Marco Coleman to Sparty?

Northeast Stinger

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Saban can stock up on ex head NFL and College coaches and hire them as analysts. kirby now has muschamp and bobo as analysts. Who are Tech’s analysts? Our coaches have too much on their plates and the fans just bash away at these guys who work 80 hours a week. The big teams have so much support staff to help with game planning , scouting, recruiting, etc.
This has been the issue at Tech for quite awhile. I read an article maybe 10 years ago that said Alabama had over 30 people just to break down and analyze film. I’m sure some of these were students but they had staff people in charge of the film processing.
 

alagold

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Collins was the 'big money' donors choice. They were the ones that wanted to move away from the 3O and were the ones providing the money to make the hire we made.

The big boosters may oust TStan eventually, but if they do it is largely to cover for their own complicity with the hire of the current staff.
It may play out at the end of next yr that BOTH Collins and Pastner will be on the VERY hot seat.I wonder what "the money" does then?
 

takethepoints

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Saban can stock up on ex head NFL and College coaches and hire them as analysts. kirby now has muschamp and bobo as analysts. Who are Tech’s analysts? Our coaches have too much on their plates and the fans just bash away at these guys who work 80 hours a week. The big teams have so much support staff to help with game planning , scouting, recruiting, etc.
I know this is true, but I question the premise. It's like hiring a new doctor, something I've had to do recently.

Who's the better choice: an experienced coach who has lost a senior position or a new kid who's up on the best new knowledge? We settled on the new kid as our doctor. Somebody recently out of residency has enough experience to take on the usual complaints and enough new knowledge to address new ones. Kirby obviously thinks it's a good idea to take on failed head coaches as analysts. Personally, I'd rather have someone who has a more analytical cast of mind and some experience. Kirby is thinking like the old scouts in Moneyball; all that experience counts. But, in Muschamp and Bobo's cases, that experience didn't amount to much but a long career built around an old boy net rather then results.

So, yeah, I'd use students/GAs as analysts, provided they showed some analytical chops. And I wouldn't worry too much about it.
 

LawTalkin Jacket

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342
I imagine Coach Coleman is getting a hefty raise and certainly moving to a winning program. I wonder what he is getting money-wise? If its $750k or so, I would have liked to know that GT offered to match that (even if it would be more embarrassing for him to leave for the same money). if he were leaving for a DC job, that would be different, but leaving your alma mater for MSU for the same job is one thing if its over money but another if he thinks ship is sinking. I also presume he is wealthy after 13 years in nfl, so is money driving him or does he have head coach aspirations? where ken seguira with the story and all the answers?
 

JacketOff

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2,953
I know this is true, but I question the premise. It's like hiring a new doctor, something I've had to do recently.

Who's the better choice: an experienced coach who has lost a senior position or a new kid who's up on the best new knowledge? We settled on the new kid as our doctor. Somebody recently out of residency has enough experience to take on the usual complaints and enough new knowledge to address new ones. Kirby obviously thinks it's a good idea to take on failed head coaches as analysts. Personally, I'd rather have someone who has a more analytical cast of mind and some experience. Kirby is thinking like the old scouts in Moneyball; all that experience counts. But, in Muschamp and Bobo's cases, that experience didn't amount to much but a long career built around an old boy net rather then results.

So, yeah, I'd use students/GAs as analysts, provided they showed some analytical chops. And I wouldn't worry too much about it.
This analogy doesn’t really work because in your scenario, there’s only one position to be filled. Bama and UGA don’t have to choose either/or because they can just take both. Those “analysts” are still heavily involved with practice and film study, they just can’t be on field coaches during the games.

Why would you not want as much experience and game day knowledge as you can possibly get? It’s obvious that the system works given the success of the programs that are able to, and do use it. The former coaches are likely to be much more effective at, ya know, coaching the players involved with their analysis than some random student or GA, no matter how much analytical knowledge they have. Add in the fact that you can hire both former coaches and up and coming analytical nerds and you have a perfect storm. Don’t be surprised if CGC gets fired and immediately jumps into an analyst role with one of the big boy schools. It’s exactly what Butch Jones did, along with Muschamp.
 

sgreer

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
402
I know this is true, but I question the premise. It's like hiring a new doctor, something I've had to do recently.

Who's the better choice: an experienced coach who has lost a senior position or a new kid who's up on the best new knowledge? We settled on the new kid as our doctor. Somebody recently out of residency has enough experience to take on the usual complaints and enough new knowledge to address new ones. Kirby obviously thinks it's a good idea to take on failed head coaches as analysts. Personally, I'd rather have someone who has a more analytical cast of mind and some experience. Kirby is thinking like the old scouts in Moneyball; all that experience counts. But, in Muschamp and Bobo's cases, that experience didn't amount to much but a long career built around an old boy net rather then results.

So, yeah, I'd use students/GAs as analysts, provided they showed some analytical chops. And I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Interesting comparison with a doctor- so far Collins has not been able to repair the damage. I would like to see him have equal to more resources than everyone else in the ACC and then make the final call about his coaching/recruiting.
 

sgreer

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
402
It may play out at the end of next yr that BOTH Collins and Pastner will be on the VERY hot seat.I wonder what "the money" does then?
I bet those empty seats at the football/basketball games are currently costing Tech a lot. I would rather see the current coaches get more support to help get an advantage over competition than just firing them and crossing fingers on the next hire.
 

bobongo

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I bet those empty seats at the football/basketball games are currently costing Tech a lot. I would rather see the current coaches get more support to help get an advantage over competition than just firing them and crossing fingers on the next hire.
I would like to have seen the current one get a new DC for Christmas, whether he wants one or not.
 

