Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[jojatk]

Did you notice the size of the incoming FR DL? Have you watched Tarber's film? What are you referring to with "puppet"?

Yes I have noticed the size and watched Tarber's film. Both of those things are very exciting to me. My point to you was that we are ALREADY playing a lot of the freshmen this year. I said that because it looked to me like you were saying in the next couple of games we should expect to see a lot more frosh playing on the DL and I was just commenting that we already play the young ones on the roster a lot. If you were talking more about next year then yes, I agree we will also be playing a lot of young DL next year.

The "puppet" comment was not addressed to you.

 

[augustabuzz]

Yes I have noticed the size and watched Tarber's film. Both of those things are very exciting to me. My point to you was that we are ALREADY playing a lot of the freshmen this year. I said that because it looked to me like you were saying in the next couple of games we should expect to see a lot more frosh playing on the DL and I was just commenting that we already play the young ones on the roster a lot. If you were talking more about next year then yes, I agree we will also be playing a lot of young DL next year.

The "puppet" comment was not addressed to you.

Thanks, I understand. I think we're in agreement. My point is that I am in no way disappointed with the coaching of the DL including ends. I like our youngsters on the DL and I think we are adding talent with the 2022 class.

 

[jojatk]

Go back to the interviews when they first came to Tech. ( This is no word for word) but when asked he said that CGC helps him on defense. If sees something he don't like he will tell him.

That doesn't sound like "puppet" to me. Puppet, to me, is "CGC is our real DC and I'm just the guy relaying the plays." Perhaps you're seeing things I'm not in that respect. It's entirely possible, I suppose, that what I describe is happening. I just haven't seen it but I may not even know what it looks like to recognize it. I have no idea whether CGC will refuse to make any changes in his staff or not. I'm hopeful that he will NOT refuse. I think he may be starting to understand that next year is make or break for visible, easily quantifiable improvement (meaning both wins and MUCH better defense and continued improvement on offense), and if all of those don't happen there's going to be enough momentum to remove him. If he makes a change and there's even a little improvement he may buy himself one more year to show the bigger results but if he doesn't make any changes then, to me, it's all or nothing next year. He's asked for too much blind trust, in my opinion, and when you ask for blind trust and don't have EASILY quantifiable and measurable results to show then you can't keep that trust. He's clearly reached or jumped over that point for a pretty significant percentage of the fanbase.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

We have a lot more drives now than we used to.
Points per drive
2014: 3.37 (4)
2015: 1.84 (88)
2016: 2.57 (33)
2017: 2.19 (57)
2018: 2.88 (15)

2019: 1.3 (125)
2020: 1.86 (96)
2021: 2.08 (77)

It should be noted that PPD is increasing on average nationally. This year's performance is only better than 2015, which everyone can agree was our worst under CPJ in his final years. So despite a nearly identical PPG between 2016 and 2021, the 0.5 PPD difference is equivalent to 6 points since we average 12 drives per game this year.

In the old days, a 7 point lead in the 4th quarter was good as gold. Now? Miami could not hold a double digit lead in the 4th quarter against FSU with just minutes to play. It is a brave new world but defensive coordinators and head coaches continue to try and sit on a lead and play safe. For two consecutive drives Miami rushed 3 with 8 in zone coverage. They were covering grass while FSU receivers went racing by for big plays. IIWII

 

[FlatsLander]

That doesn't sound like "puppet" to me. Puppet, to me, is "CGC is our real DC and I'm just the guy relaying the plays." Perhaps you're seeing things I'm not in that respect. It's entirely possible, I suppose, that what I describe is happening. I just haven't seen it but I may not even know what it looks like to recognize it. I have no idea whether CGC will refuse to make any changes in his staff or not. I'm hopeful that he will NOT refuse. I think he may be starting to understand that next year is make or break for visible, easily quantifiable improvement (meaning both wins and MUCH better defense and continued improvement on offense), and if all of those don't happen there's going to be enough momentum to remove him. If he makes a change and there's even a little improvement he may buy himself one more year to show the bigger results but if he doesn't make any changes then, to me, it's all or nothing next year. He's asked for too much blind trust, in my opinion, and when you ask for blind trust and don't have EASILY quantifiable and measurable results to show then you can't keep that trust. He's clearly reached or jumped over that point for a pretty significant percentage of the fanbase.

