NAVY......

takethepoints

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If we put Jordan in, our TO will look fast again immediately. MJ gets it headed upfield very quickly. He doesn't slow play the second phase like JT has gotten into the habit of doing. He may not get it pitched sometimes, but he will get it headed north. PLUS, with MJ, we would run some midline effectively and that would slow the defense's pursuit to the lanes quite a bit. It is hard to look "fast" with the option when your change up is the counter, which is a very slow developing play that JT runs instead of midline.
Well, I'm on record saying that we'll look more like Navy next year with Jordan at QB. Given the differences in schedule, it's a question whether that will lead to the kinds of results the Mids are looking at this year.

I'll also say this, however. I don't buy it that JT has become more tentative with the TO. I think what we have with him this year is a combination of effects. First, there is no question that if he can find a lane to run, he should. He isn't often running right at the option guy because he knows that, if he can get any wiggle room at all, he'll cause real damage. So he tries to find that room. Further, if he can get loose, passing becomes a lot easier. Second, he's usually the best player on the field for us; shoot, in most games he's the best player on the field, period. Keeping the ball in his hands is a good idea and Coach knows it. Like Coach Kelly said, he's a game wrecker and he probably feels a responsibility to wreck as many of them as he can. This is compounded by the limited experience he has around him. If Mills was a junior, we'd look a lot more like 2014. I wish he felt more confident, especially in his ABs. Or, failing that, we could keep Lynch on the field more often and relieve some of the anxiety. (Why aren't we doing that, btw?)

But, yes, I'm looking forward to next year too. It'll be just like the good old days; less explosion, more grind. I love that.
 
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I watched Navy play, here is what I see:

- Impact of QB keep/midline (this has been mentioned already).
- Speed of the triple on the edge. More than once I couldn't follow the ball!
- Play action passing - This is creative and seamless in the offense. Different formations and plays than Tech. I was surprised that the play I was watching was a pass. That never happens with GT, it's like you always know it's a pass.

So watching Navy I can't always follow the ball and I'm sometimes surprised when it's play-action. They are doing some things right.

/
there QB is the back-up playing because of injury to the starter. He's from Newsome High in Tampa down the road from my house. I think he's a freshman. Correction, he's a senior
 

stech81

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Well, I'm on record saying that we'll look more like Navy next year with Jordan at QB. Given the differences in schedule, it's a question whether that will lead to the kinds of results the Mids are looking at this year.

I'll also say this, however. I don't buy it that JT has become more tentative with the TO. I think what we have with him this year is a combination of effects. First, there is no question that if he can find a lane to run, he should. He isn't often running right at the option guy because he knows that, if he can get any wiggle room at all, he'll cause real damage. So he tries to find that room. Further, if he can get loose, passing becomes a lot easier. Second, he's usually the best player on the field for us; shoot, in most games he's the best player on the field, period. Keeping the ball in his hands is a good idea and Coach knows it. Like Coach Kelly said, he's a game wrecker and he probably feels a responsibility to wreck as many of them as he can. This is compounded by the limited experience he has around him. If Mills was a junior, we'd look a lot more like 2014. I wish he felt more confident, especially in his ABs. Or, failing that, we could keep Lynch on the field more often and relieve some of the anxiety. (Why aren't we doing that, btw?)

But, yes, I'm looking forward to next year too. It'll be just like the good old days; less explosion, more grind. I love that.
I have no idea but it looks like JT wants to use his speed to get to the outside. Problem with that it is the A-backs lane. I also think next year will be our year ( yes I know some hate to hear that) we only lose the center and QB on offense. Finding a center concerns me more then a QB. I feel MJ will be fine. Remember in 2014 JT started with very little playing time in 2013 but had players around him with experience and it helps.
 

alagold

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If we put Jordan in, our TO will look fast again immediately. MJ gets it headed upfield very quickly. He doesn't slow play the second phase like JT has gotten into the habit of doing. He may not get it pitched sometimes, but he will get it headed north. PLUS, with MJ, we would run some midline effectively and that would slow the defense's pursuit to the lanes quite a bit. It is hard to look "fast" with the option when your change up is the counter, which is a very slow developing play that JT runs instead of midline.

