Making 3 Star Recruits into 5 Star Athletes

[Truth]

http://ramblinwreck.com/ai2020-toddcast/

So what do you guys think about Todd Stansbury's plan to use "science, technology, innovation, nutrition, and the way we train" to develop athletes, admitting that we probably will not get too many 5 star recruits at Ga Tech?
Obviously recruiting 4 and 5 stars leads to a better chance for success, but I am beginning to buy into his hype that recruiting the guys with the right potential then developing them can make it happen. I remind you that we have beaten teams with a bunch of 4 stars. (Miami?)
Or, do we just believe it is more snake oil to convince us to give money to GTAA?

 

[MikeJackets1967]

GT will make due with 2-3 star recruits and the occasional 4 star recruit just like they've pretty much always had to do. I don't think you can transform a 2-3 star player into a player with 5 star talent.

 

[UgaBlows]

Are bionic implants legal with the ncaa?

 

[Lavoisier]

You can do it with great S&C program. The S&C coach is arguably the most important after the HC as he spends the entire off season with the players while the rest of the coaching staff isn't allowed to be in contact until camp. Technology or science or whatever isn't going to reinvent the wheel.

 

[RedPete]

...The S&C coach is arguably the most important after the HC as he spends the entire off season with the players while the rest of the coaching staff isn't allowed to be in contact until camp....

Indeed. I saw a piece about Alabama’s S&C coach and how Nick Saban put highest priority on getting the best guy in the biz. (Really loud constant energy dude.) Saban even overpaid to make sure he didn’t leave with Smart.
Here’s an article: https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-alabama-will-pay-like-a-head-coach/77322982/

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I always felt like we are missing the biggest opportunity here. And it is not Strength and Conditioning. You always here about players being out of position or not recognizing the offense or defense. Listening to Ibeeballing talking about what the LB's should be seeing and reacting to, why dont we have a virtual way to give them LOTs and LOTs of reps. Track how quickly the recognize and react to what they should do. There is no reason why you cant do this for every position. Reducing mistakes in games gets you so much closer to where the difference between a 4 and 5 star is not that important (most of the times)

 

[YJMD]

I am no expert in this stuff, but I can hardly imagine that the average S&C program actually knows how to deliver the best results on the field. I think a well-designed program that is actually scientific would be huge, although not by any means an actual replacement for 5* recruits. I do think, though, it could be a big boon for recruiting.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

I am no expert in this stuff, but I can hardly imagine that the average S&C program actually knows how to deliver the best results on the field. I think a well-designed program that is actually scientific would be huge, although not by any means an actual replacement for 5* recruits. I do think, though, it could be a big boon for recruiting.

Having a lousy S&C Coach can really hurt you. Just look at Tennessee 2015-2017 with Botch Jones when the team was always decimated with injuries on defense every season.

 

[Truth]

GT will make due with 2-3 star recruits and the occasional 4 star recruit just like they've pretty much always had to do. I don't think you can transform a 2-3 star player into a player with 5 star talent.

I agree that you cannot transform a 2 star athlete to a 5 star, but transforming a 2 star football player to a 5 star player might be! And 18 year old guys are neither fully developed physically nor mentally. So I think it is a viable strategy as long as all the components are there: recruiting players that are coach-able, who will work their asses off, and who have great character. Then having a stellar program and facilities. We will not win every game every year, but we will be competitive in our league. Other than the last several years, we have been highly competitive, and I believe with good leadership from the AD we will be again.

 

[Cam]

Malik Rivera is a guy who didn't have any college football offers (I can't even find a high school profile) and he is leading our team in tackles. He's elevated himself above a lot of guys who are 4* players at the same position. He does so because he is experienced and knows the defensive system really well. Basically a great example of the "get old, stay old" strategy. We've seen a number of 2* players excel on our team over the years and many have started this season (Jalen Camp, Clinton Lynch, Jahaziel Lee, Kenny Cooper, Desmond Branch, and Tariq Carpenter). I think we have done a great job of raising the floor of our players, but I would like to see more of them reach their ceiling. Especially the higher potential guys that we've recruited in recent years.

