MBB - 🤞 Clemson 2/21 GAME THREAD.

[Buzzforlife]

Personally, it bothered me somewhat during one of his previous press conferences CDS stated that he has to manipulate the players.

 

[Peacone36]

Personally, it bothered me somewhat during one of his previous press conferences CDS stated that he has to manipulate the players.

That is just saying the quiet part out loud. I think coaches often manipulate their players in order to get the best out of them. They just don't announce it publicly.

 

[spdrama]

Personally, it bothered me somewhat during one of his previous press conferences CDS stated that he has to manipulate the players.

So what exactly is the problem with a coach manipulating players into better performance? Do
you think CDS is using unfair or insidious means or skillful/artful means? Maybe manipulation in coaching is necessary and also smart.

manipulate​

verb​

ma·nip·u·late mə-ˈni-pyə-ˌlāt

manipulated; manipulating
Synonyms of manipulate
transitive verb
1
: to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner

2
a
: to manage or utilize skillfully

b
: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage


3
: to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

 

[MWBATL]

Every good manage manipulates their employees.

CDS deserves the time to work his system, pure and simple. None of us on this message board are anything more than enthusiastic fans. Let’s wait and see in year 2 and 3 if he canget his sytem to work and get us winning again. If he can, we’ll suddenly love him. If he doesn’t, he’ll be a bum. But Saban took a while to get his system in at Bama, and if wins over Duke and UNC don’t show you some potential, then I don’t know what will.

Coaches usually don’t tell the truth in press conferences. Nor should they. They’re not going to sit there and tell you “this guy played lousy tonight, I’m gonna have to kick his butt tomorrow” or “that guy doesn’t listen to our game plan and shows off too much” even though some of that undoubtedly happens. Usually you get “coach speak” which is a lot of babble that tells you…nothing. When a coach actually says what he means for once, folks always go “whoa!”. Fans nee dto get over it.

Just win, baby. Don’t try to watch the sausage making in the background. You wouldn’t like it.

 

[stinger78]

So, shooting is our issue. i checked Blue Cain’s numbers. He’s averaged almost 20 minutes and under 7 ppg. Don’t anyone be saying lost our answer with the coaching hire.

 

[iopjacket]

CDS probably would be well served by some PR lessons for his press conferences. I like them because he is open and honest, but he can ruffle feelings.

 

[MWBATL]

CDS probably would be well served by some PR lessons for his press conferences. I like them because he is open and honest, but he can ruffle feelings.

Whose feelings? Yours? He shouldn’t care. His players? That may be what he intends. He could easily have said what he said after Clemson as a way of challenging this team to see who would come out fighting in the last 5 games. Let him manage and let’s all see what happens.

 

[TampaBuzz]

Whose feelings? Yours? He shouldn’t care. His players? That may be what he intends. He could easily have said what he said after Clemson as a way of challenging this team to see who would come out fighting in the last 5 games. Let him manage and let’s all see what happens.

Coach is saying loud and clear that he demands his players play with pride, intelligence, and full effort every second of every game and of every practice. After the last game (and many games this year), it is apparent that his demand is reasonable if we are going to have a chance of winning with any level of consistency. Why are folks on a message board getting so upset about that? It seems perfectly reasonable that he say that "his guys" are going to meet that demand, cuz many of the players on the current team are certainly not. I am hopeful that they get the message and improve because that message resonates throughout all aspects of life.

 

[spdrama]

CDS probably would be well served by some PR lessons for his press conferences. I like them because he is open and honest, but he can ruffle feelings.

Kowacie Reeves dad, who is very active in the basketball recruiting world, remarked on twitter for potential GT recruits that CDS tells it like it is and and will give it to you straight & honest. I would bet the press, fans & public get the watered down straight talk in his pressers. Doubt very much that the players are spared or hear anything in the pressers that they are not already aware of.

 

[MtnWasp]

Personally, it bothered me somewhat during one of his previous press conferences CDS stated that he has to manipulate the players.

What he said was, coaching is manipulation. He used a term, 'manipulation,' that has negative connotations.

If had said, "coaching is inspiration," that would have carried a more positive connotation. But even inspiration is, technically, a form of manipulation.

I think people need to get beyond the expectation that everyone around then is obligated to give them the warm fuzzies with every utterance they make. It is a ridiculous expectation and harmful. I think it is more enriching for us to reward our experts for sharing an honest appraisal of what they perceive. It dumbs us all down when we constrain those experts and insiders into only giving us the vacuous "Disney" version of reality.

We don't have to agree with them but we can show our respect and admiration for them trying to communicate with us in a genuinely insightful manner. People hammering on Stoudamire for sharing with us exactly what is in his mind is a legitimate symptom of larger societal issues.

 

[iopjacket]

Whose feelings? Yours? He shouldn’t care. His players? That may be what he intends. He could easily have said what he said after Clemson as a way of challenging this team to see who would come out fighting in the last 5 games. Let him manage and let’s all see what happens.

Not mine, but there seems to be enough against expressed in the posts I read. If you read my post, I said I liked his press conferences. Did I hurt your feelings?

 

[MWBATL]

Not mine, but there seems to be enough against expressed in the posts I read. If you read my post, I said I liked his press conferences. Did I hurt your feelings?

LOL…nope. Sorry if I maligned you...

 

[Root4GT]

Whose feelings? Yours? He shouldn’t care. His players? That may be what he intends. He could easily have said what he said after Clemson as a way of challenging this team to see who would come out fighting in the last 5 games. Let him manage and let’s all see what happens.

