Name and Likeness Law Signed by Kemp

[forensicbuzz]

Yeah, my point in the too-long post above is that SA's can get a job as long as it is pay that is reasonable for the work. I can't understand why we need special laws allowing that work to be selling their image or likeness, nor why their name on a product makes it a violation of NCAA rules. As long as the compensation is commiserate with the work/product, then it should be okay. So, for Trevor, he should have been able to sell his likeness as long as it wasn't in a Clemson jersey. Some car dealer could have been able to put up on a sign saying "Trevor Likes My Cars!", right? No picture, just the name "Trevor" would be enough in the Uplands and the Low Country. As long as the pay is within reason for someone with his national exposure, I don't see how that is a violation of his amateur status. Now...when he does it as a player then it is a different situation.

Let's take the hypothetical and say that Jamie Foxx's kid (no idea if he has one) is a great basketball player and wants to play for Tech. We recruit him and (as part of one of his dad's connections) he is on an advertisement for toothpaste. Should he not be able to sell his likeness suddenly when he signs an athletic scholarship? That'd be weird, and the NCAA would lose that lawsuit I suspect. So why just JF's kid? As long as they are using their NIL as a player than I really fail to see how NCAA amateur rules apply. Any lawyers want to educamate me? What are the rules for amateur status..what things can you do and what things can't you do?

Go look at how the NCAA handled the kid out in Arisona (I think he was a swimmer or baseball player or some other non-revenue generating sport). He modeled on the side and there was a big blow up about the money he earned and his amateur status. Probably 15 years ago now.

 

[GTpdm]

Go look at how the NCAA handled the kid out in Arisona (I think he was a swimmer or baseball player or some other non-revenue generating sport). He modeled on the side and there was a big blow up about the money he earned and his amateur status. Probably 15 years ago now.

Sorry. Don’t have the time to look it up. Which school on the East Coast got the death penalty for that?

 

[GT_EE78]

I get that just pointing out that the concern he seemed to have about schools paying athletes will still not be allowed under any of the NIL laws that have been passed or proposed.

Schools paying the SA isn't really part of NIL (if my understanding is correct) but can be included in the same legislation. California is allowing colleges to pay up to 6K annually beyond the benefits currently allowed.
Media calls them NIL laws but that's not entirely accurate. Ga's law doesn't include this but i haven't seen details for any other states.
Do you have a source that describes what's in the other 20 or so state laws?

 

[Lee]

The truth is that everyone involved in this affair knows pretty much what they signed up for, and it's a cooperative attempt to take advantage of American love for sports to get what they (parents, kids, schools, networks) can out of it. In 99+% of cases the SAs were THRILLED to get the free-ride to school in exchange for playing a sport representing the school. Another kid would be more than happy to take that free ride, and for 95% of athletes the drop-off in performance likely wouldn't be all-that great (bell-curves are awesome that way.) I would have been more than thrilled, personally, to exchange a 20 hour a week (on average) job for _complete_ free ride to school. So to discount that really, really weakens the argument of those who are baffled by those who oppose the NIL question.

First bolded part: If this is the case, why do schools spend millions of dollars recruiting these kids and services like Rivals and 247 exist? This could not be further from the truth. I'd say maybe 25-30% of SA's are simply THRILLED to get a "free-ride" for playing a sport. I don't follow recruiting closely, but my guess is between what is labeled a high 3 star up to 5 star includes a very large number of players every year. My guess is close to 1,000. Maybe the last quarter at most are just TRHILLED to get a scholly.

Second bolded part: This is false too. Take away the top half of those SA's mentioned above and you're talking about the difference between Bama, OSU, or Texas talent and Duke, GT, and BC talent. I'd add probaly even half of our roster now isn't simply THRILLED to have a scholly. The drop-off from those guys (Sims, Gibbs, Williams, Swilling...etc) to their predecessors is steep (except for maybe Gibbs).