 

[33jacket]

Phil wheeler. Mike cox. Adamm oliver. Vance walker. Gary guyton. Chris reis. Dawan landry. Andrew gardner. Wrotto. List goes on and on. We have transformed alot of 2 star and low 3 star guys to nfl players in the past. Why. It was great scouting and evaluating and a solid system. Some reason what we did then worked better than now.

We have sucked to high heavens on this under paul. Very few nfl guys have developed from our avg recruiting. We have always had avg recruiting at tech. For some reason it seems top end development has really tailed off. Its alot of things that add up to this. Scouting. Development. Kids in right system. S&c. Etc etc.

Not sure i have the answer. Its complicated. But its clear this has tailed off

 

[inGTwetrust]

Ibee could speak more to this, but I think overhauling our S&C staff this off-season is a must. The amount of guys that physically look almost identical to their freshman years as they do a senior is a problem.

 

[GTRambler]

Ibee could speak more to this, but I think overhauling our S&C staff this off-season is a must. The amount of guys that physically look almost identical to their freshman years as they do a senior is a problem.

Not sure about this. I do know that the GT S&C staff keeps a record of the measurables (bench press, squat, 40-yard time, etc.) on each individual player from the first day he steps on campus to the day he leaves.

Because of genetics, some players might look no different as a freshman compared to as a senior. However, these types may indeed have much better strength and improvements in other measurables by the time they leave as seniors.

 

[Boomergump]

Having an eye for talent is way more important than recruiting stars, or stars ratings if you will. Character, intelligence and work ethic matters more than you may think.

Strength is important but over-rated in a way. Being really strong will not make you great athlete. However, great athletes can benefit immensely from increasing strength.

Recruiting 5 stars may be safer than not, but it still isn't that safe. Programs like Bama make more hay by running off their failed 5 star recruits and recycling them, than they do signing them, if that makes sense.

I am not the least bit concerned with signing higher "rated" classes. What I AM concerned about is getting more of the players that our staff has targeted as good fits for us and expanding the geographical area we cover in search of the right kids. There are a ton of really really good athletes out there, many of them under-rated or under appreciated. Chan was good at spotting them. Many kids with a ton of potential are simply not rated highly because they haven't matured as quickly as others, have been injured, or simply didn't live or play in a high profile area or system. Having a more robust and expansive recruiting machine can help find those type of kids.

We just saw Calvin Johnson on the sideline being interviewed and getting recognized recently. Think back to his recruitment and star rating. In my recollection, he was a 4 star. Four!!!! When you think about what has happened with him in terms of his college and pro career and then think about his physical abilities compared to the rest of the CFB (or pro) WR landscape, how could any single WR prospect have been rated ahead of him? Honestly!! Yet he was a four star. GT gets four stars now and again. What set Calvin apart was work ethic, core values, and character IN COMBINATION WITH great physical abilities. Maybe he wasn't as highly rated because of where he played or how mature he was at the time. Whatever. He is just one example. Can we please stop hyperventilating about class rank as a measure of recruiting success and start focusing on the right things?

 

[Animal02]

Having an eye for talent is way more important than recruiting stars, or stars ratings if you will. Character, intelligence and work ethic matters more than you may think.

Strength is important but over-rated in a way. Being really strong will not make you great athlete. However, great athletes can benefit immensely from increasing strength.

Recruiting 5 stars may be safer than not, but it still isn't that safe. Programs like Bama make more hay by running off their failed 5 star recruits and recycling them, than they do signing them, if that makes sense.

