, our TO will look fast again immediately. MJ gets it headed upfield very quickly. He doesn't slow play the second phase like JT has gotten into the habit of doing. He may not get it pitched sometimes, but he will get it headed north. PLUS, with MJ, we would run some midline effectively and that would slow the defense's pursuit to the lanes quite a bit. It is hard to look "fast" with the option when your change up is the counter, which is a very slow developing play that JT runs instead of midline.

I miss the midline play sooooo much it kills me. We get to option off tough DTs AND get two extra inside blockers with ABs flying into the hole cleaning up any missed LBs and what not. All it takes is 3 or 4 successful midlines and the TO is back on the table without the pitch lanes flooded. I look at midlines like a boxing coach would look at body punching effectively before moving up to the head (TO). If your opponent has his gloves up around his temples (LBs flying to the lanes) while against the ropes, you better pull out the body punches and go to work.

Explain this to me. Why can't we run midline with JT?

 

[IronJacket7]

Explain this to me. Why can't we run midline with JT?

We do everyone once in a while. I think largely its due to opposing DCs choosing to take away the dive. When their Dline is crashing consistently it makes it difficult to run midline. This is why you see us run much more perimeter stuff.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

If you surrounded JN and TW with the cast on O from 2014 I think each would have about the same level of success JT had.

And if you gave JT the cast of 2009, we probably have similar level of success as well. I think JT passes(no pun intended) the eye test for passing the ball better than JN and last year's abysmal season overall hurts his stats, but there's also no denying JT lacks JN's ability to get consistent yardage in the short running game which is a big plus for this offense.

I think Washington is the worst of the bunch, but he was still a fairly consistent Option QB. He never had an 09 or 14 season where he had legit playmakers with him, so who knows. I'm sure if Washington had Bey-Bey(or Smelter) to sling it to and Dwyer (or Laskey/Days) to hand it off to, he'd probably have lead us to an OB like Nesbitt and Thomas did, too.