Loyola Chicago (8) vs. Georgia Tech (9), Friday, 4pm ET, TBS

vadimivich

Georgia Tech Fan
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Gotta stand up for my man Krut tho. Yeah, he looks like a guy who drives a minivan and does your taxes but he is sneaky athletic and sneaky strong. The man has the hands of a WR and feet of a ballerina. In all seriousness, anyone who says he doesn't like to bang down low hasn't watched Loyola play. He directs the offense at the elbow or top of the key but he can bang down low with the best of them, and is big enough to stand people up on defense. He more than held his own against Darnell Brody on Drake, who's an absolute monster (6-10, 275).

No question about Krutwig as an offensive player, he reminds me a bit of a poor man's Nikola Jokic. Looks much less quick than he is, partly because he's so decisive and smart with each movement and has great feet. As for strength, GT isn't a team with much size that likes to bang ... so no doubt he'll be fine in that area. He'll get his on the offensive end, he's got a great game

What I cannot imagine he'll handle well is trying to deal with Wright going downhill - either from PNR action or simply faced up - or in short areas with the ball on the glass. Wright is one of the best athletes in college basketball and he's eaten up basically every big he's faced who has had to deal with him. No slight to the MVC, which is a very good basketball league, but Krut hasn't seen too many 6'9" guys move like Wright in his career. Wright isn't quite the same type of player as Moe Wagner, but he's a similar level athlete and I remember Wagner basically annihilating Krutwig in the Final Four (24 & 15), he just couldn't stay with his quickness.

For GT to win, Wright is going to have to have a big day. Say ... 18 & 11 and get Krutwig in a bit of foul trouble by the early 2nd half.
 

Northeast Stinger

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I watched the game vs Valpo and here are my thoughts.

First off, I wouldn't try to take too much away from any one game and in particular I don't think this was one of their better performances by any stretch. I wish I could find the full game against Drake in the conference championship, but I can only fight the highlights (extensive highlights but hard to judge too even from that).

Offense - I wasn't overly impressed. Like I said, I don't want to take too much away from one game and they did seem flat compared to the other times Ive managed to catch them. Not bad, but not particularly noteworthy. Krutwig is a smart player and capable of both scoring and facilitating but it feels like he is often in one or the other mode. If he's at the top of the key it doesn't look like he's thinking about scoring much at all. Doesn't really appear to look for the jumper from there nor does he seem that interested in trying to drive. You do need to make sure you deal with him in a roll to the basket position though because if Moses gets distracted by a dribble handoff a lob over the top is something we can see. Not dissimilar to Duke, although I doubt Krutwig will throw it down like Williams, but a layup and dunk are both worth 2. In the post he's a bit more balanced as even if he's looking to score he also usually has an eye out to see if help is coming and can pass out of the post. Otherwise they seem to have solid players capable of helping score, but not really carrying the load. If I had to chose someone else it might be Norris to worry about. Obviously on any given night a player can get hot but you can't really prepare for that type of thing. They can punish bad defense, but against better defenses I do think they will struggle some.

I would say our best bet on defense is to actually avoid the zone to start. It just invites them to do what they want to do anyways with Kurtwig facilitating from the high post. Go man, and don't help Moses. Try to limit Krutwig's playmaking ability by not giving good passing opportunities, and dare him to try and carry the load by scoring against Moses down low. If he can you adjust after. But my guess is he'll be able to score some but I'm not sure it'll be enough to force us to bring extra help. It will come down to how Moses defends him before getting the ball. If Krutwig consistently gets good position down low, which he might with how he can use his 255 lb frame, he may be able to carry the load. However Krutwig might be too smart at times, in the sense that if he gets the ball too far pushed out he might just go straight into pass mode because he recognizes the situation as being unfavorable. That's more a guess from how he appears to approach the game though. So Moses needs to battle and force him to get the ball further away.

