Mutts

[yeti92]

dwag WR arrested last night for family violence and false imprisonment as well

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[MonroeJacket]

dwag WR arrested last night for family violence and false imprisonment as well

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Looks like things are lining up nicely for another championship season!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The player killed was only 20. And there are almost definitely policies that exist that staffers are not to have relationships with players or recruits.

I know times change but when I was working in a college there were some pretty strict rules about staff and students fraternizing. Similar to some businesses that don’t like coworkers in the same department getting romantically involved.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I know times change but when I was working in a college there were some pretty strict rules about staff and students fraternizing. Similar to some businesses that don’t like coworkers in the same department getting romantically involved.

I'm pretty sure it depends on the jobs and the roles. I worked on campus too. Not a point to argue about because we don't know the details of their relationships except they were all in the same car.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I'm pretty sure it depends on the jobs and the roles. I worked on campus too. Not a point to argue about because we don't know the details of their relationships except they were all in the same car.

Absolutely not a point to argue except that the original point was that it was a bad look. Maybe a perfectly good explanation for a staff member to be escorting a student after 2 AM in off campus activities but till then the look is bad.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Absolutely not a point to argue except that the original point was that it was a bad look. Maybe a perfectly good explanation for a staff member to be escorting a student after 2 AM in off campus activities but till then the look is bad.

2 students. And they are grown adults, not kids. They, all 4, are contemporaries. It’s not like they’re coaches or in a position of authority. Regardless, there’s proof of nothing more than friendship.

Only a bad look to people with dirty minds or prudes.

Just kidding about the last part…kind of.

 

[kg01]

Why are people always so flummoxed when an issue like this comes up?

Them being "2 adults" doesn't necessarily mean their interaction was "appropriate" when the workplace comes into play.

All this boils down to is it's a tragedy for their families and a bad/not great look for that program.

 

[TooTall]

2 students. And they are grown adults, not kids. They, all 4, are contemporaries. It’s not like they’re coaches or in a position of authority. Regardless, there’s proof of nothing more than friendship.

Only a bad look to people with dirty minds or prudes.

Just kidding about the last part…kind of.

Just because a rule is stupid to you and/or others, doesn't diminish the rule. I coached college basketball and was told (when introduced to an incoming transfer student by another coach) that if I was to date a student (her), the relationship had to begin before school began (I was 23 she was 20). Dumb rule right? But that school, like uga and many other universities, had a rule prohibiting an employee dating a student, with some caveats. Rules like that are there because it causes more issues when employees are in relationships with students than if they weren't. Authority over them or not.

The group closed down the strip club and was in a wreck less than 10 minutes later. When the death of a student is caused by an employee, as a driver you're responsible for all the lives in your vehicle, it becomes an "under the microscope" issue. Everything deserves to be questioned. Answers are needed. Rules are established because someone screwed it up for everyone else previously. There will be rules put in place that will hopefully prevent senseless tragedies like this from happening again.

But people will ignore it and think it won't happen to them. But remember, you're someone else to someone else.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Just because a rule is stupid to you and/or others, doesn't diminish the rule. I coached college basketball and was told (when introduced to an incoming transfer student by another coach) that if I was to date a student (her), the relationship had to begin before school began (I was 23 she was 20). Dumb rule right? But that school, like uga and many other universities, had a rule prohibiting an employee dating a student, with some caveats. Rules like that are there because it causes more issues when employees are in relationships with students than if they weren't. Authority over them or not.

The group closed down the strip club and was in a wreck less than 10 minutes later. When the death of a student is caused by an employee, as a driver you're responsible for all the lives in your vehicle, it becomes an "under the microscope" issue. Everything deserves to be questioned. Answers are needed. Rules are established because someone screwed it up for everyone else previously. There will be rules put in place that will hopefully prevent senseless tragedies like this from happening again.

But people will ignore it and think it won't happen to them. But remember, you're someone else to someone else.

I never said a rule was stupid. Being a coach is not the same as being a staffer. Do you know there's a rule preventing dating between a student and a staffer? Do you know what staffers do, anyway? Beyond that, do you know they were doing anything other than being out together as friends? Please tell me what rule would prevent this senseless tragedy. If she wasn't a staffer and was another co-ed, would it have been any less senseless or any less of a tragedy?

Again, anyone who focuses on this being two players and two female staffers is shifting the focus from a tragic accident to creating a situation where they want to blame someone. Ooh-Aaah, can you believe they did that? Great for gossip-mongers.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Do you know there's a rule preventing dating between a student and a staffer?

Yes. It was mentioned in the AJC article.

