Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[jayparr]

If Collins stays and we change everyone else we won’t improve. He simply isn’t head coach material. That sequence of timeout, false start, delay, ill- timed snap is the perfect example of his coaching abilities, ie. he doesn’t have any. His team is horrible at all phases of the game. His team can’t tackle, can’t block, can’t pressure, can’t move the ball, can’t kick, can’t cover kicks. The only thing we will remember fondly from the Collins years will be Gibbs. Watching him on Sundays will be fun.

That sequence above out lines his tenure - forced to call a timeout because the coaches decision making process and relay system is slow. False start - players are not scared of making mistakes hence they are lackadaisical in the details. Delay - again, going from 3rd and 2 to 3rd and 7 caused the play to change and with slow decision making on the sideline Yates gets the play late and then hasn’t been taught to refer to the play clock often. And with the so called starter standing on the sidelines with walkons Yates was thrown to the wolves. Bad snap - again, no player is held accountable for being lackadaisical in the details. They Have been coached to be soft and with no repercussions. If that same sequence happeNed at Bama, UGA, Ohio State, or just about anywhere else, those players would have hades to pay. With us they get hugs. And then it happens again and again.

I believe the players are all getting trophies like the middle schools do!

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Realistically no one that has a better P5 choice is going to take this job. IMO the only candiates GT will have with the next hire are P5 assistants and G5 HC's. You are unlikely to get a current or former P5 HC to come to GT.

I agree with you. But I’m fine with that. I don’t want a retread P5 coach. GT is a unique D1 school. I want an up and comer who is hungry to prove himself. I want to find our Spurrier. We tried with Collins. We whiffed. And looking back we can learn from that mistake. The data was there that he wasn’t real but we ignored it. The Temple record goi g from Rhule to him was a flashing red light we ignored. Another poster listed around 10 or more coaches who are hungry yet have a true proven track record of success they created. Looking back it’s easy to see Collins simply road coat tails and then failed when those coat tails left. His record at Temple was worse than Rhule and GT has totally exposed him. It’s our fault, but we had the right idea.

 

[jgtengineer]

Same 55,000 seat stadium. That is where our team plays its home games and sells season tickets. It happened for Gailey, then Johnson, & now Collins. Also, it did not move anywhere. All 3 “eras” have the same base of tickets to sell.

If anything, Collins > Johnson > Gailey in terms of the GT fan base given the Institute’s growing enrollment level.

Same stadium different TV access and i hate to say this but it really needs to be talked about. That was 20 years ago. Alot of our older fans from that time are likely not going to games anymore.

 

[bobongo]

This is part of what I talked about before: it's not just the coordinators and head coach. It's the entire staff. The linesman coaches obviously aren't teaching the lineman how to identify what's being done to them. They can't see a blitz coming and even if they do they're clueless on how to react to it. You see it nearly every play.

If I didn't know any better, I'd swear the line coach just said "Block whoever is in front of you" and left it at that. On both sides of the ball, no less.

Brent Key looks to me to be as big a fraud as Collins. The guy's living on his reputation as a former Alabama assistant, but he hasn't shown me anything. And he's making an eye-popping $650,000 a year.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I remember that as well. It was one of Monken's conditions of accepting the offer that Army change some of their prior framework to enable better recruiting. It is part of the reason that it is interesting to think about his fit at GT (either of them, for that matter).

So as a follow-up, is it an either/or situation at Army and Navy with respect to success? It's not like they play each other 12 games a year. Why has Navy not produced better results the last 4 years? I truly don't know nor have an opinion on this.

Recruiting at a service academy is extremely difficult. Not only do the candidates have to be able to keep up academically with a full cadet AND athletics workload, they have to be able to secure an appointment from their congressman/senator to even be considered. It's a very difficult process and it takes identifying and helping along early the exact right candidates in order to get them on board. Often, a recruit is placed in the NAPS/USMAPS/USAFAPS system for a year to get their academics in line. This means they have a year where they are "redshirted" but not practicing with the team. IIRC, they have "JV" teams there for the purpose of the Academy football team pipeline.

All this to say, for the last couple of years Navy has generally struggled in two related areas: QB and OL. For the 3O, QB is even more critical than in a normal offense, and Navy's QB has not been enough of a threat to keep defenses honest. OL is where academies struggle the most, as an OL body at any normal school would disqualify most cadets from military service. It's a major reason why the 3O is the offense of choice at academies. The Navy OL has struggled, and the results are there to see.

Can Coach N fix this? Sure, but at an academy, it's rarely a quick fix. They can't process out SAs as easily as other schools, and are generally stuck with their recruits for the duration.

