Locker room issues?

[jojatk]

If it's still an issue in year 3, I don't think that the problem is the student athletes....

It was an issue in year 3 for Bobby Ross. They overcame it by not playing a bunch of the guys who were causing the problems. They knew who they were in year 1 and 2. They just didn’t have anybody else to replace them with until year 3. Maybe CGC should have done the same.

 

[sgreer]

@flea77, most of those who post here don't like those things either. If they did initially, the enthusiasm has certainly diminished in light of the last 3 years. I think it is quite possible that year 4 may wrap things up. A lot of our posters will be giddy when this happens. just like they were when Chan was fired or Paul retired.

However, I think your last sentence sums things up. If a change is made, whether this year or next, we will have treated the symptom. But the disease will remain. I don't think competiting for division champions in what may the worst division in college FB (in a conference whose champion didn't even go to the playoffs and lost to a MAC team iirc) will be enough to draw fans back or entice new fans or prevent beatdowns from the elite programs. It will placate us dwindling crazies who support the program I suppose but it won't be enough to fool the masses. By the masses I mean the people who don't attend or watch games, donate to the program, post on message boards, buy GT gear, etc.

And then if the new coach took the experienced talent at Tech and succeeded -he would turn that into a huge payday at a bigger school

 

[flea77]

@flea77, most of those who post here don't like those things either. If they did initially, the enthusiasm has certainly diminished in light of the last 3 years. I think it is quite possible that year 4 may wrap things up. A lot of our posters will be giddy when this happens. just like they were when Chan was fired or Paul retired.

However, I think your last sentence sums things up. If a change is made, whether this year or next, we will have treated the symptom. But the disease will remain. I don't think competiting for division champions in what may the worst division in college FB (in a conference whose champion didn't even go to the playoffs and lost to a MAC team iirc) will be enough to draw fans back or entice new fans or prevent beatdowns from the elite programs. It will placate us dwindling crazies who support the program I suppose but it won't be enough to fool the masses. By the masses I mean the people who don't attend or watch games, donate to the program, post on message boards, buy GT gear, etc.

Sadly, College football is now limited to a small # of teams that will compete for championships. It started w the crazy recruiting rankings, HS kids thinking the own the world before they ever take a snap in college. Now those kids and parents are only about the $$. Its over for all but maybe 5 schools who have the money to pay the players. Schools like GT, will never win another National title. Unless some GT fans pony up to pay the QB a mill and guarantee players 50K a year. GT lost one of their best players to Alabama. Alabama has deep pockets. College football is dead.

 

[bobongo]

And then if the new coach took the experienced talent at Tech and succeeded -he would turn that into a huge payday at a bigger school

If we got some good years out of him and a nice buyout at the end, I'd take that.

 

[Techster]

FWIW, there's always talk ex-coach's players being issues and not fully buying in. When Morgan Burnett/BayBay/Dwyer/Derrick Morgan declared for the draft, and other players exhausted their eligibility in 2009, there was a lot of "It's actually a good thing a lot of Gailey's players are leaving, now CPJ's players will control the locke rroom...Gailey's players never fully bought in...etc etc"

I'll take it all with a grain of salt. There's always a few guys who don't fully buy in, and there will always be guys who don't want to "move on" from how the coach recruited them did things. That's just par for the course for any program.

Players aren't dumb. If players weren't "buying in" after all the winning in 2008 and 2009, then what happened with the leftover players in 2010 when it was mainly CPJ's guys? 2011? IMO, just a few incidences that make it to the messageboards that fans misinterpret to their narrative.

When you have three seasons of 3 wins, it's much more going on than ex coach's players not buying in or causing issues...this isn't the NFL. College coaches can easily kick players off the team or isolate them if there are issues.

 

[Skeptic]

FWIW, there's always talk ex-coach's players being issues and not fully buying in. When Morgan Burnett/BayBay/Dwyer/Derrick Morgan declared for the draft, and other players exhausted their eligibility in 2009, there was a lot of "It's actually a good thing a lot of Gailey's players are leaving, now CPJ's players will control the locke rroom...Gailey's players never fully bought in...etc etc"

I'll take it all with a grain of salt. There's always a few guys who don't fully buy in, and there will always be guys who don't want to "move on" from how the coach recruited them did things. That's just par for the course for any program.

Players aren't dumb. If players weren't "buying in" after all the winning in 2008 and 2009, then what happened with the leftover players in 2010 when it was mainly CPJ's guys? 2011? IMO, just a few incidences that make it to the messageboards that fans misinterpret to their narrative.

When you have three seasons of 3 wins, it's much more going on than ex coach's players not buying in or causing issues...this isn't the NFL. College coaches can easily kick players off the team or isolate them if there are issues.