I am not the least bit concerned with signing higher "rated" classes. What I AM concerned about is getting more of the players that our staff has targeted as good fits for us and expanding the geographical area we cover in search of the right kids. There are a ton of really really good athletes out there, many of them under-rated or under appreciated. Chan was good at spotting them. Many kids with a ton of potential are simply not rated highly because they haven't matured as quickly as others, have been injured, or simply didn't live or play in a high profile area or system. Having a more robust and expansive recruiting machine can help find those type of kids.

We just saw Calvin Johnson on the sideline being interviewed and getting recognized recently. Think back to his recruitment and star rating. In my recollection, he was a 4 star. Four!!!! When you think about what has happened with him in terms of his college and pro career and then think about his physical abilities compared to the rest of the CFB (or pro) WR landscape, how could any single WR prospect have been rated ahead of him? Honestly!! Yet he was a four star. GT gets four stars now and again. What set Calvin apart was work ethic, core values, and character IN COMBINATION WITH great physical abilities. Maybe he wasn't as highly rated because of where he played or how mature he was at the time. Whatever. He is just one example. Can we please stop hyperventilating about class rank as a measure of recruiting success and start focusing on the right things?

Calvin is alos a smart guy as well. You are spot on about expanding recruiting.....I have no doubt there are plenty of overlooked high quality candidates at smaller private schools and academies that do not get the publicity of the bigger schools.

 

[GSOJacket]

If I recall correctly, Shaq Mason was a 2 star, and posters on various Tech sites were asking why we wasted a scholarship on him. I believe PJ answered that he cleaned everybody's clock during one of our HS player camps.

 

[Truth]

Well, back to my original point. TS says we need to put the $$ into recruiting and facilities, and from the comparisons I have see, that seems like a place we are way behind the contenders in our league.
I don’t think we will be much better than we are even if we had the perfect mashup of Mick and Dabo unless we fix the infrastructure. And I still haven’t heard a legit suggestion of a coach who can make the TS plan work better besides ol CPJ hisself. TS has made his strategy known, and the CPJ haters better get used to it. I would say it is our only hope at this point.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

If I recall correctly, Shaq Mason was a 2 star, and posters on various Tech sites were asking why we wasted a scholarship on him. I believe PJ answered that he cleaned everybody's clock during one of our HS player camps.

Thar shows that head coaches and their staffs know more about talent and recruiting than your average football fan

 

[Boaty1]

Well, back to my original point. TS says we need to put the $$ into recruiting and facilities, and from the comparisons I have see, that seems like a place we are way behind the contenders in our league.
I don’t think we will be much better than we are even if we had the perfect mashup of Mick and Dabo unless we fix the infrastructure. And I still haven’t heard a legit suggestion of a coach who can make the TS plan work better besides ol CPJ hisself. TS has made his strategy known, and the CPJ haters better get used to it. I would say it is our only hope at this point.

I wonder if you even think through your post before you type it?

If you were to ask the question of what coach could do better to Clemson fans in 08, and received a response of Dabo Swinney you and everyone else would have laughed.

This same question was posed when Gailey was on the hot seat as well. It’s just a silly argument.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Phil wheeler. Mike cox. Adamm oliver. Vance walker. Gary guyton. Chris reis. Dawan landry. Andrew gardner. Wrotto. List goes on and on. We have transformed alot of 2 star and low 3 star guys to nfl players in the past. Why. It was great scouting and evaluating and a solid system. Some reason what we did then worked better than now.

We have sucked to high heavens on this under paul. Very few nfl guys have developed from our avg recruiting. We have always had avg recruiting at tech. For some reason it seems top end development has really tailed off. Its alot of things that add up to this. Scouting. Development. Kids in right system. S&c. Etc etc.

Not sure i have the answer. Its complicated. But its clear this has tailed off

It is hard to believe that Phillip Wheeler and Dawan Landry were three star players out of high school. They looked to be a tad better than that. I kind of question Wrotto as well but that was an era at the beginning of the whole recruiting saga that came of age in the late 1990s. One thing is for sure all of those players improved markedly from when they were freshmen. All of them became very good players for us especially the linebackers and defensive backs.