I've interpreted it as Thacker is basically a stand-in for CGC and will step to the side whenever CGC wants to put his hands on the defense. In other words, everything Thacker knows about being a DC came from CGC, so Thacker is basically an incomplete copy of CGC as far as being a DC. This lets the defense be built the way CGC wants, while he's free to be the CEO/face of the program. This is also why I really doubt CGC will fire Thacker and bring in anyone remotely established as a DC. He would lose the hands-on availability, and would basically have to let the new DC build the defense without a majority of CGC's input.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I wasn't suggesting firing him now with my question. I was asking if you have any suggestions for improving the game management issues.

I don't think it is realistic that he would be fired this year, so he will have at least one more year to turn things around. However, if the timeout/clock/down-distance/substitutions/etc. type issues aren't improved next year I think it is unlikely that he will have an opportunity in 2023.

I think it is in the team and the fans' best interest for CGC to succeed. If he is fired and replaced, it will start another rebuilding era. No matter what any fan thinks about the coach, they should want the team to win more than they want the coach to be fired.

"If he is fired and replaced, it will start another rebuilding era." Very true but that has not stopped a half a dozen perceived (by their ADs and fan bases) underachieving programs from doing precisely that hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. Miami and Virginia Tech for starters. I think they are being foolish but it is what they do.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

2014...JESUS!

What opposing cornerbacks and outside linebackers were saying...among other choice expletives.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

It isn't. Hasn't been for a couple of years now.

Would you watch "Champ" for years knowing how out of place he was as a head coach?

 

[stech81]

That doesn't sound like "puppet" to me. Puppet, to me, is "CGC is our real DC and I'm just the guy relaying the plays." Perhaps you're seeing things I'm not in that respect. It's entirely possible, I suppose, that what I describe is happening. I just haven't seen it but I may not even know what it looks like to recognize it. I have no idea whether CGC will refuse to make any changes in his staff or not. I'm hopeful that he will NOT refuse. I think he may be starting to understand that next year is make or break for visible, easily quantifiable improvement (meaning both wins and MUCH better defense and continued improvement on offense), and if all of those don't happen there's going to be enough momentum to remove him. If he makes a change and there's even a little improvement he may buy himself one more year to show the bigger results but if he doesn't make any changes then, to me, it's all or nothing next year. He's asked for too much blind trust, in my opinion, and when you ask for blind trust and don't have EASILY quantifiable and measurable results to show then you can't keep that trust. He's clearly reached or jumped over that point for a pretty significant percentage of the fanbase.

Fine than keep him as DC

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You’re right. And with a few quality wins we’d go to the other extreme and start predicting national championships and Heiman trophies!

Which is…..a lot more fun.

 

[orientalnc]

In all this back & forth about the data and the DC and who should get fired or replaced, one really important fact is missing. Change a couple of plays in each of 4 or 5 of our losses and we a winning team. It's not much consolation when the record is 3-7, but it could be 8-2. I am not saying those plays went the wrong way just by chance. We were the cause in most cases, but there is not a huge difference in our play at 3-7 and what it would have been if we were 8-2.

 

[Vespidae]

In all this back & forth about the data and the DC and who should get fired or replaced, one really important fact is missing. Change a couple of plays in each of 4 or 5 of our losses and we a winning team. It's not much consolation when the record is 3-7, but it could be 8-2. I am not saying those plays went the wrong way just by chance. We were the cause in most cases, but there is not a huge difference in our play at 3-7 and what it would have been if we were 8-2.

In the world of finance, after Operating Income, we list all of the Special One-Time charges. This is done to assure business leaders (and investors), that ... except for the Special Charges, we would have made this much more money.

The problem is ... when they are no longer one-time charges, but tend to happen every quarter .... you can no longer list them as "one-time" charges. They are ongoing charges.

Collins makes the same boneheaded mistakes every game. So you can't let him off the hook unless .... you replace him with someone who would not be making those same mistakes.

 

[RonJohn]

In all this back & forth about the data and the DC and who should get fired or replaced, one really important fact is missing. Change a couple of plays in each of 4 or 5 of our losses and we a winning team. It's not much consolation when the record is 3-7, but it could be 8-2. I am not saying those plays went the wrong way just by chance. We were the cause in most cases, but there is not a huge difference in our play at 3-7 and what it would have been if we were 8-2.

I think that actually strengthens the angst with the coaches. If the play calls were on time (offense and defense), the substitutions were efficient, and the clock management was at least modest, we would likely be 6-4 or 7-3 even with player mistakes. Shoot, it would even be possible to be 9-1. At least for me, it is easier to overlook a player for being outmatched or making a mistake than it is to overlook the coaches for so many issues.