Defensively though is a different story. They are extremely well coached and you can see the defensive principles that go into their defense and they are consistent about it. I'm not convinced they are actually the absolute best defensive team in the country, but I think they have a good argument for being the best defensive team relative to talent. I do think they might be vulnerable to more talented teams exploiting individual advantages. As good teams will do they will make adjustments, but adjustments will almost always come with a price and we'll need to be able to identify what that is. Fortunately we've been pretty good this year with adjustments, and a very experienced group should help with that.

So to that end I would hope that we try and focus the ball early to Moses, both down low, but also more extended out in iso situations to one side or the other. See how Krutwig will try to defend a faced up Moses. If he extends out then Moses can try to go around him and maybe pick up some fouls or some early slams. If he sags off, I hope Moses wouldn't settle, but instead would take a hard dribble or two right at him and then elevate straight up. It wouldn't surprise me to see Loyola dig down to him right from the get go, and if they do, put Devoe behind Moses and look for chances to drift to the corner if they dig too hard. If this were even last year I'd be worried about Moses turning it over trying to force the issue but he's much improved this year.

Otherwise, they have two really good wing defenders in Williamson and Uguak. The former was conference defensive player of the year, and the latter has the size, athleticism, and, like everyone else, coaching to be really good. I expect them to try and keep Williamson on Jose and Uguak on Usher. That is another reason I would have Mike be the guy behind Moses because his defender is likely to be someone who is not one of them, and so less likely to make a play and/or more likely to lose track of Devoe to try and make one. Usher vs Uguak will be fun to watch, and I think if they stick to that it'll be hard for Usher to make too big an impact, in the half court. But if they ever switch off or when Uguak sits, we should hunt that matchup as I think Ushers size, athleticism, and somewhat new found ability to finish near the rim (not at the rim, near it) will be useful. Jose vs Williamson will be a fun battle. I'm reminded of that quote from Jose concerning how he wanted to go find whoever won the dPoY (if it wasn't him) and score on them. It'll be fun to see that match up on both ends.

lastly, here is my hot take. Kyle Sturdivant sets a new career high this game. The 5th player, other than Jose, Mike, Ush, and Moses, is likely to get the weakest individual perimeter defender on the court from them, and I think Kyle has the ability to take that type of player off the dribble, and without a real rim protecting presence, and likely reluctance of Krutwig to leave Moses, it should leave opportunities for Kyle to finish right at the rim. Now, is it bold to predict someone who has scored in double digits just twice in his career will go for 15+ against the statistical best defensive team? Absolutely. But hot takes need to be spicy.
From what you say, my layman’s take is that we need to crash the boards and that being more athletic we will be able to react faster to opportunities for dishing as well as second chances off of rebounds.
 

Deleted member 2897

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Here is the Jay Bilas analysis and pick.
(certainly seems like the loyola portion is missing proper citations on his sources)


No. 8 Loyola Chicago Ramblers vs. No. 9 Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
This is the most compelling of the No. 8 vs. No. 9 games -- by far. This is the Ramblers' first NCAA appearance since reaching the Final Four in 2018 as an 11-seed. This team is actually better defensively, at least according to the metrics. Loyola is the No. 1-ranked defense in the nation from an efficiency standpoint; the Ramblers are very together and difficult to score upon. That leads to wins, and Loyola has 21 in its past 23 games. Possessions are long, and the Ramblers defend without fouling to force tough 2s. Essentially, Porter Moser has made the calculation that Loyola's defense cannot take away everything, so he takes away the things that hurt most: 3-point shots. Loyola does not over-help to get into rotation or scramble. If it does, it will not come off shooters to help on drivers taking tough 2-point shots. Why allow a pass to an open 3-point shooter when you can force a midrange jumper off the bounce while reaching for the lights? Plus, Loyola is a talking defense, one that communicates everything as if it were a choreographed dance. Cameron Krutwig is the loud, order-barking voice behind the Loyola defense, while Lucas Williamson and Aher Uguak are the super-talented and lengthy wings who can guard anyone. Williamson is the best overall defender. He is long, athletic and does not melt on screens. Uguak can switch and guard anyone on the floor. Krutwig has good hands and gets strips but can be compromised when guarding pick-and-roll actions. Krutwig is the key to this team. He is the facilitator on both offense and defense. A great passer, Krutwig is the player Moser runs his 5-out offense through. Krutwig just knows how to play. The harmonica-playing big man has put up numbers in the Missouri Valley Conference that only Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson and Hersey Hawkins can match. One of the hottest teams in a relatively weak ACC, the Yellow Jackets won six straight games heading into the ACC tournament. With an incredible finish to his season, interior presence Moses Wright took home ACC Player of the Year honors, while teammate Jose Alvarado, of whom coach Josh Pastner says winning is more important than breathing, took home the ACC Defensive Player of the Year award. Wright was a sidekick to shot-blocking savant James Banks III in the past. He is now the center of attention. Georgia Tech mixes defenses, using hybrid zones and man. The Jackets are aggressive going for steals and blocked shots. The two early-season losses to mid-majors took attention away from Georgia Tech, but this team can still be a tough out. Alvarado is an incredible ball thief. Anything below the rim, it belongs to him.
Winner: Loyola Chicago