I dont know how dissent in the locker room can be avoided when the new coach has announced to the world that the old coach left him a load of trash to play with. I wouldn't be happy were it me.,

 

[forensicbuzz]

I dont know how dissent in the locker room can be avoided when the new coach has announced to the world that the old coach left him a load of trash to play with. I wouldn't be happy were it me.,

Yeah, that's not what he said and we all know it. Go ahead and continue with this revisionist history.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Yeah, that's not what he said and we all know it. Go ahead and continue with this revisionist history.

No, he didn’t use those words but he said things that if I were a player I would not like. He was pretty vicious to the offensive linemen especially. On here we could all be philosophical and analytical but these were real human beings we were talking about who were being told in so many words you are the reason we are not going to be able to win the first few years and the sooner we replace you the better. Student athletes at Tech are not dumb. They heard the press conferences and they knew who was being talked about.

I was embarrassed for them and a little ashamed that we all carried on with endless arguments about heights, weights and reach of players and whether or not they were real football players or just light weights who only knew how to throw their bodies at an opponent’s feet.

 

[lv20gt]

Yeah, that's not what he said and we all know it. Go ahead and continue with this revisionist history.

Never underestimate how thin skinned Johnson fans are.

 

[forensicbuzz]

No, he didn’t use those words but he said things that if I were a player I would not like. He was pretty vicious to the offensive linemen especially. On here we could all be philosophical and analytical but these were real human beings we were talking about who were being told in so many words you are the reason we are not going to be able to win the first few years and the sooner we replace you the better. Student athletes at Tech are not dumb. They heard the press conferences and they knew who was being talked about.

I was embarrassed for them and a little ashamed that we all carried on with endless arguments about heights, weights and reach of players and whether or not they were real football players or just light weights who only knew how to throw their bodies at an opponent’s feet.

And you weren’t in the team meetings and OL rooms with the coaches to hear what message was being shared. He never said the guys weren’t good enough, EVER. He still continues to play a walk-on from CPJ days that is not built for his idea of what he wants for OL. Bottom line is if you perform, regardless, you’ll play.

Your last comment is just comical in its interpretive meaning. To the point of being stupid fan interpretation.

 

[CEB]

Never underestimate how thin skinned Johnson fans are.

...or the ignorance and audacity of his detractors?
For what it’s worth, I think most who really disliked Johnson felt that way because they didn’t like the perception OUTSIDE of the program of the gimmicky high school system. How thin skinned is that? Then all of a sudden we weren’t recruiting decent college players and didn’t care to develop them physically and would never be able to defend a college team because we only practiced against option? If you weren’t paying attention, you probably would’ve thought we couldn’t win more than 3 games a season.

 

[orientalnc]

I was a big Johnson fan. I loved watching the option when it was working. And, Johnson was a genius at making it work. That said...

College football changed while Johnson was coaching at GT and we needed to change with it. Johnson might have wanted to change, but his mindset was somewhere else. Retirement was probably the right thing for him and all that thought he would jump back into coaching have noticed that he remains in retirement. I can well imagine he spent more than a few minutes encouraging his team to embrace the new staff and work hard to be the best they could be.

I had to endure a coaching change after my freshman year and it was very stressful. The fact that I was taking Calculus and Physics in the Fall of my Sophomore year while trying to impress a new coach made it very difficult. That was my last year playing college basketball. And, I bet there are a few of the GT players these past few years felt the same as I did. Coaching changes are hard for players and some handle it better than others. And, some coaching staffs handle it better than others. People say stuff when they are frustrated and under stress. Let's not make too much of it. It doesn't mean the sky is falling.

Edit: Changed "Freshman year" to "Sophomore year."

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Collins had and still has the right ideas. His execution of his ideas from day 1 has been abysmal. From throwing players under the bus about weight, height, and reach (he beat that to death) to the first play of the spring game to 3 seasons of garbage football the guy just chooses the wrong path every time. Big picture wise his ideas are fine, but he doesn’t know how to implement those ideas.

I think he finally understands that he royally screwed up in terms of rhetoric and coaching. Losing that number of games and having your best player transfer had to have opened his eyes. And it’s been great not hearing a word from him the past 2 months because when he opens his mouth he doesn’t speak the truth and everyone knows it. We are not elite, our players don’t practice harder, our team speed is slow, our QB hasn’t been developed, etc. All he had to do upon getting the job was work hard, recruit, and install his schemes. Instead he chose a different path by running his mouth and making a mockery of Georgia Tech football.

 

[Skeptic]

Yeah, that's not what he said and we all know it. Go ahead and continue with this revisionist history.

bulletin: all history is revisionist. and we can't "all" know it because I don't. The paraphrase is close enough for government work.

