Marco Coleman to Sparty?

[DuckGT]

Yes, I've read that here but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure who we could have had, who we reached out to, who reached out to us and therefore who we passed on.

Wasn’t it confirmed we at least interviewed Mike Norvell and Seth Littrell?

 

[MWBATL]

I can’t say I’m fortune to know the money that well, but the same source that told me about Gibbs a few months before it happened has told me that the attitude has “greatly changed” after UGA won the MNC and that a lot of people “feel embarrassed”. I don’t know why the 9-25 record wasn’t enough to be embarrassed, but our rival winning the championship was, but whatever. As long as the mindset is changing.

Mindset changing might be the necessary first step, but until the money changes, nothing else will change.

 

[LongforDodd]

Wasn’t it confirmed we at least interviewed Mike Norvell and Seth Littrell?

This is the first that I've read those two names but then again I read, on average, only about 80% of everything here.

 

[RamblinRed]

Looking back on some articles from the time period we know that Ken Whisenhunt was interviewed (possibly as a courtesy interview as a former alum).
It appears that the other main contenders at the time were Collins, Scott Satterfield (who ended up at L'ville) and Tony Elliot (now at UVA).

This is an interesting article to look back on.

Georgia Tech’s coaching search zeroing in on modernizers

Plus notes on two other open FBS head coaching jobs, with all of it involving Appalachian State.

www.sbnation.com

 

[slugboy]

Wasn’t it confirmed we at least interviewed Mike Norvell and Seth Littrell?

I didn't see that confirmed. An interview would have meant mutual interest, and there were a few rumors where one side was interested but not the other. For example, I'm not sure we ever got to interview Satterfield before he accepted the Louisville job.
One side or the other might have indicated interest. With the small number of "known interviews", but guess would be that we had more interest in experienced candidates than they had in us, and inexperienced or less successful coaches had more interest in us than we had in them.
The only person I'm sure we interviewed was Whisenhunt, who pulled his name out at the same time that fans vented heavily about his hire.
Lots of names get circulated on the board (hello Mike Leach) that don't have mutual interest.

 

[takethepoints]

Just because somebody has a losing record as a head coach doesn’t mean they’re a bad coach, just a bad head coach. A head coach has a ton more responsibilities than even coordinators, and sometimes even great coaches and coordinators aren’t prepared or able to do all the things asked of them as head coaches. They also weren’t just handed a head coaching job without working their way up the ladder either. Most of the time for a decade+. It’s not like all of them have to be former head coaches either. There are plenty of former coordinators and position coaches that go into analyst positions for big schools. Are coaches more effective at conveying a message to players than someone who’s only job is to study analytics and film? Well almost assuredly everytime. There’s a reason why the analysts for baseball teams aren’t in the dugout or on the field during spring training with players. It’s because they understand the information, but likely have no idea how to convey their message. That’s why coaches are necessary. And the more coaches you can get on your analytical team, the better off you’ll be as long as you have enough actual data miners and data analysts.

Alabama had 11 full time analysts last year. 4 of them have coached in D1 and/or the NFL. Among them were a former TE coach for the Texans, and a DC for Pitt and UCF, with other stops at P5 schools along the way.

It is certainly true - and I never said otherwise - that you need coaches on the field. The question is whether former coaches make good analysts. I've never seen any serious study that indicates they do and I'm betting that there is little interest among football coaches to answer the question. Analysts in baseball advise the managers on who to play when, how to use and pick personnel, and general strategy for the game. (And, I might add, they talk to players about what they should do all the time.) The managers then obey orders, with some discretion. This is very unlike football and I'm not sure why. If I had to bet, I would guess that there is an "old scout" assumption that experience trumps analysis. That certainly seems to be your argument.

But I admit I don't know much about this. I think the only area where football shows a keen interest in analytics is in recruiting and the assumption is that if you get the best athletes, you'll be able to do well regardless. Well, duh. If Tech could do this I'd be very pleased. But we can't and won't. That means on the field and in recruiting, we have to be more analytic and be sure that the two work hand in glove.

 

[JacketOff]

It is certainly true - and I never said otherwise - that you need coaches on the field. The question is whether former coaches make good analysts. I've never seen any serious study that indicates they do and I'm betting that there is little interest among football coaches to answer the question. Analysts in baseball advise the managers on who to play when, how to use and pick personnel, and general strategy for the game. (And, I might add, they talk to players about what they should do all the time.) The managers then obey orders, with some discretion. This is very unlike football and I'm not sure why. If I had to bet, I would guess that there is an "old scout" assumption that experience trumps analysis. That certainly seems to be your argument.

But I admit I don't know much about this. I think the only area where football shows a keen interest in analytics is in recruiting and the assumption is that if you get the best athletes, you'll be able to do well regardless. Well, duh. If Tech could do this I'd be very pleased. But we can't and won't. That means on the field and in recruiting, we have to be more analytic and be sure that the two work hand in glove.