Gotta love it when a preview spends 75% of the discussion on only 1 team.

I also long for the day that the ACC isn't considered weak because North Carolina and Duke don't win the conference.
 

YlJacket

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Your prescription is similar to Sperber from HoopVision - he said in his video breakdown of Loyola defense "if I were a coach facing Loyola in the NCAA tourney, I'm putting Krutwig in PNR early and often." Our games from the last 2-3 weeks are all blending together in my head, so I don't recall the actual games/opponents... but there were a couple times recently where Pastner ran a ton of roll/replace - way more than usual. Pair that with Porter Moser's "dont help off corner shooters" philosophy and our roll/replace set, and it's not hard to envision what you are saying and what Sperber is saying and what Pastner has already done in a recent game or two. To incorporate lv20gt's point earlier in the thread, this approach would increase the likelihood of Bubba taking Khalid's minutes as a corner spot up shooter.

Note also that we now have 2 versions of roll/replace. All year we ran it starting with a ghost screen and shooting guard on the block ready to lift after the PNR. Recent games we have started with a horns setup and it leads into roll/replace. Same play, just different initial actions. I've been hoping all season Pastner has been saving a wrinkle or two for post-season variations on roll/replace.

Of course, no idea if any of this comes to fruition, but it is fun banter while waiting 4 more days.
Haven't read all the rest of the thread - but if you are going to run PNR with Devoe and Moses as your primary offense, we likely will need to sit Moore a lot this game. Otherwise the corner defender will have free reign to sag the middle and clog things. FSU was giving him engraved invitations to shoot that shot and he was 1-6 with no one in the zip code. Should see a lot of Bubba and Kyle to keep the lane clear.
 

GT_B

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Gotta love it when a preview spends 75% of the discussion on only 1 team.

I also long for the day that the ACC isn't considered weak because North Carolina and Duke don't win the conference.
I agree. Best thing we can do as a conference is win multiple games. If we have several ACC teams go far, then that will shut everyone up. At least until pre-season next year, when there will be another all big10 and big12 top 25
 

vadimivich

Georgia Tech Fan
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Gotta love it when a preview spends 75% of the discussion on only 1 team.

I also long for the day that the ACC isn't considered weak because North Carolina and Duke don't win the conference.

There might be just 2 ACC players picked in the entire first round of the NBA Draft, let alone the lottery.

The talent level across the board was really down this year in the ACC, not just at UNC and Duke. It's one of the lowest points in ACC talent that I can remember.
 

Northeast Stinger

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There might be just 2 ACC players picked in the entire first round of the NBA Draft, let alone the lottery.