Just my perspective as a former Academy Cadet.

 

[gt02]

I worry that the coaches have lost the team. The GT team we saw on the field Saturday is the same one that beat UNC and fought hard to come back against UVA. Talentwise, this GT team is not terrible. But, we were down 45-0 at the half and could not score against the ND scrubs in the second half. There were some nice individual plays on both sides of the ball, so I am not berating the players. After the timely defensive stand to force a FG on ND's initial drive we gave up six TDs in the first half. Something happened that turned off the "I really care" part of this team's mentality. Folks in the GTAA need to ask why that happened.

GTs shortcomings have nothing to do with talent. The only people that think it does are the ones that have nothing better to say and instead post something dismissive about how much they know about football and how other posters know nothing. In fact, the only reason we have three wins is because we have talent and those talented players made plays. We have nine losses because our coaching is that bad.

Putting that aside, I agree that coaches seem to have lost the team and I could see how that would be a reasonable inflection point. So fair response. My two cents is that when you see the same mistakes happening week over week with no real ability to address those mistakes, it’s only a matter of time before you lose players. In any event, we are where we are and I doubt he gets fired.

 

[sgreer]

Paul Johnson is a HOF coach for what he did at Georgia Southern, Navy and GT. He took us to two Orange Bowls and multiple ACC Championship games. He gave us an advantage on gameday in most situations. He didn't recruit well and 2008 and 2009 showed what he could do with top level talent. He took us places we hadn't been in 40+ years. Overall, he was a consistent winner with two really down years, but kept us competitive and in bowls nearly every year. He's gone now.

I believe you think that everyone is making him out to be Saban with us in the national title hunt every year and that is not the case. He ran a unique offense and if he could've found the right QB, could've likely continued to win a lot of games. No one is saying he was Bear Bryant. But they are saying he kept us competitive and in bowl games year in and year out, with the opportunity to have a magical year now and then (2009, 2014). I think realistically, that is what most Tech fans expect. Be competitive, go to bowl games and when the stars align, put it all together and see if you can make a big run.

Going from consistent bowl games to 3 wins a year when most anyone on this forum could come up to multiple things that Collins did or is doing wrong, either from a football perspective or a "fans" perspective is not a really good place to be. Just a short list and I'm sure others could add a lot more.

1. Not formulating some type of offense to take advantage of the players he inherited. Just mind boggling to me. He effectively gave up on any chance of winning in Year 1 or 2 trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
2. Not having an experienced assistant to help him with game planning, game management, in game corrections for a staff that is clearly not ready for P5 football.
3. The marketing stuff has generally been good, but knowing when to tone it down has not been there at all.
4. Money Down. This has just been comical. I get the reasoning, but my God, if we do that stupid schtick this Saturday after not stopping anyone for three years, I may just walk out of the stadium. Leading to.....
5. He can't read the room. No consideration for the fans of the team. Takes no blame. "it's only about the guys in that locker room...." No, it isn't. It's about the entire program, including the fans who you have totally lost. I think it was after The Citadel game two years ago when I said he needs to take the blame, say we'll get better, it's on us coaches, etc. and was told by fonts here that "he's not talking to you, he doesn't care about you, he's talking to recruits." Well, how's that working out for you.
6. He HAS to come out in the press conference tomorrow and after the mauling on Saturday and say "it's on me and the coaching staff. We're going to get it fixed. I take full responsibility for where we are as a program and I say to the fans, stick with us, the coaches and players are going to work 24/7 to get this corrected and bring back winning football to Georgia Tech. Any thank you to the fans who have stuck with us and to those that are frustrated, we'll get there and we'll make corrections to get back to where we should be." JUST SAY IT! Acknowledge the pain and suffering so many are going through.

I'll leave with this, I really like Pastner a lot. He's kind of goofy, but you could tell from Year 1 he was still learning how to be a head coach and use his players to their best abilities. Cremins was kind of goofy as well, but he was our guy and he understood what to say after a loss. I've emailed with Pastner a bit, telling good job after a big win or whatever. He ALWAYS responds. ALWAYS. I sent him a quick request for an email or short video when my father turned 90 earlier this year and we couldn't get a big group together, so we reached out to some people to get some notes, emails, etc. Within 20 minutes, Pastner sent me a 2 minute video for my dad talking about his nearly 70 years of support for Tech, nearly 70 year season ticket holder, etc. He gets it. Not arrogant. Doesn't think he's the smartest guy in the room. He's in on the joke.

Collins doesn't realize that right now, he IS the joke. Sad.