I miss the midline play sooooo much it kills me. We get to option off tough DTs AND get two extra inside blockers with ABs flying into the hole cleaning up any missed LBs and what not. All it takes is 3 or 4 successful midlines and the TO is back on the table without the pitch lanes flooded. I look at midlines like a boxing coach would look at body punching effectively before moving up to the head (TO). If your opponent has his gloves up around his temples (LBs flying to the lanes) while against the ropes, you better pull out the body punches and go to work.

B,
Are you suggesting that MJ is better than JT? I've got to disagree.He may run the midline better but so much more atheticism and speed is lost.Not to mention ,until proven differently MJ does not offer a consistent pass threat.It might change but I sure wouldn't swap no matter how slow some plays go now...
 

takethepoints

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I just watched some of the Navy film and I noticed something.

Their guards on O were in a three point stance and leaning back on their haunches. The OTs looked just like we do; i.e. four point stance with a forward lean. But not the guards. I had a hard time telling whether they were actually in a three point stance, that's how much they were leaning back.

I wonder why they're doing that. It didn't seem to hurt the run blocking at all and - here I'm guessing - it looked like they were in a better pass blocking position; all they had to do was stand up instead of fire out. Maybe we should try this. Once our guards get a little more experience, that is.
 

first&ten

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I'm not knocking KN, he's a darn good coach.....but what he and CPJ inherited are vastly different. His record at Navy should be better for that reason.
No disrespect, but what johnson inherited has been gone for 7 years. These last few years are all his babies.
 

dmurdock

Jolly Good Fellow
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I'm not knocking KN, he's a darn good coach.....but what he and CPJ inherited are vastly different. His record at Navy should be better for that reason.

No disrespect, but what Johnson inherited has been gone for 7 years. These last few years are all his babies.

Whiskey_Clear was referring to Navy. Paul Johnson inherited a Navy program that had won 1 game total the previous two seasons before his arrival. KN inherited the program CPJ left behind, 5 straight seasons of at least 8 wins and a 10-0 record against their biggest rivals (academies). Therefore, KN's Navy record should be better than CPJ's Navy record.
 

Boomergump

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B,
Are you suggesting that MJ is better than JT? I've got to disagree.He may run the midline better but so much more atheticism and speed is lost.Not to mention ,until proven differently MJ does not offer a consistent pass threat.It might change but I sure wouldn't swap no matter how slow some plays go now...
Absolutely not. I was responding to a concern about the perceived "speed " of the offense as in comparison to NAVY. When you look at NAVY it is easy to gain the perception that they run their offense faster than we do. I look at that and say they make the defense commit faster than we do. That is all. JT plays this offense to his strengths and CPJ is fine with that. If JT rolls an ankle tomorrow and MJ goes in, immediately our offense will look fast again, because we will run midline and MJ will get going to the north way faster in the triple. JT is doing what he does best. Heck, I doubt NAVY has a single player as "fast" as JT. He is just looking to find space, so he slow plays the TO in the second phase. It has its ups and downs. Having said all this, I do think it would be cool to have MJ run a series or two each game as a change up to what we normally do. It would be tough for defenses to adjust to. Hopefully we will get our hands on the ball more than 6 times and having MJ run a couple series won't represent 40% of our snaps.

As to someody else's question about why doesn't JT run midline, well it is a bunch of factors. Heck, it was the play that saved our bacon against BC in Ireland on that last drive and JT was QBing at that point. If you run midline, you are going to get pounded. That is the bottom line. How often do you see JT run between the tackles ever? On a bad TO play, he will eat the ball and curl up in fetal position out in the pitch lane having forced the defenders to chase him out there. It is safer getting tackled that way. Nesbitt and Tevin ran the midline like champs. We will again, but it won't be while JT is taking snaps.
 
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dressedcheeseside

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And if you gave JT the cast of 2009, we probably have similar level of success as well. I think JT passes(no pun intended) the eye test for passing the ball better than JN and last year's abysmal season overall hurts his stats, but there's also no denying JT lacks JN's ability to get consistent yardage in the short running game which is a big plus for this offense.

I think Washington is the worst of the bunch, but he was still a fairly consistent Option QB. He never had an 09 or 14 season where he had legit playmakers with him, so who knows. I'm sure if Washington had Bey-Bey(or Smelter) to sling it to and Dwyer (or Laskey/Days) to hand it off to, he'd probably have lead us to an OB like Nesbitt and Thomas did, too.
Washington had by far the weakest supporting cast and had one of, if not the most productive offenses in the CPJ era, 2011. I'd have a hard time calling him the worst of the bunch.
 

stpetewreck

Georgia Tech Fan
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my point is, in our system, no one looks sexy with comp %. And I venture to guess all three look better in a QB friendly system...Josh is not that far off from the other two...its all about the same to me...

