Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[TampaBuzz]

A lot of us are still comparing everything to the memories we have stored of the 2014 season. Those were some gaudy offensive numbers. But the numbers this year are almost identical to the 2015, 2016, and 2017 numbers during the Johnson years. We scored a lot of points in 2018 because of two games in the 60s, but the YPG in all four of those years were very similar to this year's numbers to date.

PPG/3D%/YPG

2015 28.8/34.9/378
2016 28.2/41.6/387
2017 28.1/45.6/392
2018 45.3/43.6/409

2021 28.6/37.3/401

My whole point in this is to defend (a bit) Coach P and the assistants on the offensive side. We are not good, but these are not terrible numbers. What we lack on offense is the discipline to avoid unforced errors like penalties and bad reads and unforced turnovers. We can move the ball. To me the offense seems on track, but they are being asked to overcome a very deficient defense.

You forgot an important part of the equation. During the referenced years, we rarely went 3 and out and controlled the clock every game - meaning the defense did not play as much. The other team was lucky to get 10 possessions a game. This year we are getting similar numbers of yards on a 3 or 4 quick strike drives, but we are punting 7 - 8 times a game after 3 and outs because we cannot put a long drive together. The other team gets the ball 15 or 16 times a game and the defense has demonstrated no ability to get off the field.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

No. At the end of the day football is entertainment. If it stops being entertaining then people stop attending. That doesn’t make them bad fans, that makes them people that realize that life is short, and spending half your weekend doing something that has a net negative effect on your life is a poor decision.

Now, should wins be the ultimate determination of entertainment? No. But if actually looked like we knew what we were doing on one side of the ball or we were losing games on fluke plays then I think the attitude might be slightly different.

In other words it’s not just the results that are bad. The inputs are bad. That’s what makes it not entertaining.

The team (coaches and players together) aren’t entitled to support. It has to be earned. Right now they aren’t doing a whole lot to earn it.

If that's your rationale, you're a fan of entertainment, not a fan of the team.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

If that's your rationale, you're a fan of entertainment, not a fan of the team.

The problem is most people at heart are a little of both but wan't entertainment. All you will end up with is s small core of people who are true fans. You can put down the people who want to win all you want, but at the end of the day we need a lot of fans to support the program for the $$$. CGC is still rapidly destroying this team and our brand which drives more and more fans away eventually even the most dedicated fans.

Why are you afraid to have an honest discussion? You deflect and shield. There is a potential path that does not entail firing CGC. But CGC needs guidance to get there. He will 100% fail if he is allowed to continue down his own path

 

[orientalnc]

You forgot an important part of the equation. During the referenced years, we rarely went 3 and out and controlled the clock every game - meaning the defense did not play as much. The other team was lucky to get 10 possessions a game. This year we are getting similar numbers of yards on a 3 or 4 quick strike drives, but we are punting 7 - 8 times a game after 3 and outs because we cannot put a long drive together. The other team gets the ball 15 or 16 times a game and the defense has demonstrated no ability to get off the field.

I thought I made the point I intended, but, to use your example, during the Johnson years of 2015-2018 we averaged about 4 punts per game. This year, through ten games, we are averaging 4.5 punts. Yes, it is certainly an increase, but the data do not support your point.

I have no idea where to find 3 & out data, but the number of punts ought to be correlated to some degree.

# of punts
2015 46
2016 47
2017 50
2018 35

2021 45

We have games coming up against much better defensive teams so we may punt 7-8 times in one or both of those games.

 

[jojatk]

I wasn't suggesting firing him now with my question. I was asking if you have any suggestions for improving the game management issues.

I don't think it is realistic that he would be fired this year, so he will have at least one more year to turn things around. However, if the timeout/clock/down-distance/substitutions/etc. type issues aren't improved next year I think it is unlikely that he will have an opportunity in 2023.

I think it is in the team and the fans' best interest for CGC to succeed. If he is fired and replaced, it will start another rebuilding era. No matter what any fan thinks about the coach, they should want the team to win more than they want the coach to be fired.