The talent level across the board was really down this year in the ACC, not just at UNC and Duke. It's one of the lowest points in ACC talent that I can remember.
Was talent really that far down? Serious question. Just because someone isn’t ready for the NBA does not mean they don’t have serious talent. I think Duke especially underperformed this year but they were not the only team. Seemed several players just had trouble putting the pieces together with their team. Tech, on the other hand, was more than the sum of their parts with their team. Was coaching the difference? Chemistry?
 

yjfan

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Haven't read all the rest of the thread - but if you are going to run PNR with Devoe and Moses as your primary offense, we likely will need to sit Moore a lot this game. Otherwise the corner defender will have free reign to sag the middle and clog things. FSU was giving him engraved invitations to shoot that shot and he was 1-6 with no one in the zip code. Should see a lot of Bubba and Kyle to keep the lane clear.
Been saying I think bubba going to have a good game here
 

vadimivich

Georgia Tech Fan
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Was talent really that far down? Serious question. Just because someone isn’t ready for the NBA does not mean they don’t have serious talent. I think Duke especially underperformed this year but they were not the only team. Seemed several players just had trouble putting the pieces together with their team. Tech, on the other hand, was more than the sum of their parts with their team. Was coaching the difference? Chemistry?

Yeah, talent was just really, really down across the whole conference. A few bad recruiting classes, some misses and injuries and a couple of "reset" years for a few programs like Virginia (the group that dominated the ACC graduating/drafted and a new team taking their place) left the conference quite bereft of talent.

Look at the All-ACC teams ... there's almost certainly not a single player who will ever play in an NBA All-Star game, and very few I'd guess ever play in the NBA at all. Compared to normal All-ACC teams, that's crazy to say. For example - the 2018-19 season, every single guy on the First Team All-ACC is playing in the NBA and Zion is already an All-Star. 2 more from the 2nd Team and 2 more from the 3rd Team are also in the NBA.

17-18 had 6 first round draft picks. 16-17 had 10(!) including 2 All-Stars (Tatum & Mitchell).

This year is kind of an aberration in ACC history.
 

Deleted member 2897

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I agree. Best thing we can do as a conference is win multiple games. If we have several ACC teams go far, then that will shut everyone up. At least until pre-season next year, when there will be another all big10 and big12 top 25

I agree. The challenge is that our seeding is so bad that the majority of ACC teams are supposed to lose in round 1. Only 2 teams in our conference are supposed to win 2 games. And not a single ACC team should get past the sweet 16 if it goes according to seed. So we have to find a way to overperform and pull off some upsets.
 

ESPNjacket

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This year is kind of an aberration in ACC history.
To pick an extreme example in the other direction, using kenpom, the 2004 ACC had 7 out of 9 teams in the top 30.

This year there are 3 out of 15.

The ACC was farther apart from any other conference in rating in 2004 than the 5th place ACC is from the Big Ten in 2021.
 

Deleted member 2897

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To pick an extreme example in the other direction, using kenpom, the 2004 ACC had 7 out of 9 teams in the top 30.

This year there are 3 out of 15.

The ACC was farther apart from any other conference in rating in 2004 than the 5th place ACC is from the Big Ten in 2021.

Yes, there is clearly something in these models that isn't rational. There's no way 9 of the Big Ten teams are the top 13 in the country. We beat Florida State on a neutral court and dropped a position in the ratings. That cannot be logically explained.
 

vadimivich

Georgia Tech Fan
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To pick an extreme example in the other direction, using kenpom, the 2004 ACC had 7 out of 9 teams in the top 30.

This year there are 3 out of 15.

The ACC was farther apart from any other conference in rating in 2004 than the 5th place ACC is from the Big Ten in 2021.

2004 ACC was ridiculously loaded. 3rd Team All-ACC was Chris Paul, Jarrett Jack, Raymond Felton, Luol Deng and John Gilchrist.

That's um ... A LOT of talent.
 

YlJacket

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Yes, there is clearly something in these models that isn't rational. There's no way 9 of the Big Ten teams are the top 13 in the country. We beat Florida State on a neutral court and dropped a position in the ratings. That cannot be logically explained.
This isn't a logical/rational year. It is a combination of a real talent team deficiency for the ACC combined with weird rankings given the lack of interconference play - across the board.
 
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