This also completely overlooks sports like baseball that only have 12.5 scholarships (when I was there) for a team of 30. We've had some pretty special players come through on the baseball side. I personally played with at least 8 guys over my 3 years that played in the big leagues. Many more than that who were all-ACC or all-American. It would've been nice if it was possible to get some extra cash.

Shoot, my last year at GT they made an NCAA baseball game. I'm not going to lie, it was pretty sweet to play a game and actually play with yourself on a video game. Would've been cooler if they paid to use our name and likeness. I'm not sure about other leagues, but I know in the MLB players get checks every Spring Training for things like that (video games, commercials...etc).

Everyone obviously has a right to their own opinion, I just don't understand why anyone would want to side with the NCAA and the schools in preventing players from making some of the money they are already raking in.

 

[ncjacket79]

Schools paying the SA isn't really part of NIL (if my understanding is correct) but can be included in the same legislation. California is allowing colleges to pay up to 6K annually beyond the benefits currently allowed.
Media calls them NIL laws but that's not entirely accurate. Ga's law doesn't include this but i haven't seen details for any other states.
Do you have a source that describes what's in the other 20 or so state laws?

No haven’t seen them all but I have looked through a few and haven’t seen schools paying athletes included.

 

[85Escape]

First bolded part: If this is the case, why do schools spend millions of dollars recruiting these kids and services like Rivals and 247 exist? This could not be further from the truth. I'd say maybe 25-30% of SA's are simply THRILLED to get a "free-ride" for playing a sport. I don't follow recruiting closely, but my guess is between what is labeled a high 3 star up to 5 star includes a very large number of players every year. My guess is close to 1,000. Maybe the last quarter at most are just TRHILLED to get a scholly.

Second bolded part: This is false too. Take away the top half of those SA's mentioned above and you're talking about the difference between Bama, OSU, or Texas talent and Duke, GT, and BC talent. I'd add probaly even half of our roster now isn't simply THRILLED to have a scholly. The drop-off from those guys (Sims, Gibbs, Williams, Swilling...etc) to their predecessors is steep (except for maybe Gibbs).


This also completely overlooks sports like baseball that only have 12.5 scholarships (when I was there) for a team of 30. We've had some pretty special players come through on the baseball side. I personally played with at least 8 guys over my 3 years that played in the big leagues. Many more than that who were all-ACC or all-American. It would've been nice if it was possible to get some extra cash.

Shoot, my last year at GT they made an NCAA baseball game. I'm not going to lie, it was pretty sweet to play a game and actually play with yourself on a video game. Would've been cooler if they paid to use our name and likeness. I'm not sure about other leagues, but I know in the MLB players get checks every Spring Training for things like that (video games, commercials...etc).

Everyone obviously has a right to their own opinion, I just don't understand why anyone would want to side with the NCAA and the schools in preventing players from making some of the money they are already raking in.

Well, you know better than I. And you must have come from a wealthier family as well. My nephew, who got a full-ride scholly offer to UGA to pitch, was 'simply thrilled' to get the offer, but I guess if your parent(s) don't need the help you could be more discerning. Of course, he didn't take the offer to play amateur ball because he was good enough to get the 1st round draft pick and $1MM+ signing bonus. I guess he shouldn't have been thrilled to get the full ride offer and keep his family out of debt. Silly man.

 

[Lee]

Well, you know better than I. And you must have come from a wealthier family as well. My nephew, who got a full-ride scholly offer to UGA to pitch, was 'simply thrilled' to get the offer, but I guess if your parent(s) don't need the help you could be more discerning. Of course, he didn't take the offer to play amateur ball because he was good enough to get the 1st round draft pick and $1MM+ signing bonus. I guess he shouldn't have been thrilled to get the full ride offer and keep his family out of debt. Silly man.

See you’re conflating things now. If you read above you would’ve seen that I said baseball has 12.5 schollies for 30 players. There are maybe 1-2 guys on any team that get a full ride offer in baseball. So anyone who gets that offer is thrilled I’m sure. Those same people though are like the kid you mentioned though and typically 1st round draft picks.

If the kid you mentioned was so thrilled though, why did he take the money? Because he was smart and that was a much better offer than the THRILL of a free college education (which would be included in his signing bonus).