I feel like a decent size chunk of our game management problems stem from how long it takes us to get plays called and signaled in to the team. One of my most consistent frustrations with our coordinators is that they seem to take forever to make up their minds on what play to call.

I’m sure everyone here experiences the same frustration every time we are on defense and the other team lines up ready to snap the ball, and I’m not talking about hurry up offenses now, and our players are still looking at the sideline waiting for something. Or when we are on offense and the play clock is ticking ticking ticking and our guys still don’t have the play call.

If we got some more decisive, overall better coordinators, I think we might see fewer game management issues show up.

 

[billga99]

It's a chicken and egg situation. The biggest reason for the decline in attendance everywhere is the fact that (almost) all games are televised. The biggest detriment to in-person atmosphere is the seemingly endless TV timeouts.

I agree with the timeouts. In fact, we have named the person with the timeout screen the television Nazi. It is unbelievable that you see a 3 minute timeout, run 1 play and have another 3 minute timeout. So games are always 3 1/2 to 4 hours. If you are at home on your couch, you just switch to another game. So I continue to be a Season Ticket holder and go to the games. But the amount and length of timeouts is beyond ridiculous. But here is the rub. College Athletics is a huge money game and TV revenue is crucial to the budget of athletic programs. So I don't expect this to change for that reason. But I do think the length of games is a reason attendance is declining.

In the Atlanta area, Bally Sports (the old Fox Sports South and Southeast) control the Braves, Hawks and United telecasts. They have been booted off all of the streaming services, so they are only on Comcast and AT&T. They are going to charge $25 to $30 per month moving forward to get the right to watch these games. I fear the next round of trying to make money will be some sort of pay per view for College Games. As they need to squeeze more money from television, generic free viewing could go away.

 

[Vespidae]

I have been to games and not that long ago like the whiteout game in 2015 against FSU where we had 43 to 47 thousand just tech fans not counting the FSU fans but when it comes to UGA Game which is our biggest rivalry we can’t get half or less than that stadium full is absolutely pathetic. That game shouldn’t matter what our record is nor should there record is. And make things worst is that game is always senior day for the players. That make even worse and is just pathetic. I will be there and I just hope at least 40 thousand or more tech fans will be there also.


f

There's a saying in manufacturing ... "Don't size the church for Easter". We have done that with Bobby Dodd Stadium. It is sized for a crowd way out of proportion to demand. As a result, there is a volume of tickets available to anyone who wants them. And UGA(g) does. They could have solved that problem by remaining the sole engineering school but punted ... instead chasing the dollars of GTRI.

No one really talks about it. But Petit's decision in the late 70's to focus Tech on research has made billions for the state and fundamentally transformed the Institute. Tech's mission is no longer to produce technical graduates for the State of Georgia (which grow the alumni base and fan support). Other universities do that mission now. Tech's job is to generate money. Lots of it.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. That's why I think the Collins Experiment was doomed from the start. The Hill is bonused on research dollars generated, not sports. And that's where the focus is.

 

[4shotB]

The problem is most people at heart are a little of both but wan't entertainment. All you will end up with is s small core of people who are true fans. You can put down the people who want to win all you want, but at the end of the day we need a lot of fans to support the program for the $$$. CGC is still rapidly destroying this team and our brand which drives more and more fans away eventually even the most dedicated fans.

Why are you afraid to have an honest discussion? You deflect and shield. There is a potential path that does not entail firing CGC. But CGC needs guidance to get there. He will 100% fail if he is allowed to continue down his own path

If I think of this season, it has been one of the most entertaining in awhile in that every game is going deep into the 4th quarter and has you on the edge of your seat. Not saying I am not frustrated by silly mistakes or repetitive problems but I, for one, have gotten maximum entertainment from this season. I will see how these next two play out but I don't go into them expecting blowouts as most seem to. but my wife thinks I am idiot too.

