Las Vegas Mass Casualty Attack

[Deleted member 2897]

I’m not sure where your getting your data and not saying it’s wrong, i mean i guess you can make statistics say whatever you want to in many cases.

https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-m...rmany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/

“Research shows that countries with fewer guns have lower homicide rates. Even US states with fewer guns have fewer homicides; in a landmark 2002 study, analysis of data from 1988 to 1997 showed that states with “high” gun ownership had three times the rate of homicide than states with few guns. A decade later, a 2013 study found that every percentage point increase in gun ownership corresponded to a 0.9% higher risk of gun homicide. Countries and states that legally limit overall gun ownership simply have fewer gun deaths.”

I didn't say gun murder rates were lower here, I said mass shooting gun murder rates and school shooting gun murder rates were. Our gun murder rate overall is significantly higher (as your chart shows) due to inner city gang violence. That is the high majority of gun murders in this country. I gave an example earlier with Illinois as an illustration - 38% of all gun murders in the state of Illinois occurred within 0.4% of the state's geographic area (city of Chicago). Its even more pronounced if you include areas around the periphery of the city limits.

So if you (general you) are concerned with our massively high gun murder rate, you (general you) should be focused on figuring out what we can do to stop inner city crime. We've tried gun bans and all kinds of laws, and the only thing that seems to have worked well is controversial heavier handed policing.

I'm not accusing you of this, but some people put out that statistic of overall gun murders to state that the US is a war zone and we need to ban and confiscate guns like most of the rest of the modern world. If you watched the CNN Town Hall, that was the theme of the event - they want all guns banned and confiscated. They think the 2nd amendment is outdated. The NRA says there are over 2 million instances a year of guns being used in self-defense. The FBI can't verify that - in their data is about 70,000. But just think - we would be removing 70,000 attempts at self-defense where the victim felt their life were in danger - how many of those incidents would result in the harm or death of the intended victim? Who knows. But it would be measurable - much of Europe has a massively higher violent crime rate than we do here. To pick on Great Britain, if we removed all guns and in turn traded for their violent crime rate, we'd have 5 million more violent crimes per year. That's an ugly trade. And most importantly, you will never be able to disarm Americans. So its a waste of time to think about it (again, I'm talking generically and not at you personally).

Furthermore, even our gun murder rate, although incredibly high overall, is at a record low (actually near record) going back to the 1800s. And our gun ownership has massively ballooned since then. So if you plotted number of guns in this country versus murder rate, it would instruct you that we need even more guns...which I don't think most people desire. The point is we need evidence-based solutions and not political or ideological solutions.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

View attachment 3353

#1 - It will never happen in a zillion years. You can't defend yourself with a single shot musket. I know you were being facetious, but come on.

#2 - Have you looked at the gun laws over in Europe - per capita, they have more mass shootings and even more school shootings than we do. For example (there are tons of countries you can look at), in Finland I don't think they recognize gun permits for self-defense. They also outlaw semi-automatic weapons (I could be wrong, going from memory). The license per gun and its very difficult to get permits. Per capita in the last 10 years, they've had 1200 murders from just school shootings if you correct to our population. The Netherlands is even more strict - they don't allow guns for any other reason than hunting and target practice. They have had 165 population adjusted deaths from school shootings in the last 15-20 years. Germany is 600+. Denmark 200.

I’m not sure where your getting your data and not saying it’s wrong, i mean i guess you can make statistics say whatever you want to in many cases.

https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-m...rmany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/

“Research shows that countries with fewer guns have lower homicide rates. Even US states with fewer guns have fewer homicides; in a landmark 2002 study, analysis of data from 1988 to 1997 showed that states with “high” gun ownership had three times the rate of homicide than states with few guns. A decade later, a 2013 study found that every percentage point increase in gun ownership corresponded to a 0.9% higher risk of gun homicide. Countries and states that legally limit overall gun ownership simply have fewer gun deaths.”[/QUOTE]

Firearm death rate stats include suicides btw. And homicide stats include justifiable homicides.

 

[UgaBlows]

If you read the artcle there are statistics about mass murder

https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-m...rmany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/

 

[Deleted member 2897]

FYI, here is our local high school.
https://wandohigh.ccsdschools.com/directory

If you do a search (it doesn't spawn a new link, so you have to do this manually) for "SRO", you will get 5 matches. There are 5 armed police officers on campus at our high school.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Hey @WreckinGT the Sheriff finally said today the cop was not in the school and has been fired.

I rest my case. I accept your apology.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Hey @WreckinGT the Sheriff finally said today the cop was not in the school and has been fired.

I rest my case. I accept your apology.