I came from a lower middle class family and only got 25%. I had to keep HOPE to have everything paid for. I was thrilled to get anything from GT, but I grew up a fan and it was my dream school.

Lastly, the thrilled convo had nothing to do with baseball. It was solely about football. Again, who is more thrilled to sign a big recruit, the school/fans or the player? Pretty easy, watch signing day footage. Most of the top 500 or so players (if not more) have many free ride offers and schools spend millions of dollars chasing these kids around the country and rolling out the red carpet for them.

Shoot I loved hosting recruits even just in baseball. It was the best I ate when in college. Eat at the Palm or Ruth Chris on your visit. Then you show up and go on a road trip and we’re eating at Golden Coral. Little different once you sign the dotted line and you’ve got your “free ride.”

The whole point is that you acted like if the ones who weren’t simply THRILLED to have a free ride went away the drop off wouldn’t be noticeable. That’s silly man.

The best players care very little about the free ride. They care about preparing to play at the next level. The free education is a nice cherry on top, but that’s it for most. Sorry fo that doesn’t fit the narrative you or others want to believe SA’s think about, but it’s true.

Don’t take it as some don’t value getting a good education. They do. I did. But it’s still not the most important thing. It’s a nice to have and good if it doesn’t work out (which for most it doesn’t). But I can promise you anyone who could potentially make it isn’t thinking about not making it at 18-21 years old.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

They don't need to "cough up a ton of money". A little bit of money can be a lot of money to a college kid.

Take a look at the comment this was a reply to for the context...

 

[forensicbuzz]

See you’re conflating things now. If you read above you would’ve seen that I said baseball has 12.5 schollies for 30 players. There are maybe 1-2 guys on any team that get a full ride offer in baseball. So anyone who gets that offer is thrilled I’m sure. Those same people though are like the kid you mentioned though and typically 1st round draft picks.

If the kid you mentioned was so thrilled though, why did he take the money? Because he was smart and that was a much better offer than the THRILL of a free college education (which would be included in his signing bonus).

I came from a lower middle class family and only got 25%. I had to keep HOPE to have everything paid for. I was thrilled to get anything from GT, but I grew up a fan and it was my dream school.

Lastly, the thrilled convo had nothing to do with baseball. It was solely about football. Again, who is more thrilled to sign a big recruit, the school/fans or the player? Pretty easy, watch signing day footage. Most of the top 500 or so players (if not more) have many free ride offers and schools spend millions of dollars chasing these kids around the country and rolling out the red carpet for them.

Shoot I loved hosting recruits even just in baseball. It was the best I ate when in college. Eat at the Palm or Ruth Chris on your visit. Then you show up and go on a road trip and we’re eating at Golden Coral. Little different once you sign the dotted line and you’ve got your “free ride.”

The whole point is that you acted like if the ones who weren’t simply THRILLED to have a free ride went away the drop off wouldn’t be noticeable. That’s silly man.

The best players care very little about the free ride. They care about preparing to play at the next level. The free education is a nice cherry on top, but that’s it for most. Sorry fo that doesn’t fit the narrative you or others want to believe SA’s think about, but it’s true.

Don’t take it as some don’t value getting a good education. They do. I did. But it’s still not the most important thing. It’s a nice to have and good if it doesn’t work out (which for most it doesn’t). But I can promise you anyone who could potentially make it isn’t thinking about not making it at 18-21 years old.

I understand your position, but this whole conversation is primarily focused on basketball and football, as those two sports are going to be impacted the most. Granted, this opens opportunities for other athletes, but that's not the focus. We're discussing those who have 100% scholarships, including cost of attendance stipends.

I think the thought is that the athletes are grateful to get a full scholarship and not have to pay for school in general. They'll be a scholar-athlete somewhere, and without that scholarship, they probably wouldn't have the same opportunity to attend college, period. Most of these scholar-athletes are leveraging their physical abilities for someone else paying for their education. There is tremendous value to that.