"If Bowles and LeCroy were not on duty, their socializing with players suggests a possible violation of university rules. In a policy manual for student-athletes, the UGA Athletic Association says coaches and staff members are responsible for avoiding “prohibited consensual relationships” with athletes. This includes behavior that might be deemed “inappropriate,” the document says. The policy does not list all possible examples of inappropriate conduct. However, employees may be fired for violations, the document says."

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yes. It was mentioned in the AJC article.

"If Bowles and LeCroy were not on duty, their socializing with players suggests a possible violation of university rules. In a policy manual for student-athletes, the UGA Athletic Association says coaches and staff members are responsible for avoiding “prohibited consensual relationships” with athletes. This includes behavior that might be deemed “inappropriate,” the document says. The policy does not list all possible examples of inappropriate conduct. However, employees may be fired for violations, the document says."

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still not sure there was any "prohibited consensual relationship" involved. Friends are not necessarily involved in a prohibited nature. I think people want to think the worst, so they do.

I do not deem hanging out as friends or going out as friends as being inappropriate. It would be with a coach, but not necessarily as a staff member, especially a staff member essentially the same age as the students. This, obviously, is just my opinion.

Either way, two young people losing their live is tragic and shouldn't be speculated about.

 

[TooTall]

I never went to a strip club with a female who was just a "friend".
But since you still have yet to read the article posted in thread, the ajc app is free if its behind a pay wall, there's no sense in continuing this.

A young man lost his life due to negligence by a university employee who also lost her life.

 

[slugboy]

I read the article. It does feel ghoulish to have this article so close after two people died.

I hate to be “that guy”, but I’m surprised to see two attractive women in their early 20’s with “Recruiting Analyst” positions—if I looked in the staff directory without photos, I’d assume that position was a grad assistant who used to play football, breaking down film and rating recruits from around the country. It’s possible that’s what they do, but they also seem to be pretty young ladies who drive recruits around campus in big black rental SUVs. Those SUVs are only supposed to be used on official business, and that’s the SUV that got wrecked.

About 5 years ago, Darryl LaBarrie got fired as a GT basketball coach for taking a recruit to a strip club. Here, you have two staffers using an official vehicle to take players to a strip club where it looks like they got drinks. Even without the SUV, a lawyer could make it stick that two employees taking players to a strip club is official business, just because they’re employees. Using the official car of the athletic department makes it more so.

This isn’t just true for an athletic department—if a couple of employees of any of our businesses took clients out in a company car, lawyers could come after the company—especially if the employees met during work and went from there. It would be considered an official work activity, even if the drinks were on personal cards.

Having gone through years and years of mandatory HR anti-harassment training, the recruiting analysts going out for drinks with athletes would be a minefield. In this case, a star player is going to have so much leverage over whether one of these analysts can keep their job.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still not sure there was any "prohibited consensual relationship" involved. Friends are not necessarily involved in a prohibited nature. I think people want to think the worst, so they do.

I do not deem hanging out as friends or going out as friends as being inappropriate. It would be with a coach, but not necessarily as a staff member, especially a staff member essentially the same age as the students. This, obviously, is just my opinion.

Either way, two young people losing their live is tragic and shouldn't be speculated about.

The AJC is investigating as it should. There are legitimate questions about why they were out in a uga provided rental car, at a strip club, and if the relationship that caused them to be there together was appropriate or not. Those rental cars are supposed to be for transporting recruits around Athens and there were recruits on campus that weekend. Were recruits at the club and was uga paying for it?

The loss of life is tragic, and speculation does no one any favors, but the AJC is well with in their bounds and their duty to duly investigate the facts of the matter.

 

[techfan#14]

Here is all I have to say. This is tragic no matter the circumstances but imagine if it was your child and you got the call that morning... you find out that your son is dead after a university employee/staffer whatever title you want to give, was driving the vehicle and in charge of your kids life. It would make me feel a certain way.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Here is all I have to say. This is tragic no matter the circumstances but imagine if it was your child and you got the call that morning... you find out that your son is dead after a university employee/staffer whatever title you want to give, was driving the vehicle and in charge of your kids life. It would make me feel a certain way.

Exactly this.

Much I could say about this from family experience but I don’t care to go into it.

Those who think this is about salacious details, or having dirty minds, have completely misunderstood what the concern is and what we mean by “not a good look.”

Tragedy related to lack of institutional controls, ignoring fiduciary responsibilities, or undisciplined staff, compounds the pain for parents because they will forever wonder if they let their child down by sending them to program that was carelessly run while thinking they were in good hands.