I thought you might have been rushing to judgment a bit but it appears your suspicions/ criticisms were correct.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...ver-went-in-during-shooting-sheriff-says.html

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I thought you might have been rushing to judgment a bit but it appears your suspicions/ criticisms were correct.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...ver-went-in-during-shooting-sheriff-says.html

Something didn’t add up.

I wonder what the parents think about his lifetime pay and healthcare since they let him resign and retire according to the article. I feel for the guy, but that was his job. It’s also odd they have 3,000 students and 1 officer. Our local high school has 4,000 students and 5 armed officers.

 

[WreckinGT]

Hey @WreckinGT the Sheriff finally said today the cop was not in the school and has been fired.

I rest my case. I accept your apology.

Let's revisit what you said:

I didn't mean to imply it was easy. Something wasn't making sense that the cop 'never came across the shooter' and vague information about where he was. Turns out he wasn't on campus. I don't know where he was (a representative didn't know if it was his day off or if he had gotten called somewhere else), but he wasn't at the school. Makes a lot more sense now.

Was the guard on campus or not? You have argued for several pages now that he wasn't. While I am happy that you are choosing not to call the Sheriff a liar anymore, you really should own up to the fact that you were wrong.

Also, the cop wasn't fired. He was suspended pending further investigation and chose to retire instead.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Let's revisit what you said:

Was the guard on campus or not? You have argued for several pages now that he wasn't. While I am happy that you are choosing not to call the Sheriff a liar anymore, you really should own up to the fact that you were wrong.

Also, the cop wasn't fired. He was suspended pending further investigation and chose to retire instead.

Do you even read? I just said he resigned and retired.

Do you even read? I said three times the Sheriff didn’t lie.

Do you even read? You said he was on campus running around after the shooter but just couldn’t find him.

Do you even read? I said it seemed like he wasn’t on campus because there was no evidence he looked for the shooter or helped the wounded. Turns out he indeed wasn’t in the school but was gone and/or in the parking lot. Whether he was in the parking lot, street, McDonalds, or in the sewer is not material to the point - Law Enforcement didn’t do their job. What if school property extends across the street and he was behind a trash can across the street st an athletic field hiding? You’re good with that LOL.

Learn to read. By the way, the Sheriff is also due an apology from you too for your calling him a liar.

 

[awbuzz]

I thought you might have been rushing to judgment a bit but it appears your suspicions/ criticisms were correct.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/2...ver-went-in-during-shooting-sheriff-says.html

Beat me to it. Was going to point out
"The sheriff said he believes Peterson remained outside of the building for roughly four minutes, while the shooting in total lasted around six minutes. Israel said the officer never fired his weapon.
The sheriff told reporters he's "devastated. Sick to my stomach. There are no words."

 

[WreckinGT]

Do you even read? I just said he resigned and retired.

Do you even read? I said three times the Sheriff didn’t lie.

Do you even read? You said he was on campus running around after the shooter but just couldn’t find him.

Do you even read? I said it seemed like he wasn’t on campus because there was no evidence he looked for the shooter or helped the wounded. Turns out he indeed wasn’t in the school but was gone and/or in the parking lot. Whether he was in the parking lot, street, McDonalds, or in the sewer is not material to the point - Law Enforcement didn’t do their job. What if school property extends across the street and he was behind a trash can across the street st an athletic field hiding? You’re good with that LOL.

Learn to read. By the way, the Sheriff is also due an apology from you too for your calling him a liar.

Unlike you I actually quoted the Sheriff and didn't try to contradict him or claim he was wrong. I also never said the guard was after the shooter at all. I just reiterated what the Sheriff said multiple times, that he was there but in a different part of the campus. Now we know where on campus he was. Do you now acknowledge that he was on campus or are you still sticking to your original story that he wasn't?

 

[awbuzz]

Are going to ban cars and gasoline?
http://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-br-middletown-hospital-crash-20180222-story.html

...a Middletown man with a violent criminal history dating back more than a decade, intentionally rammed his car through the emergency room entrance at Middlesex Hospital Thursday morning before setting himself on fire (while in his car and with flammable liquids in car)
Bomb squads from Hartford and state police converged on the hospital and searched the car, finding cans with flammable liquid inside, Drew said. The liquids were sent to the state forensic lab for testing.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Beat me to it. Was going to point out
"The sheriff said he believes Peterson remained outside of the building for roughly four minutes, while the shooting in total lasted around six minutes. Israel said the officer never fired his weapon.
The sheriff told reporters he's "devastated. Sick to my stomach. There are no words."