I think there will be a very small percentage of student-athletes that will significantly benefit from the NIL proposition, but because it is in place, unscrupulous programs (which is most, if not all of them) will leverage this to provide themselves with an unfair competitive advantage. That is in direct contradiction to what the NCAA is supposed to be about.

 

[Lee]

I understand your position, but this whole conversation is primarily focused on basketball and football, as those two sports are going to be impacted the most. Granted, this opens opportunities for other athletes, but that's not the focus. We're discussing those who have 100% scholarships, including cost of attendance stipends.

I think the thought is that the athletes are grateful to get a full scholarship and not have to pay for school in general. They'll be a scholar-athlete somewhere, and without that scholarship, they probably wouldn't have the same opportunity to attend college, period. Most of these scholar-athletes are leveraging their physical abilities for someone else paying for their education. There is tremendous value to that.

I think there will be a very small percentage of student-athletes that will significantly benefit from the NIL proposition, but because it is in place, unscrupulous programs (which is most, if not all of them) will leverage this to provide themselves with an unfair competitive advantage. That is in direct contradiction to what the NCAA is supposed to be about.

I agree it’s mainly for football and basketball.

I also agree it’s most likely the only chance many of these kids would have at attending the school the do go to. Shoot there is no way I would’ve even been considered by GT if I didn’t throw a baseball pretty hard. I have no problem admitting that either.

Where I think differently than you is that I already think the “unscrupulous programs” are already doing unscrupulous things to gain advantage over the schools that won’t or can’t to the extent they do already. I don’t see how this helps those programs.

I think it actually gives schools like GT in a major city an advantage over those schools.

I think we can all agree that the NCAA is a joke and as corrupt as the US govt (well maybe not that bad).

I just think most of these guys have one chance to use their ability on the field to benefit themselves and their families and they should be able to do so.

I think of a guy like Justin Thomas or Joe Hamilton. They were never going to be NFL qb’s (Joe had a small chance) but were superstars on campus. The school sold no shortage of #14 and #5 jerseys during their time. I think those guys should be able to get a small piece of that. Everyone knows why those numbers were picked. Same for guys like Nesbitt.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Where I think differently than you is that I already think the “unscrupulous programs” are already doing unscrupulous things to gain advantage over the schools that won’t or can’t to the extent they do already. I don’t see how this helps those programs.

"Billy" the uga bag man and mega donor has been funneling between $250-300k per year in order to pay top tier athletes to keep them playing for uga. Now he can simply sign them to NIL agreements with his car dealership in order to pay them aboveboard. No more worries about getting caught and NCAA probations...

With broader fan bases, factories will tend to have more individual businesses willing to "sponsor" an athlete to play at their favorite university.

I think it actually gives schools like GT in a major city an advantage over those schools.

The problem we have is that there are probably 4x-5x more uga fans in the ATL market than Tech fans.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I agree it’s mainly for football and basketball.

I also agree it’s most likely the only chance many of these kids would have at attending the school the do go to. Shoot there is no way I would’ve even been considered by GT if I didn’t throw a baseball pretty hard. I have no problem admitting that either.

Where I think differently than you is that I already think the “unscrupulous programs” are already doing unscrupulous things to gain advantage over the schools that won’t or can’t to the extent they do already. I don’t see how this helps those programs.

I think it actually gives schools like GT in a major city an advantage over those schools.

I think we can all agree that the NCAA is a joke and as corrupt as the US govt (well maybe not that bad).

I just think most of these guys have one chance to use their ability on the field to benefit themselves and their families and they should be able to do so.

I think of a guy like Justin Thomas or Joe Hamilton. They were never going to be NFL qb’s (Joe had a small chance) but were superstars on campus. The school sold no shortage of #14 and #5 jerseys during their time. I think those guys should be able to get a small piece of that. Everyone knows why those numbers were picked. Same for guys like Nesbitt.