 

[Skeptic]

That doesn't sound like "puppet" to me. Puppet, to me, is "CGC is our real DC and I'm just the guy relaying the plays." Perhaps you're seeing things I'm not in that respect. It's entirely possible, I suppose, that what I describe is happening. I just haven't seen it but I may not even know what it looks like to recognize it. I have no idea whether CGC will refuse to make any changes in his staff or not. I'm hopeful that he will NOT refuse. I think he may be starting to understand that next year is make or break for visible, easily quantifiable improvement (meaning both wins and MUCH better defense and continued improvement on offense), and if all of those don't happen there's going to be enough momentum to remove him. If he makes a change and there's even a little improvement he may buy himself one more year to show the bigger results but if he doesn't make any changes then, to me, it's all or nothing next year. He's asked for too much blind trust, in my opinion, and when you ask for blind trust and don't have EASILY quantifiable and measurable results to show then you can't keep that trust. He's clearly reached or jumped over that point for a pretty significant percentage of the fanbase.

none of that means diddly when your head ball coach is lost when in-game decisions must be made. He just looks lost.

 

[Skeptic]

I think that actually strengthens the angst with the coaches. If the play calls were on time (offense and defense), the substitutions were efficient, and the clock management was at least modest, we would likely be 6-4 or 7-3 even with player mistakes. Shoot, it would even be possible to be 9-1. At least for me, it is easier to overlook a player for being outmatched or making a mistake than it is to overlook the coaches for so many issues.

or more likely we might be 0-10.

 

[LoganGTweed]

Hey guys this is just a reminder that jared ivey has better stats that jordan davis this year. Jared Ivey for hiesman right??? #THWG

 

[orientalnc]

In the world of finance, after Operating Income, we list all of the Special One-Time charges. This is done to assure business leaders (and investors), that ... except for the Special Charges, we would have made this much more money.

The problem is ... when they are no longer one-time charges, but tend to happen every quarter .... you can no longer list them as "one-time" charges. They are ongoing charges.

Collins makes the same boneheaded mistakes every game. So you can't let him off the hook unless .... you replace him with someone who would not be making those same mistakes.

Are these repeated boneheaded mistakes by Collins?

At Clemson:
GT had 2nd & Goal at the Clemson 5 and Yates threw 2 incomplete passes. We kicked a FG.
At the Clemson 2 on 4th down the Clemson LB made a great read and stuffed a shuttle pass.

We lost by 6 points. If we score both times the game is ours.

Looking back on that game, it's clear the problems we saw in the Clemson offense would exist all season. So our D doesn't get much credit. Also, the Clemson offense at that time was essentially to hand the ball to Shipley and we have been pretty good against the run this season.

But, I think we have problems the coaches have created or not adequately addressed. I am not arguing that point.

But, to your point, what are the boneheaded mistakes Collins makes every game?

 

[WreckinGT]

In all this back & forth about the data and the DC and who should get fired or replaced, one really important fact is missing. Change a couple of plays in each of 4 or 5 of our losses and we a winning team. It's not much consolation when the record is 3-7, but it could be 8-2. I am not saying those plays went the wrong way just by chance. We were the cause in most cases, but there is not a huge difference in our play at 3-7 and what it would have been if we were 8-2.

There are alot of teams that can claim they were close to being 8-2 if all the key plays they screwed up on went the other way. Heck, Nebraska could be 10-0 with four top 15 wins. Instead they are 3-7 like us and their coach is trying to figure out how he didnt get fired.

 

[orientalnc]

There are alot of teams that can claim they were close to being 8-2 if all the key plays they screwed up on went the other way. Heck, Nebraska could be 10-0 with four top 15 wins. Instead they are 3-7 like us and their coach is trying to figure out how he didnt get fired.

I understand your point, and I think you could make a case that we could be 1-9 instead of 3-7 just as easily. We are not getting blown out week after week. Six of those seven losses are by a total of 38 points. It's really not too difficult to find plays with inadequate execution that could have gone the other way.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

In all this back & forth about the data and the DC and who should get fired or replaced, one really important fact is missing. Change a couple of plays in each of 4 or 5 of our losses and we a winning team. It's not much consolation when the record is 3-7, but it could be 8-2. I am not saying those plays went the wrong way just by chance. We were the cause in most cases, but there is not a huge difference in our play at 3-7 and what it would have been if we were 8-2.

We could be "8-2"? Sure, if we were playing in the MAC but the gods of football tend to be unforgiving to those teams that are manifestly careless with the football, commit multiple penalties and have a defense that leaves receivers open by 5, 10, or even 15 yards. A blind man could see that the one guy who could really hurt you last week was Flowers and damn if we do not let him go about his merry way.