BleedGoldNWhite21

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I hope you are 100% correct about this in bold. :)

I can’t say I’m fortune to know the money that well, but the same source that told me about Gibbs a few months before it happened has told me that the attitude has “greatly changed” after UGA won the MNC and that a lot of people “feel embarrassed”. I don’t know why the 9-25 record wasn’t enough to be embarrassed, but our rival winning the championship was, but whatever. As long as the mindset is changing.
 

Techster

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Do you know the names of the others who the big money donors chose collins over?

The search was flawed from the start. There's a lot of posts on this messageboard that discusses how the coaching search unfolded. Suffice it to say, the process left a LOT to be desired, and put GT in this mess we're currently in.
 

takethepoints

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This analogy doesn’t really work because in your scenario, there’s only one position to be filled. Bama and UGA don’t have to choose either/or because they can just take both. Those “analysts” are still heavily involved with practice and film study, they just can’t be on field coaches during the games.

Why would you not want as much experience and game day knowledge as you can possibly get? It’s obvious that the system works given the success of the programs that are able to, and do use it. The former coaches are likely to be much more effective at, ya know, coaching the players involved with their analysis than some random student or GA, no matter how much analytical knowledge they have. Add in the fact that you can hire both former coaches and up and coming analytical nerds and you have a perfect storm. Don’t be surprised if CGC gets fired and immediately jumps into an analyst role with one of the big boy schools. It’s exactly what Butch Jones did, along with Muschamp.
Are they? More effective, that is? Personally, I doubt it and I can fall back on their records for support. Now, if you can - and, as you point out, Bama can - hire both former coaches and "analytical nerds" then you might as well. Problem = I've never seen an analysis of what mix of assistants/analysts works best and delivers the best results. The idea that experience and game day knowledge accumulated by a coach with a losing record is what you want doesn't impress me. Yet another way that football shows how far behind baseball ion analytics it is.
 

Bennett

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I can’t say I’m fortune to know the money that well, but the same source that told me about Gibbs a few months before it happened has told me that the attitude has “greatly changed” after UGA won the MNC and that a lot of people “feel embarrassed”. I don’t know why the 9-25 record wasn’t enough to be embarrassed, but our rival winning the championship was, but whatever. As long as the mindset is changing.
I pray this is true and have thought about this. Either Tech gives a **** about sports and is willing to do what it takes to be competitive or they are not and we will fade off into the abyss. When UGA won the title i told my buddies that hopefully that lit a fire under some ppls assess at Tech. If it didn’t then we have a problem
 

JacketOff

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Are they? More effective, that is? Personally, I doubt it and I can fall back on their records for support. Now, if you can - and, as you point out, Bama can - hire both former coaches and "analytical nerds" then you might as well. Problem = I've never seen an analysis of what mix of assistants/analysts works best and delivers the best results. The idea that experience and game day knowledge accumulated by a coach with a losing record is what you want doesn't impress me. Yet another way that football shows how far behind baseball ion analytics it is.
Just because somebody has a losing record as a head coach doesn’t mean they’re a bad coach, just a bad head coach. A head coach has a ton more responsibilities than even coordinators, and sometimes even great coaches and coordinators aren’t prepared or able to do all the things asked of them as head coaches. They also weren’t just handed a head coaching job without working their way up the ladder either. Most of the time for a decade+. It’s not like all of them have to be former head coaches either. There are plenty of former coordinators and position coaches that go into analyst positions for big schools. Are coaches more effective at conveying a message to players than someone who’s only job is to study analytics and film? Well almost assuredly everytime. There’s a reason why the analysts for baseball teams aren’t in the dugout or on the field during spring training with players. It’s because they understand the information, but likely have no idea how to convey their message. That’s why coaches are necessary. And the more coaches you can get on your analytical team, the better off you’ll be as long as you have enough actual data miners and data analysts.

Alabama had 11 full time analysts last year. 4 of them have coached in D1 and/or the NFL. Among them were a former TE coach for the Texans, and a DC for Pitt and UCF, with other stops at P5 schools along the way.
 

Pointer

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Just because somebody has a losing record as a head coach doesn’t mean they’re a bad coach, just a bad head coach. A head coach has a ton more responsibilities than even coordinators, and sometimes even great coaches and coordinators aren’t prepared or able to do all the things asked of them as head coaches. They also weren’t just handed a head coaching job without working their way up the ladder either. Most of the time for a decade+. It’s not like all of them have to be former head coaches either. There are plenty of former coordinators and position coaches that go into analyst positions for big schools. Are coaches more effective at conveying a message to players than someone who’s only job is to study analytics and film? Well almost assuredly everytime. There’s a reason why the analysts for baseball teams aren’t in the dugout or on the field during spring training with players. It’s because they understand the information, but likely have no idea how to convey their message. That’s why coaches are necessary. And the more coaches you can get on your analytical team, the better off you’ll be as long as you have enough actual data miners and data analysts.

Alabama had 11 full time analysts last year. 4 of them have coached in D1 and/or the NFL. Among them were a former TE coach for the Texans, and a DC for Pitt and UCF, with other stops at P5 schools along the way.
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LongforDodd

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The search was flawed from the start. There's a lot of posts on this messageboard that discusses how the coaching search unfolded. Suffice it to say, the process left a LOT to be desired, and put GT in this mess we're currently in.
Yes, I've read that here but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure who we could have had, who we reached out to, who reached out to us and therefore who we passed on.
 
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