 

[bobongo]

If I think of this season, it has been one of the most entertaining in awhile in that every game is going deep into the 4th quarter and has you on the edge of your seat. Not saying I am not frustrated by silly mistakes or repetitive problems but I, for one, have gotten maximum entertainment from this season. I will see how these next two play out but I don't go into them expecting blowouts as most seem to. but my wife thinks I am idiot too.

Entertaining, for sure - especially that Miami game. I've pretty much thrown in the towel on the Ugag game, but I haven't given up hope the Jackets can beat Notre Dame, our befuddled coach notwithstanding.

 

[GTLorenzo]

I thought I made the point I intended, but, to use your example, during the Johnson years of 2015-2018 we averaged about 4 punts per game. This year, through ten games, we are averaging 4.5 punts. Yes, it is certainly an increase, but the data do not support your point.

I have no idea where to find 3 & out data, but the number of punts ought to be correlated to some degree.

# of punts
2015 46
2016 47
2017 50
2018 35

2021 45

We have games coming up against much better defensive teams so we may punt 7-8 times in one or both of those games.

It would be interesting to add turnovers into that equation as well to get a total for each year. I would assume that we had fewer turnovers back then, but could be wrong.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

If I think of this season, it has been one of the most entertaining in awhile in that every game is going deep into the 4th quarter and has you on the edge of your seat. Not saying I am not frustrated by silly mistakes or repetitive problems but I, for one, have gotten maximum entertainment from this season. I will see how these next two play out but I don't go into them expecting blowouts as most seem to. but my wife thinks I am idiot too.

No, but to be honest, I go into every game expecting (on some level of my consciousness) to lose. So close games, in which we lose, only reinforces the feeling of doom. Back to back to back 3-9 seasons killed any sense of drama for me.

I used to feel like Tech could pull an occasional upset or that anything could happen no matter who were playing. Weirdly, I even felt that during Curry’s worst seasons. Now losing feels inevitable because it feels like the coaches can never call a consistent game or maximize the effort of the players. We don’t seem to ever fire on all cylinders. Close games are a surprising outcome. Losing is not.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

If I think of this season, it has been one of the most entertaining in awhile in that every game is going deep into the 4th quarter and has you on the edge of your seat. Not saying I am not frustrated by silly mistakes or repetitive problems but I, for one, have gotten maximum entertainment from this season. I will see how these next two play out but I don't go into them expecting blowouts as most seem to. but my wife thinks I am idiot too.

I see your point but it is more like, In what exciting way will I get my heart ripped out this week. So tired of losing. Just a little bit better coaching and we double our wins. Very frustrated for the players. They deserve better

 

[wesgt123]

I see your point but it is more like, In what exciting way will I get my heart ripped out this week. So tired of losing. Just a little bit better coaching and we double our wins. Very frustrated for the players. They deserve better

You know the old adage, close but no cigar. Man I’m tired of not having cigars.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The problem is most people at heart are a little of both but wan't entertainment. All you will end up with is s small core of people who are true fans. You can put down the people who want to win all you want, but at the end of the day we need a lot of fans to support the program for the $$$. CGC is still rapidly destroying this team and our brand which drives more and more fans away eventually even the most dedicated fans.

Why are you afraid to have an honest discussion? You deflect and shield. There is a potential path that does not entail firing CGC. But CGC needs guidance to get there. He will 100% fail if he is allowed to continue down his own path

You can be both. I want to win. I am willing to donate to ensure my team has the resources to win on this stage. When people start bragging about walking away from the team because they don't like (insert reason here) then they weren't truly loyal fans to begin with. It's not a hard concept. You either are or aren't loyal. I haven't once deflected or shielded. What I have done is stand firm in this position. My personal integrity and character doesn't allow for me to have any other opinion about the nature of loyalty. This is a hill I will die on. Conditional loyalty is not loyalty.

As for having an honest discussion, I am as fair and aboveboard as I can be on this matter. I disagree that CGC is "rapidly destroying this team" but reiterate that even if he was, a true fan would remain loyal during the process. FWIW, I am not a CGC fan. Never have been. If you dig through enough of my post history you will see where I stated my distaste for his hiring at the beginning. That's a personal preference issue on my part and does not stop me from supporting my team. An honest discussion would require posters to put aside the snark and have an open conversation about the state of this program. I posted such an opinion a couple of pages back.