Good words. The players are playing high level college basketball. He is not calling anyone out by name, just telling the team that is you don't play as coached you will get your *** beat down as happened against Clemson. Ether buy into how he is coaching or you will be replaced.

 

[LargeFO]

It's 100% a deflection to bring up Pastner here. You can't even pretend that CDS takes any responsibility after losses.

But since you brought it up, Pastner won ACC CotY for greatly overperforming with the group that he inherited instead of throwing them under the bus after every loss. He also had our first back to back winning conferences records in a quarter century and our first conference championship in a similar amount of time. There was at least some level of success to earn leeway in balancing the problems he had to believe he could have success in the future. Even with that I routinely criticized his stubbornness with regards to the Princeton and especially his tendency in his later years of going small ball lineups to the detriment of the development of our bigs, and even before he was fired last year I said he likely wasn't going to be the guy to fix things long term but was against firing him because we were unlikely to land someone actually better at that time (and the way things have played since then haven't done anything to prove that fear unwarranted). Just because you refuse to criticize CDS doesn't mean I was the same way with Pastner.

In contrast, CDS has never led his team to the NCAAT as a head coach. He has an overall losing record, and only one winning season as a head coach. He wasn't some long tenured NBA assistant or the secret reason the Celtics were good like people pretend. He was there a year and a half. He only spent two years coaching at the P5 level in any capacity. In short, nothing he has done as a coach warrants the absolute free pass he is being given for this year nor his complete throwing the players under the bus and taking no responsibility for his team's play.

Holy revisionist history. LOL

 

[spdrama]

Holy revisionist history. LOL

lol. Can just imagine what the “ignored”
guy is saying today. Same thing he says after every loss. He believes “Back To The Future” is a real life documentary.

 

[lv20gt]

Holy revisionist history. LOL

These were posts i made from last year In regards to pastner.

In response to why we were strugging on offense last year.

I think we have good shooters on the team. I think as a team we do very little to generate good looks so a lot of our looks are longer shots, contested shots, etc that lead to lower percentage. For some reason our offense seems designed to generate tough shots at the rim for our wings and guards and does almost nothing to try and generate outside looks.

In response to someone claiming we got outrebounded because a lack of heart.

By playing one interior player we're often in line ups where only one guy has probably had much pressure to rebound before to develop those skills, and he's often at a further disadvantage because of his height.

In response to a claim that we would need Howard for defense and rebounding.

We will. Unfortunately we've rarely, if ever, ran a line up with both of them on the court at once. Unfortunately, the way I see this year playing out is Howard will play about 10 minutes a game right until the time we absolutely can't get away with a 6-7 center. Then we'll put him in and be surprised he's struggling.

From a preseason line up discussion.

2) Can our coaching staff get away from the obsession with tiny ball experimentation.

3) Can we better utilize depth than we have so far under Pastner.

At the end of last year when diacussing if we should fire pastner.

Pastner may or may not be the answer long term, with odds are that he isn't. If we fire him I would wager that his replacement, that we would get this year, likely wouldn't be either. What we do know is we need to improve our NIL competitiveness. Do that and maybe Pastner is the guy. If not we're more likely to land a coach who is. So If we have to chose just one, I'd rather fix the NIL deal first then make the coaching change, if needed, rather than forcing the coaching change now without the NIL situation in place that the better names would probably want.

And here is a real kicker. Odd you don't remember it because it was in response to your post and you even responded to it.

Yes, if we were serious, we'd fire Pastner, and go make a big name hire. But we won't. We'll either stick with Pastner and hope he figures out the inconstancy issues, or fire him and likely land with an extraordinarily lack luster hire of a coach who will probably have accomplished less than what Pastner already has here.

That was from last March.

You are the only one doing revisionist history.

 

[LargeFO]

These were posts i made from last year In regards to pastner.

In response to why we were strugging on offense last year.


In response to someone claiming we got outrebounded because a lack of heart.


In response to a claim that we would need Howard for defense and rebounding.



From a preseason line up discussion.


At the end of last year when diacussing if we should fire pastner.





And here is a real kicker. Odd you don't remember it because it was in response to your post and you even responded to it.



That was from last March.

You are the only one doing revisionist history.

Bud, you do this bored tiresome deal everytime. You keep your little archive of 8 posts like it's all you've said for years. And then post it like it embodies your thousands of posts. Cool archive. Doesn't remotely tell the whole story.

 

[lv20gt]

Bud, you do this bored tiresome deal everytime. You keep your little archive of 8 posts like it's all you've said for years. And then post it like it embodies your thousands of posts. Cool archive. Doesn't remotely tell the whole story.

It doesn't tell the story you made up in your head.

 

[Jack]

Georgia Tech routed at home by Clemson

Yellow Jackets fell behind early and could never recover against the Tigers.

www.ajc.com

Sliced and diced by a well disciplined team

 

[alagold]

Its a bit discouraging to see the team not really progress over the yr.I didn't expect much but the upsets were a false nice taste of what could be.Whether it WILL be is the question.Its toward the end of a long season and I noticed a bunch of teams are getting blown out.Without SR type motivated players that's what you get. otoh--the coach needs to step up to punch the right buttons.A start would be a good big man to offer some off and def capability.Guards are great but they have to be skilled and experienced usually to carry a team.Next yr is going to be interesting.If the team is 5-13 with blowout losses ,we have our answer on CDS.