FYI.I have a 14 and a 5 jersey, why...because at the time those were sold if you wanted a white jersey that was all you could get. For the same year at number 5, if you wanted a gold jersey it only came with 15, Smelter. Only in 2009 you could get 21 in gold, but white had to be number 1. The Blue jersey was 9. I didn't buy these for the numbers but I wanted the colors

 

[Lee]

"Billy" the uga bag man and mega donor has been funneling between $250-300k per year in order to pay top tier athletes to keep them playing for uga. Now he can simply sign them to NIL agreements with his car dealership in order to pay them aboveboard. No more worries about getting caught and NCAA probations...

With broader fan bases, factories will tend to have more individual businesses willing to "sponsor" an athlete to play at their favorite university.



The problem we have is that there are probably 4x-5x more uga fans in the ATL market than Tech fans.

If you trust the NCAA to crack down on the likes of UGA, Clemson or Bama, good for you. They won’t. Everyone knows they are throwing money at kids. Heck a Clemson coach admitted it I’m pretty sure and nothing happens.

Same NCAA that took away our ACC championship for Baybay getting ~$300 in clothing from his cousin or something who happened to be an agent yet did nothing to UNC for cheating their basketball players through school. There will always be an imbalance. Now we can at least try to compete


I do agree there are a bunch of Ugag fans in ATL, but Collins is a master at marketing and I trust he will leverage this to our advantage.

Look at what just happened with Jamie Foxx. He isn’t going to Athens to work out.

There are also many big time RE folks from GT that are doing a lot of work in ATL. My guess is they wouldn’t mind shelling out some cash to help the players and program. Especially if they can right it off as a business expense.

 

[Lee]

FYI.I have a 14 and a 5 jersey, why...because at the time those were sold if you wanted a white jersey that was all you could get. For the same year at number 5, if you wanted a gold jersey it only came with 15, Smelter. Only in 2009 you could get 21 in gold, but white had to be number 1. The Blue jersey was 9. I didn't buy these for the numbers but I wanted the colors

Not sure if we are in agreement and you were trying to prove my point or not, but you did.

Why #1? Morgan Burnett
Why #9? Josh Nesbitt
Why #21? Jonathan Dwyer

Why didn’t they have a number 43 or 67? Because they wouldn’t sell as many. People want to buy jerseys of their favorite player (most of the time).

Why shouldn’t said player be compensated in some way for their jersey being sold?

 

[forensicbuzz]

I agree it’s mainly for football and basketball.

I also agree it’s most likely the only chance many of these kids would have at attending the school the do go to. Shoot there is no way I would’ve even been considered by GT if I didn’t throw a baseball pretty hard. I have no problem admitting that either.

Where I think differently than you is that I already think the “unscrupulous programs” are already doing unscrupulous things to gain advantage over the schools that won’t or can’t to the extent they do already. I don’t see how this helps those programs.

I think it actually gives schools like GT in a major city an advantage over those schools.

I think we can all agree that the NCAA is a joke and as corrupt as the US govt (well maybe not that bad).

I just think most of these guys have one chance to use their ability on the field to benefit themselves and their families and they should be able to do so.

I think of a guy like Justin Thomas or Joe Hamilton. They were never going to be NFL qb’s (Joe had a small chance) but were superstars on campus. The school sold no shortage of #14 and #5 jerseys during their time. I think those guys should be able to get a small piece of that. Everyone knows why those numbers were picked. Same for guys like Nesbitt.

To your point, for NIL, I agree that while they're on campus, if GT is selling their numbers, they should get a cut. Beyond that, I'm not sure. Slippery slope.

 

[forensicbuzz]

If you trust the NCAA to crack down on the likes of UGA, Clemson or Bama, good for you. They won’t. Everyone knows they are throwing money at kids. Heck a Clemson coach admitted it I’m pretty sure and nothing happens.

Same NCAA that took away our ACC championship for Baybay getting ~$300 in clothing from his cousin or something who happened to be an agent yet did nothing to UNC for cheating their basketball players through school. There will always be an imbalance. Now we can at least try to compete


I do agree there are a bunch of Ugag fans in ATL, but Collins is a master at marketing and I trust he will leverage this to our advantage.