Caveat: if the Institute were to act in a way that was contrary to ethics/morals/law, then you would have a legitimate reason to withhold support.

 

[Jmonty71]

Have we seriously gotten to the what kind of fan you are mode? You're not a real fan vs. just a fan of winning vs. band wagon fan??? That's awesome..... Nothing says a program is in trouble than fans squabbling on whether they are a "true" fan or not. Listen, I get it... We're frustrated. Not all of us.. but most of us. Some people are just as delusional as Collins is. Fact is fact, we're NOT a good team. We DON'T have a good coaching staff. We have had losing records, 3 years in a row. And, more than likely we'll have another 3 win season. There isn't a lot to be optimistic about. However; belittling each other over their fan-hood isn't going to fix or change a damned thing. We can agree to disagree and that's fine... However; I am one of the few that CHOSE to be a GT fan.. I didn't attend the school... I grew up in a large UGA fan area. Yet, I chose GT as my school to root for. I made this choice back in the mid 80s... But, if you want to push away fans and future fans, please continue to belittle the fans, that are expressing their opinions. I think Collins is a fraud. He rode coat tails, to get where he's gotten. People full of BS get exposed. Just some see them for what they are quicker than others. That's my opinion... Am I bad fan for saying so?

 

[wesgt123]

Have we seriously gotten to the what kind of fan you are mode? You're not a real fan vs. just a fan of winning vs. band wagon fan??? That's awesome..... Nothing says a program is in trouble than fans squabbling on whether they are a "true" fan or not. Listen, I get it... We're frustrated. Not all of us.. but most of us. Some people are just as delusional as Collins is. Fact is fact, we're NOT a good team. We DON'T have a good coaching staff. We have had losing records, 3 years in a row. And, more than likely we'll have another 3 win season. There isn't a lot to be optimistic about. However; belittling each other over their fan-hood isn't going to fix or change a damned thing. We can agree to disagree and that's fine... However; I am one of the few that CHOSE to be a GT fan.. I didn't attend the school... I grew up in a large UGA fan area. Yet, I chose GT as my school to root for. I made this choice back in the mid 80s... But, if you want to push away fans and future fans, please continue to belittle the fans, that are expressing their opinions. I think Collins is a fraud. He rode coat tails, to get where he's gotten. People full of BS get exposed. Just some see them for what they are quicker than others. That's my opinion... Am I bad fan for saying so?

Here, here! The fact that we are arguing about this is surprising but not. Being a part of this board has shown me tech fans will argue over anything. Hell, I come to a football forum and see freaking math equations in a thread and it makes my head spin.

But I can assure you if we were a good team with a decent, respectable record and a few quality wins these conversations wouldn’t be happening lol

 

[okiemon]

Here, here! The fact that we are arguing about this is surprising but not. Being a part of this board has shown me tech fans will argue over anything. Hell, I come to a football forum and see freaking math equations in a thread and it makes my head spin.

But I can assure you if we were a good team with a decent, respectable record and a few quality wins these conversations wouldn’t be happening lol

You’re right. And with a few quality wins we’d go to the other extreme and start predicting national championships and Heiman trophies!

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

So, your logic... We generate band wagon fans.... How many leave, when we lose? 100%? Even if we can grow the fan base by 20%, its far better than losing fans, by attrition. Plus, I wouldn't mind a stadium full of band wagoneers, versus a half full stadium, at best, of true fans.....

I can tell you that when a team is going good, they get a lot of sidewalk fans. Everywhere I go I see Gagger stuff this year. And Braves fans that can’t tell the difference between an out and a hit.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I believe if we hold on to this recruiting class, we will be running a serious defense in short order.

How short? Many will not play as freshmen.

 

[stech81]

If CGC was as half as good as HE THINKS HE IS we could win a few more games, But the fact is he ain't . I hate to wish my life away at my age but I really look forward to the next 2 years being over fast and getting a real coach in here.