He actually remained outside the enter time. Peterson was armed and in uniform during the shooting, but never entered the building despite "clearly" knowing a shooting was happening, Israel said.

video surveillance showed he never entered the school, even though he "clearly" knew there was a shooting taking place, officials said.

 

[WreckinGT]

View attachment 3353

#1 - It will never happen in a zillion years. You can't defend yourself with a single shot musket. I know you were being facetious, but come on.

#2 - Have you looked at the gun laws over in Europe - per capita, they have more mass shootings and even more school shootings than we do. For example (there are tons of countries you can look at), in Finland I don't think they recognize gun permits for self-defense. They also outlaw semi-automatic weapons (I could be wrong, going from memory). The license per gun and its very difficult to get permits. Per capita in the last 10 years, they've had 1200 murders from just school shootings if you correct to our population. The Netherlands is even more strict - they don't allow guns for any other reason than hunting and target practice. They have had 165 population adjusted deaths from school shootings in the last 15-20 years. Germany is 600+. Denmark 200.

I’m not sure where your getting your data and not saying it’s wrong, i mean i guess you can make statistics say whatever you want to in many cases.

https://qz.com/1212809/compare-us-m...rmany-china-russia-switzerland-and-australia/

“Research shows that countries with fewer guns have lower homicide rates. Even US states with fewer guns have fewer homicides; in a landmark 2002 study, analysis of data from 1988 to 1997 showed that states with “high” gun ownership had three times the rate of homicide than states with few guns. A decade later, a 2013 study found that every percentage point increase in gun ownership corresponded to a 0.9% higher risk of gun homicide. Countries and states that legally limit overall gun ownership simply have fewer gun deaths.”

Here is another good chart showing gun deaths related to the number guns owned.

But hey, we don't have a problem here. We are doing just fine. More guns are the answer.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Unlike you I actually quoted the Sheriff and didn't try to contradict him or claim he was wrong. I also never said the guard was after the shooter at all. I just reiterated what the Sheriff said multiple times, that he was there but in a different part of the campus. Now we know where on campus he was. Do you now acknowledge that he was on campus or are you still sticking to your original story that he wasn't?

Can you read? That’s not what I said. That’s also why I said three times the Sheriff didn’t lie. Can you read? I said the Sheriff originally said that, because that’s what he had been told, but that in the days following more information came out. Can you read? I was exactly right - he wasn’t at school, he didn’t do his job.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Here is another good chart showing gun deaths related to the number guns owned.

But hey, we don't have a problem here. We are doing just fine. More guns are the answer.

Can you even read? We’ve already discussed this. You are hopeless. That’s the opposite of what we said. In fact we specifically said that is not the answer. Can you even read?

 

[WreckinGT]

Can you read? That’s not what I said. That’s also why I said three times the Sheriff didn’t lie. Can you read? I said the Sheriff originally said that, because that’s what he had been told, but that in the days following more information came out. Can you read? I was exactly right - he wasn’t at school, he didn’t do his job. He should have been fired in my opinion instead of getting $1M worth of retirement benefits.

The Sheriff said he was on campus. You said he wasn't. Its really that simple. Also, its easy to say what he should have done. Im guessing you haven't chased many killers with AR-15's lately. It's unfortunate how it played out, but we are all humans, you can't predict how everyone is going to react, which is partially why the thought of arming teachers is ridiculous.

 

[WreckinGT]

Can you even read? We’ve already discussed this. You are hopeless. That’s the opposite of what we said. In fact we specifically said that is not the answer. Can you even read?

I wasn't referencing you personally here. I am well aware that you think every mass shooting was caused by poor law enforcement. Its a little insulting to all of the cops out there but I guess its better than the narrative that we simply don't have enough guns to stop gun violence.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The Sheriff said he was on campus. You said he wasn't. Its really that simple. Also, its easy to say what he should have done. Im guessing you haven't chased many killers with AR-15's lately. It's unfortunate how it played out, but we are all humans, you can't predict how everyone is going to react, which is partially why the thought of arming teachers is ridiculous.

I was right and you were wrong. The point is he never went into school and never tried to stop the shooting or help anybody. If he would have been 100 miles away, you would have been okay with that as long as it had been school property. Your argument is laughably ridiculous. I’m actually reading he wasn’t on campus property anyway, but was close by and responded to the radio call but never went in. None of that matters to the main point. I hope you never go into law enforcement.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I wasn't referencing you personally here. I am well aware that you think every mass shooting was caused by poor law enforcement. Its a little insulting to all of the cops out there but I guess its better than the narrative that we simply don't have enough guns to stop gun violence.

You are so creepy, putting words into my mouth I clearly never say. You should see a psychiatrist.