You’re conflating what I’m saying to mean that coaches make the best analysts. That’s not what I’m saying at all. Coaches make the best coaches. Most actual data analysts are not coaches and likely have no coaching experience. What I’m saying is that large schools with money and power are using those “analyst” positions and filling them with additional coaches. In 2020 Alabama had 3 different former P5 head coaches, and another who was the HC at Houston. They aren’t using those guys as “analysts,” they’re using them to circumvent the 11 coach rule, in addition to actually having a team of dedicated analysts. The coaches who are listed as “analysts” are filling a different role than the actual analysts, and schools like Alabama, UGA, and A&M can afford to actually have both on their staff.

 

[takethepoints]

You’re conflating what I’m saying to mean that coaches make the best analysts. That’s not what I’m saying at all. Coaches make the best coaches. Most actual data analysts are not coaches and likely have no coaching experience. What I’m saying is that large schools with money and power are using those “analyst” positions and filling them with additional coaches. In 2020 Alabama had 3 different former P5 head coaches, and another who was the HC at Houston. They aren’t using those guys as “analysts,” they’re using them to circumvent the 11 coach rule, in addition to actually having a team of dedicated analysts. The coaches who are listed as “analysts” are filling a different role than the actual analysts, and schools like Alabama, UGA, and A&M can afford to actually have both on their staff.

I admitted all this two exchanges ago; you can check. Glad you made your argument clearer (or that I read it better).

 

[GTpdm]

Not sure where the top gif comes from, but I’m pretty sure the bottom one is the (u)GA PhD qualifier exam in their School of Math And Other Complicated Stuff.

 

[Pointer]

Not sure where the top gif comes from, but I’m pretty sure the bottom one is the (u)GA PhD qualifier exam in their School of Math And Other Complicated Stuff.

Don't you think you may be giving them a bit too much credit?

 

[Root4GT]

Are they? More effective, that is? Personally, I doubt it and I can fall back on their records for support. Now, if you can - and, as you point out, Bama can - hire both former coaches and "analytical nerds" then you might as well. Problem = I've never seen an analysis of what mix of assistants/analysts works best and delivers the best results. The idea that experience and game day knowledge accumulated by a coach with a losing record is what you want doesn't impress me. Yet another way that football shows how far behind baseball ion analytics it is.

There are a whole lot of football coaches who are very good as assistant coaches but fail as head coaches. Ignoring using a former successful assistant coach for an analyst position because he failed as a HC is simply ignorant.

 

[takethepoints]

There are a whole lot of football coaches who are very good as assistant coaches but fail as head coaches. Ignoring using a former successful assistant coach for an analyst position because he failed as a HC is simply ignorant.

I think Jacket had the better argument by pointing out that many "analysts" at places like Bama are actually there to get around the NCAA 11 coach limit. Iow, they aren't actually analysts at all; they're assistant coaches. You can get away with this (so far) if you have the money.

Being an analyst, however, is - or should be - a different job. Mind, I don't know much about how advanced analytics are in football, but on baseball teams that are all in on analytics, analysts pick and advise the players, tell the managers how to use them, and outline general strategy. The managers do what they are told within limited discretion; the amount differs from team to team. I've never heard that it works this way in football. If you have a head coach with an analytical bent - Paul, for instance - you can see something like the kind of analysis you see in baseball. But most coaches want to run the whole show and pay attention to their assistants, kinda. The analysts are there to help with recruiting, the only area of football I can see where analysis is heavily used.

Obviously, I should look into this further. Right now, I'm going on speculation based on what I see. That's always dangerous.

 

[slugboy]

I think Jacket had the better argument by pointing out that many "analysts" at places like Bama are actually there to get around the NCAA 11 coach limit. Iow, they aren't actually analysts at all; they're assistant coaches. You can get away with this (so far) if you have the money.

Being an analyst, however, is - or should be - a different job. Mind, I don't know much about how advanced analytics are in football, but on baseball teams that are all in on analytics, analysts pick and advise the players, tell the managers how to use them, and outline general strategy. The managers do what they are told within limited discretion; the amount differs from team to team. I've never heard that it works this way in football. If you have a head coach with an analytical bent - Paul, for instance - you can see something like the kind of analysis you see in baseball. But most coaches want to run the whole show and pay attention to their assistants, kinda. The analysts are there to help with recruiting, the only area of football I can see where analysis is heavily used.

Obviously, I should look into this further. Right now, I'm going on speculation based on what I see. That's always dangerous.

What an analyst IS isn't well defined by the NCAA, but they aren't assistant coaches. They can talk to the coaches, they can break down film, but they can't coach the players. Even talking to the players can be a no-no, unless it's "good effort" or "nice haircut". It's one of the reasons that Nebraska is looking at NCAA sanctions (yes, they still exist).

Meet the Football Guru Who Helps Guide Alabama (and Michigan and Georgia ...)

For the past two decades, Saban and Pete Jenkins have been connected by their shared vision of a bruising game. Some might say Jenkins is Bama’s secret weapon.

www.si.com

What are college football 'analysts' and what are they allowed to do?