Look at what just happened with Jamie Foxx. He isn’t going to Athens to work out.

There are also many big time RE folks from GT that are doing a lot of work in ATL. My guess is they wouldn’t mind shelling out some cash to help the players and program. Especially if they can right it off as a business expense.

Everyone keeps saying this, but it isn't true. We go slammed because Radikovich told Johnson that the investigation was happening after the NCAA told him not to tell Johnson. Johnson told BeBe and Morgan Burnette. We lost the ACC Championship because we played BeBe instead of holding him out, even though he paid the value of the clothing back. The whole thing was because the NCAA didn't think we were cooperating with the investigation. Total BS, but people always quote this incorrectly.

It's just like flunkgate. That had everything to do with changing from a quarter system to a semester system and the damn NCAA compliance people being asshats and our compliance people being incompetent.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Not sure if we are in agreement and you were trying to prove my point or not, but you did.

Why #1? Morgan Burnett
Why #9? Josh Nesbitt
Why #21? Jonathan Dwyer

Why didn’t they have a number 43 or 67? Because they wouldn’t sell as many. People want to buy jerseys of their favorite player (most of the time).

Why shouldn’t said player be compensated in some way for their jersey being sold?

I thought #1 was Reggie Ball!

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

If you trust the NCAA to crack down on the likes of UGA, Clemson or Bama, good for you. They won’t. Everyone knows they are throwing money at kids. Heck a Clemson coach admitted it I’m pretty sure and nothing happens.

I said nothing about the NCAA cracking down on factories. I said it removes the need to be "shady" and even risk it anymore.

Same NCAA that took away our ACC championship for Baybay getting ~$300 in clothing from his cousin or something who happened to be an agent yet did nothing to UNC for cheating their basketball players through school. There will always be an imbalance. Now we can at least try to compete

Not sure the new NIL law addresses either of these issues.

I do agree there are a bunch of Ugag fans in ATL, but Collins is a master at marketing and I trust he will leverage this to our advantage.

I am a Collins supporter, but if he can make ATL a predominantly GT town then I will be truly amazed. Even if he TRIPLES our local fanbase we will be vastly outnumbered by uga fans, not to mention the other SEC fans in the area...

Look at what just happened with Jamie Foxx. He isn’t going to Athens to work out.

Why would he go to Athens to work out? The studio he's filming at is in ATL. A GT athlete made the connection for him. That's awesome, but if it changed the opinion of one adult here in the area in regards to which football team they will support I'd be shocked.

There are also many big time RE folks from GT that are doing a lot of work in ATL. My guess is they wouldn’t mind shelling out some cash to help the players and program. Especially if they can right it off as a business expense.

Not denying that we won't have some supporters. The issue is that number is decidedly smaller than the factories, se we start behind the eight ball to begin with.

All this said, I have no problem with players being able to negotiate for themselves. I just think it's incredibly naïve to think that this new law is all of a sudden going to bring some semblance of parity to college football. The factories will find ways to exploit it for their benefit. The rich will continue to get richer. The divide between tier one and tier two will grow wider. I'd love to be wrong, but without drastic and meaningful change to the rules, nothing is going to stop it. We now live in an era where most teams are happy to take the cash for being the bigger teams cupcakes. Half of the P5 are basically conference affiliated cupcakes for the factories. Here's hoping we can stay in the upper half of the P5.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Not sure if we are in agreement and you were trying to prove my point or not, but you did.

Why #1? Morgan Burnett
Why #9? Josh Nesbitt
Why #21? Jonathan Dwyer

Why didn’t they have a number 43 or 67? Because they wouldn’t sell as many. People want to buy jerseys of their favorite player (most of the time).

Why shouldn’t said player be compensated in some way for their jersey being sold?

Not really making your point, If the Blue jersey was number 99 I would have bought it. 9 was the only number in that color. I see your point but I am just saying for some fans like me..... Now go find me a 1976 jersey number 40....yea I would buy that for the number.

 

[Lee]

I thought #1 was Reggie Ball!

Haha was when I was at GT. Not in 09 though.