I totally agree with your points, but I just want to say that 1989 Hawaii's QB Garrett Gabriel completion rate of 57.4% (yeah, not quite in 60s) definitely looked sexy that year. And with 249 attempts that season, they were chucking it around under Paul Johnson's system. And also, they weren't often throwing easy swing passes to the flats and tunnel screens -- though I know there's tunnel screens in his book.
 

stpetewreck

Georgia Tech Fan
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Explain this to me. Why can't we run midline with JT?

This has already been answered, and I agree with what everyone has already said. I'll add that yes, we've been successful with it with JT already. But we've also seen quite a few times with JT is stopped cold with basically one big ugly getting a single hand on him. JT is not going to put his helmet down and muscle up between the tackles for a consistent 4-7 yards. But he has already juked some kids outta their shoes on a midline (more likely a called QB follow meant to play out like a midline with no real read).

And since it's the not best play to be runnin with JT, we suffer from a lack of reps. Obviously everyone has to block well, but the A backs have an important part, too. I'd guess with the lack of reps they get right now at a midline, they wouldn't light the world on fire shimmying (is that a word?) up between the tackles and cutting the right people down at the right angles.
 

stpetewreck

Georgia Tech Fan
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I've only watched the first series of the Navy - Memphis game, and I already feel comfortable saying to the people that believe Navy is running our offense faster:

You may very well be comparing two completely different plays. Navy is running a ton (in the 1st series against Memphis, and I assume the whole game..Not there yet) of Midline Triple options plays....and regardless of personnel it ALMOST ALWAYS hits faster/develops much faster that the Veer or "regular" triple option. The midline triple is in the Vine that longest day posted above.

If you want to see us run that play, and see us run "our option faster", look no further than the 2014 (I'm pretty sure) spring game. Also the 2015 Miami game very well might be about the same. In the 2014 spring game (if I'm thinking of the correct one), JT kinds tweaked his ankle on a long run to the end zone and sat the rest of the game, after like 1 series I believe. So Tim Byerly plays the WHOLE spring game at QB. We ran a ton of midline (we'd NEVER do that with JT in a SPRING GAME), and a ton of midline triple options plays. Not only does it generally hit faster to the A-back on a pitch, but it's two plays where you can feel like the QB isn't spectacular, and then go look at the stat sheets (just like that spring game) and notice the QB accumulated (again, like Tim Bylery did in that spring game) 125 yards on the ground with very few long, long runs throughout the entirety of the game.
 

Tempest_12

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As far as Navy being better/quicker with the option: Grass is always greener on the other side. Also take into account the level of competition they're playing against.

Also not sure why you guys are again idolizing the back-up QB. Everyone did that when Vad Lee was here. How did that work out? I wonder how many games into the Mathew Jordan era before his back-up is the new savior.
 

Longestday

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I watched on slow motion and Memphis did not have a good scheme or had to play a scheme thier players could play. The MLB was washed out of most plays and had very little jamming of tackles. The Navy QB forced the pitch very well. Our O would have killed them, but thier O would have given our D a run for thier Money.

Our opponents are trying to make JT keep the ball as opposed to 14. This is because we cannot get to the MLB consistently. The OLB is splitting the pitch. If JT attacks the OLB, the pitch has good run lanes as the MLB is taking JT. If JT decides to run he should go ahead and expect contact and be ok with that decision. Don't take a keep read and be surprise by a defender. The lack of contact in practice may be contributing.

Power options are good for when we cannot get the MLB. Go ahead and let the tackle or guard take the DE and let the BB take the MLB.

Please save the counter option for the second half against Duke. Duke is too good at reading when fresh reading the guards and the blitzes may kill it before it starts.
 

jandrews

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Tech is averaging 5.9 ypp while navy is at 6.3 ypp. SOS tech is 38 while navy is 66. I'd be willing to bet tech would be higher than 6.3 ypp with navy's schedule. I didn't look back st the whole schedule but navy didn't defeat themselves when they played Houston. 1 penalty for 5 yds and zero turnovers. I would love for tech to play some clean games like that.
 
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