 

[stech81]

I was a big Johnson fan. I loved watching the option when it was working. And, Johnson was a genius at making it work. That said...

College football changed while Johnson was coaching at GT and we needed to change with it. Johnson might have wanted to change, but his mindset was somewhere else. Retirement was probably the right thing for him and all that thought he would jump back into coaching have noticed that he remains in retirement. I can well imagine he spent more than a few minutes encouraging his team to embrace the new staff and work hard to be the best they could be.

I had to endure a coaching change after my freshman year and it was very stressful. The fact that I was taking Calculus and Physics in the Fall of my Freshman year while trying to impress a new coach made it very difficult. That was my last year playing college basketball. And, I bet there are a few of the GT players these past few years felt the same as I did. Coaching changes are hard for players and some handle it better than others. And, some coaching staffs handle it better than others. People say stuff when they are frustrated and under stress. Let's not make too much of it. It doesn't mean the sky is falling.

Any time you have a coaching change you will have a number of players not happy that is life. If CGC doesn't work out the next coach will have problems with some players.

 

[gt02]

Yeah, that's not what he said and we all know it. Go ahead and continue with this revisionist history.

You are right. He did not say those exact words. But his deliberately worded message was clear. It's all fun when you have a clean slate. Looks pretty dumb when you put the product on the field that he has.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

And you weren’t in the team meetings and OL rooms with the coaches to hear what message was being shared. He never said the guys weren’t good enough, EVER. He still continues to play a walk-on from CPJ days that is not built for his idea of what he wants for OL. Bottom line is if you perform, regardless, you’ll play.

Your last comment is just comical in its interpretive meaning. To the point of being stupid fan interpretation.

Thanks for the reminder that I might be stupid. I’ll take it into consideration.

So let me see if I am getting you.

You think what CGC said publicly about the inadequacies of CPJ recruits for what he wanted to accomplish in the program was tempered by private conversations in which he told those same players that he was in their corner? I hope that is true.

If that is the case then there are no locker room problems or, at the very least, they are being blown out of proportion by a sports writer and a few fans.

 

[GT33]

Collins had and still has the right ideas. His execution of his ideas from day 1 has been abysmal. From throwing players under the bus about weight, height, and reach (he beat that to death) to the first play of the spring game to 3 seasons of garbage football the guy just chooses the wrong path every time. Big picture wise his ideas are fine, but he doesn’t know how to implement those ideas.

I think he finally understands that he royally screwed up in terms of rhetoric and coaching. Losing that number of games and having your best player transfer had to have opened his eyes. And it’s been great not hearing a word from him the past 2 months because when he opens his mouth he doesn’t speak the truth and everyone knows it. We are not elite, our players don’t practice harder, our team speed is slow, our QB hasn’t been developed, etc. All he had to do upon getting the job was work hard, recruit, and install his schemes. Instead he chose a different path by running his mouth and making a mockery of Georgia Tech football.

I'm not so sure I'd go as far as insinuating he's a liar. He just talks about stuff that he hope was so, it just isn't. GT fans tend to be a bit more black and white & that makes his inaccurate proclamations seem worse than they are particularly when viewed thru the lens of his record.

We got some new coaches, we got some new players, some players left & others were ready or need a chance to move up. Maybe we can see some improvement this year, it's the only hope we got.

 

[forensicbuzz]

bulletin: all history is revisionist. and we can't "all" know it because I don't. The paraphrase is close enough for government work.

I agree with the first comment, totally disagree with the second, as I think you do know it wasn’t what he said. Definitely not close, as your interpretation has an implied connotation that his words didn’t.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Thanks for the reminder that I might be stupid. I’ll take it into consideration.

So let me see if I am getting you.

You think what CGC said publicly about the inadequacies of CPJ recruits for what he wanted to accomplish in the program was tempered by private conversations in which he told those same players that he was in their corner? I hope that is true.

If that is the case then there are no locker room problems or, at the very least, they are being blown out of proportion by a sports writer and a few fans.

If I remember correctly, and it was said a number of times a number of different ways, what he said was that CPJ built a line designed for a different offense, with different needs, requiring different skills, and that he needed to recruit a totally different kind of player. He needed kids that were 6’5” 320+ With long arms and reach, and that wasn’t the current makeup of the OL.

Now, I think he wasn’t tactful in how he approached it, but I think he and Key were communicating all the time with the OL and the players knew exactly where they stood.

Obviously, Kenny, Lay, Minihan, etc. we’re all CPJ OL who stayed and played for CGC and CBK, so there doesn’t seem to be too big an issue with these guys.

Personally, I think the disgruntled players were probably more on the defense, but that’s a guess.