 

[kg01]

I read the article. It does feel ghoulish to have this article so close after two people died.

I hate to be “that guy”, but I’m surprised to see two attractive women in their early 20’s with “Recruiting Analyst” positions—if I looked in the staff directory without photos, I’d assume that position was a grad assistant who used to play football, breaking down film and rating recruits from around the country. It’s possible that’s what they do, but they also seem to be pretty young ladies who drive recruits around campus in big black rental SUVs. Those SUVs are only supposed to be used on official business, and that’s the SUV that got wrecked.

About 5 years ago, Darryl LaBarrie got fired as a GT basketball coach for taking a recruit to a strip club. Here, you have two staffers using an official vehicle to take players to a strip club where it looks like they got drinks. Even without the SUV, a lawyer could make it stick that two employees taking players to a strip club is official business, just because they’re employees. Using the official car of the athletic department makes it more so.

This isn’t just true for an athletic department—if a couple of employees of any of our businesses took clients out in a company car, lawyers could come after the company—especially if the employees met during work and went from there. It would be considered an official work activity, even if the drinks were on personal cards.

Having gone through years and years of mandatory HR anti-harassment training, the recruiting analysts going out for drinks with athletes would be a minefield. In this case, a star player is going to have so much leverage over whether one of these analysts can keep their job.

Yeah, fair or foul, this is a good representation of what the rules are on this kind of thing. People ask, 'well why does it matter, they're adults they can do whatever?'. Well, no, and this situation is kinda why you can't just do what you want.

If you're the parents, you (likely) want answers. And, if you don't like those answers, you're likely gonna seek legal remedies of some kind. And you're not suing the girl, you're suing the organization.

Thats why organizations put rules in place to protect themselves. "Our policy states x, y, z, and this person violated our policies ...... we aren't liable."

That's, in a nutshell, how corporations work w.r.t. workplace entanglements(sic).

 

[forensicbuzz]

The AJC is investigating as it should. There are legitimate questions about why they were out in a uga provided rental car, at a strip club, and if the relationship that caused them to be there together was appropriate or not. Those rental cars are supposed to be for transporting recruits around Athens and there were recruits on campus that weekend. Were recruits at the club and was uga paying for it?

The loss of life is tragic, and speculation does no one any favors, but the AJC is well with in their bounds and their duty to duly investigate the facts of the matter.

Those are legitimate questions. I'm not sure it's the AJC's job to investigate. Their job is to report. An investigation is for law enforcement, uga, and NCAA.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yeah, fair or foul, this is a good representation of what the rules are on this kind of thing. People ask, 'well why does it matter, they're adults they can do whatever?'. Well, no, and this situation is kinda why you can't just do what you want.

If you're the parents, you (likely) want answers. And, if you don't like those answers, you're likely gonna seek legal remedies of some kind. And you're not suing the girl, you're suing the organization.

Thats why organizations put rules in place to protect themselves. "Our policy states x, y, z, and this person violated our policies ...... we aren't liable."

That's, in a nutshell, how corporations work w.r.t. workplace entanglements(sic).

I agree with all of this and the post from @slugboy. As I said, law enforcement, uga, and then the NCAA will investigate. The families deserve answers. The general public does not.

Details about why they were where they were, what they were driving, etc. are relevant to whether this was appropriate or inappropriate. As details come out the perception and reality will continuously shift. Added information has changed the discussion since the initial report.

 

[kg01]

I agree with all of this and the post from @slugboy. As I said, law enforcement, uga, and then the NCAA will investigate. The families deserve answers. The general public does not.

Details about why they were where they were, what they were driving, etc. are relevant to whether this was appropriate or inappropriate. As details come out the perception and reality will continuously shift. Added information has changed the discussion since the initial report.

I think we're all basically on the same page. Hope it doesn't seem like I'm attacking you, btw. Not my intent.

Actually agree these details shouldn't be something we (as a public) should be clamoring for, but that's a broader question on our nosy a** voyeuristic society as a whole.

Had a recent death in the family. 27yo, fit, completely healthy or so we thought. Turns out they had a heart problem that no one knew of. Heart attack, sudden death completely out of nowhere.

As I try to explain to people what happened - not that it's their business but they know the person and naturally wonder why they're not around anymore - I can always see the wheels turning on questions they wanna ask. Was it drugs, alcohol, etc.? Well, it was none of that. And it actually hurts to have to sorta clear the person's name every time.

So I won't say I know what these families are going through. But I kinda get them wanting answers on that level. And I hate the fact that us nosy a**es seem to feel were owed any dayum thing at all from this investigation.