The NCAA is investigating Nebraska for potentially improper use of an analyst. What role do analysts serve on a college coaching staff? And what aren't they allowed to do?

omaha.com

NCAA investigation into Husker football surfaces 10 days before season opener

An NCAA investigation into Nebraska football surfaced 10 days before the season opener. At the center of that investigation are allegations of impermissible use of analysts during practices and games.

omaha.com

 

[g0lftime]

What an analyst IS isn't well defined by the NCAA, but they aren't assistant coaches. They can talk to the coaches, they can break down film, but they can't coach the players. Even talking to the players can be a no-no, unless it's "good effort" or "nice haircut". It's one of the reasons that Nebraska is looking at NCAA sanctions (yes, they still exist).

Meet the Football Guru Who Helps Guide Alabama (and Michigan and Georgia ...)

For the past two decades, Saban and Pete Jenkins have been connected by their shared vision of a bruising game. Some might say Jenkins is Bama’s secret weapon.

www.si.com

What are college football 'analysts' and what are they allowed to do?

The NCAA is investigating Nebraska for potentially improper use of an analyst. What role do analysts serve on a college coaching staff? And what aren't they allowed to do?

omaha.com

NCAA investigation into Husker football surfaces 10 days before season opener

An NCAA investigation into Nebraska football surfaced 10 days before the season opener. At the center of that investigation are allegations of impermissible use of analysts during practices and games.

omaha.com

Fedora had hired an ex coach as an analyst at UNC. They are not suppose to actually coach players. Well the local Durham paper published a picture of a practice and guess what? The analyst was right in the middle of the practice with the players. He was forced to remove him from the staff. If it hadn't been for that picture in the paper who knows? My guess is it goes on more than one would think.

 

[rodandanga]

Fedora had hired an ex coach as an analyst at UNC. They are not suppose to actually coach players. Well the local Durham paper published a picture of a practice and guess what? The analyst was right in the middle of the practice with the players. He was forced to remove him from the staff. If it hadn't been for that picture in the paper who knows? My guess is it goes on more than one would think.

Unless compliance comes to practice, which is rare, analyst do whatever the coach wants. It's probably one of the least enforced NCAA rules.

 

[takethepoints]

What an analyst IS isn't well defined by the NCAA, but they aren't assistant coaches. They can talk to the coaches, they can break down film, but they can't coach the players. Even talking to the players can be a no-no, unless it's "good effort" or "nice haircut". It's one of the reasons that Nebraska is looking at NCAA sanctions (yes, they still exist).

Meet the Football Guru Who Helps Guide Alabama (and Michigan and Georgia ...)

For the past two decades, Saban and Pete Jenkins have been connected by their shared vision of a bruising game. Some might say Jenkins is Bama’s secret weapon.

www.si.com

What are college football 'analysts' and what are they allowed to do?

The NCAA is investigating Nebraska for potentially improper use of an analyst. What role do analysts serve on a college coaching staff? And what aren't they allowed to do?

omaha.com

NCAA investigation into Husker football surfaces 10 days before season opener

An NCAA investigation into Nebraska football surfaced 10 days before the season opener. At the center of that investigation are allegations of impermissible use of analysts during practices and games.

omaha.com

I thought that was the case, but Jacket seemed sure of himself on this so I let it pass. Still, I bet this is a very difficult rule to enforce, except for the usual suspects. But that can work.

One of my favorite anecdotes is about a Brit lord who headed a Quango (quasi-autonomous government organization). A friend of his asked him how the sporadic enforcement of regs he used could work. He replied, "I look on myself like a competitor in the javelin at a track meet. Usually I throw the spear right down the field, but occasionally I throw a spear into the stands and pin someone to his seat. You'd be surprised how much attention the spectators pay to my throws after I do that a few times." That's the NCAA all over, or was until they chickened out of enforcing the regs on schools who could cripple the organization if they left. An SMU or two is what is needed now.

 

[GTpdm]

Fedora had hired an ex coach as an analyst at UNC. They are not suppose to actually coach players. Well the local Durham paper published a picture of a practice and guess what? The analyst was right in the middle of the practice with the players. He was forced to remove him from the staff. If it hadn't been for that picture in the paper who knows? My guess is it goes on more than one would think.

Must have been photoshopped...we all know the Carolina athletic program would never cheat...

 

[Tech Lawyer]

Coach Marco Coleman is a great Tech man and a wonderful role model. That being said, contrary to many on this board I thought his unit underperformed. Jordan Dominic has the ability to get 6-8 sacks for instance. His sophomore year his pressure rate was one of the highest in the country. I didn't see the DEs get any separation or penetration all year.

 

[TooTall]

Coach Marco Coleman is a great Tech man and a wonderful role model. That being said, contrary to many on this board I thought his unit underperformed. Jordan Dominic has the ability to get 6-8 sacks for instance. His sophomore year his pressure rate was one of the highest in the country. I didn't see the DEs get any separation or penetration all year.

Have you never read this message board before? Folks criticize a position group all season. Then, when a player or coach from that position group leave, its a reflection that the program is in the toilet swimming with mr hanky, because that was the best player or coach in the team.

 

[BuzzStone]

Have you never read this message board before? Folks criticize a position group all season. Then, when a player or coach from that position group leave, its a reflection that the program is in the toilet swimming with mr hanky, because that was the best player or coach in the team.

That was true for Gibbs/Choice