Pastner does it right for the most part- acknowledges that it is OUR program- he also talks Xs and Os and the truth about failures and accomplishments. Also very polite and appreciative to the media ( instead of staring them down or making a sarcastic laugh) CGC could learn a lot from him.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

So now you resort to the "what if" game.

"What if" O'Leary had continued coaching at Tech and won even more?

See how that works?

What if Collins won more than 3 games a year? We understand you don’t like CPJ. Let it rest. The past is the past.

 

[Squints]

Again, more "what if" game.

You guys play that game a lot.

This is rich coming from the guy who pulled the 'if you ignore all the great seasons the previous coach really wasn't that good' card.

Seems strange to criticize someone for engaging in hypotheticals while trying to hand wave away things that actually happened.

Only things that happened matter! Unless I don't want them to! In which case they don't!

 

[Sheboygan]

Yeah, at a place that’s literally the worst job in the FBS. That’s not even comparable to the GT job

It's a 5 year contract, not just "in name only."

Also, he is not retooling an offense from the ground up. Also, non-P5 contracts don't generally often big buyouts anyways.

Yeah , our guy is also learning how to time manage, hire good assistants, manage team expectations, handle press conferences, and apparently buy appropriate menswear. He is actually retooling a team from below ground up. He hasn't even reached ground level, IMO.

 

[Gomez Adams]

We understand you don’t like CPJ. Let it rest. The past is the past.

I never once said that. Ever.

You people really do just make it up as you go along. The entire conversation started with a bunch of Paul Johnson worshippers saying, "What if he this" and "What if he that".

I simply put forth a what if that didn't involve Paul Johnson and you folks completely lost your minds, called me a PJ hater and an O'Leary lover over it.

You can't play the "what if" game. Because if you decide to do one "what if" you have to do them all. Like "what if" Johnson had never left Navy?

The "what if" game is for wishful thinkers that can't face reality. That is the entire point.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

This is rich coming from the guy who pulled the 'if you ignore all the great seasons the previous coach really wasn't that good' card.

Seems strange to criticize someone for engaging in hypotheticals while trying to hand wave away things that actually happened.

Only things that happened matter! Unless I don't want them to! In which case they don't!

You're responding to a font that created their account Saturday evening. You probably shouldn't expect rational conversation from an account created minutes after a lopsided GT loss.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

That's true! Because he is also learning how to time manage, hire good assistants, manage team expectations, handle press conferences, and apparently buy appropriate menswear, he is retooling a team from below ground up.

 

[GT_05]

You're responding to a font that created their account Saturday evening. You probably shouldn't expect rational conversation from an account created minutes after a lopsided GT loss.

Good catch.

 

[Gomez Adams]

This is rich coming from the guy who pulled the 'if you ignore all the great seasons the previous coach really wasn't that good' card.

Again, taken COMPLETELY out of context.

That post was made to counter people that only talked about the three good seasons he had. It's hysterical how all the PJ worshippers love to talk about "what if" and the three good seasons he had without ever discussing the 6 years of low rank mediocrity and the fact that overall he was barely over a .500% win coach.

 

[gt02]

Yeah , our guy is also learning how to time manage, hire good assistants, manage team expectations, handle press conferences, and apparently buy appropriate menswear. He is actually retooling a team from below ground up. He hasn't even reached ground level, IMO.

Perhaps CGC's statement about the biggest transformation ever was more a reflection on the self learning he needed to do, and less about shifting from 3O to the elitest NFL offense of the elites (which, in fairness it probably is when practicing against our defense)?

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

“What if” we moved on from this?

 

[GTLorenzo]

Perhaps CGC's statement about the biggest transformation ever was more a reflection on the self learning he needed to do, and less about shifting from 3O to the elitest NFL offense of the elites (which, in fairness it probably is when practicing against our defense)?

How do you think out offense looks when practicing against our defense?? Maybe P doesn't game plan more or make adjustments in game because we're burning our defense in practice each week and he thinks that's how it is going to be in games. I wonder if Simms hits those open receivers in practice? Maybe him missing those and us going 3 and out just totally flummoxes P and he becomes a deer in headlights.

 

[JacketOff]

Yeah , our guy is also learning how to time manage, hire good assistants, manage team expectations, handle press conferences, and apparently buy appropriate menswear. He is actually retooling a team from below ground up. He hasn't even reached ground level, IMO.

Neat. That has literally nothing to do with the market value of the GT job compared to the value of the UConn job. Just like Texas and LSU’s jobs aren’t comparable to GT

 

[southernhive]

Is there a troll in this thread? This is UGA hate week and the initials are GA? Hmmm?