KO blunder Review

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Per an article by Ken, Johnson said there were 5 true freshmen in on the coverage of the first KO return, and 4 on the second one. I don't know who made that call, but that's too much to expect from true freshmen (Johnson agrees, so he didn't make the call). We need experience on KO coverage as much as we do on other aspects of the game.

 

[GT_05]

Serious question. Why don’t we kickoff a high ball that would be fielded at about the twenty-five or thirty? This gives the coverage team plenty of time to get downfield and it seems like this “compression” of the kickoff and return teams would naturally keep return gaps from forming. This could also cause confusion about whether or not the ball could be fair caught, due to the new rule. It seems like we did this perfectly against UGA in 2014 or 2016 and the return team was totally confused about who should field the kick.


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[slugboy]

Serious question. Why don’t we kickoff a high ball that would be fielded at about the twenty-five or thirty? This gives the coverage team plenty of time to get downfield and it seems like this “compression” of the kickoff and return teams would naturally keep return gaps from forming. This could also cause confusion about whether or not the ball could be fair caught, due to the new rule. It seems like we did this perfectly against UGA in 2014 or 2016 and the return team was totally confused about who should field the kick.


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We eventually did. The other teams will move their return men if we do that all the time.
But it’s a start


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[GT_05]

We eventually did. The other teams will move their return men if we do that all the time.
But it’s a start


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I may have missed the high kick; I do remember a squib kick. Anyway, I think that even if they move the return guys up, the greater density of bodies would keep big lanes from forming along with causing some confusion. Where are my feet? Can I fair catch or not?


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[slugboy]

I may have missed the high kick; I do remember a squib kick. Anyway, I think that even if they move the return guys up, the greater density of bodies would keep big lanes from forming along with causing some confusion. Where are my feet? Can I fair catch or not?


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No one is thinking about fair catching against us. A high kick does give more time to get our players downfield though


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[GT_05]

True. They aren’t thinking about fair catching at the five but I think the thought process might be different at the twenty-five.


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[danny daniel]

Rule one should be to NOT kick it to the best return player on the field. Rule 2 should be to pooch kick, squibb kick, or out of bounds kick. With our kickers and return personnel and ST coaches we already know we cannot keep on keeping on! A squibb kick is very very difficult to return as it blows up the blocking timing, you have some chance of getting it yourself, it keeps the ball out of the wrong hands if you do it right, and you can still get reasonable field position....and you do not have to have a great kicker to execute it.

 

[LongforDodd]

True. They aren’t thinking about fair catching at the five but I think the thought process might be different at the twenty-five.


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At the Alcorn State game my seat was on the goal line upper west. I watched on the big screen Alcorn State fair caught a KO on the 3 yard line (south EZ), the ref blew the whistle/play stopped, and their first play was from the 25 yard line.

Or did I not see that?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

At the Alcorn State game my seat was on the goal line upper west. I watched on the big screen Alcorn State fair caught a KO on the 3 yard line (south EZ), the ref blew the whistle/play stopped, and their first play was from the 25 yard line.

Or did I not see that?

Yes, you did. That's the new rule in action.

 

[684Bee]

At the Alcorn State game my seat was on the goal line upper west. I watched on the big screen Alcorn State fair caught a KO on the 3 yard line (south EZ), the ref blew the whistle/play stopped, and their first play was from the 25 yard line.

Or did I not see that?

You can fair catch kickoffs now anywhere inside the 25, and the ball will be placed on the 25.

The intent, I believe, is to limit the number of collisions on kickoffs.

Until we can prove we have improved on coverage, I wouldn’t expect many more fair catches against us.

 

[GT_05]

At the Alcorn State game my seat was on the goal line upper west. I watched on the big screen Alcorn State fair caught a KO on the 3 yard line (south EZ), the ref blew the whistle/play stopped, and their first play was from the 25 yard line.

Or did I not see that?

That comment I made makes more sense when you read the entire exchange I had with another poster. He commented that nobody is thinking “fair catch” after our performance on Saturday. I agreed that that may be true but I think the thought process would be different at the 5 versus the 25.

I suggested that we kick a high kickoff to the 25 or 30. I think this will:

Give our coverage time to get down the field.

There will be more bodies in one place, as opposed to a long kickoff, so I think it would close running lanes.

Also, the new rule may cause some confusion if you kick to the 25. The returner might hesitate because he won’t know whether he can fair catch or not.




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[katlong]

I really appreciate you posting this explanation. I can appreciate those of you who agree with the coach that we have to keep doing it until we get it right to force the fundamentals because it does seem silly we can't cover a kickoff, but I can't bring myself to agree with you - especially when CPJ blamed it on the fact that the returner was "on a different level" than us. Everyone knew that runner was a big deal going into the game - well, he didn't get quite the wall-to-wall coverage that the QB got (please shoot me now), but I digress. And we definitely knew it after the first kick. So if your excuse is that he is on a different level, then adjust your play. Every time we kick off, I hold my breath in anticipation of 30-50-90 yard returns because we aren't getting this right - this is not the first season we've struggled. I'd rather kick it on the ground, out of bounds (and give them the 10 yards), or pooch it to someone else on the team. I'm not the coach, but if I were, my #1 rule would be DON'T KICK IT TO THE OLYMPIC ATHLETE!

 

[GT_05]

I really appreciate you posting this explanation. I can appreciate those of you who agree with the coach that we have to keep doing it until we get it right to force the fundamentals because it does seem silly we can't cover a kickoff, but I can't bring myself to agree with you - especially when CPJ blamed it on the fact that the returner was "on a different level" than us. Everyone knew that runner was a big deal going into the game - well, he didn't get quite the wall-to-wall coverage that the QB got (please shoot me now), but I digress. And we definitely knew it after the first kick. So if your excuse is that he is on a different level, then adjust your play. Every time we kick off, I hold my breath in anticipation of 30-50-90 yard returns because we aren't getting this right - this is not the first season we've struggled. I'd rather kick it on the ground, out of bounds (and give them the 10 yards), or pooch it to someone else on the team. I'm not the coach, but if I were, my #1 rule would be DON'T KICK IT TO THE OLYMPIC ATHLETE!

I really do think this is a good play for us. If a returner tried to field a kick at the 26 but calls for a fair catch because he thinks he’s at the 25, the fair catch signal means nothing and he could get hammered by the kickoff team. Unlike a punt, getting away from the ball is not an option either so somebody has to field it.

If the returner is just inside the 25, he could fair catch but if he tried a return most of the kickoff team would surely be right on top of him for a quick tackle.

Maybe I’m not thinking about this right. What am I missing?


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[jgtengineer]

I really appreciate you posting this explanation. I can appreciate those of you who agree with the coach that we have to keep doing it until we get it right to force the fundamentals because it does seem silly we can't cover a kickoff, but I can't bring myself to agree with you - especially when CPJ blamed it on the fact that the returner was "on a different level" than us. Everyone knew that runner was a big deal going into the game - well, he didn't get quite the wall-to-wall coverage that the QB got (please shoot me now), but I digress. And we definitely knew it after the first kick. So if your excuse is that he is on a different level, then adjust your play. Every time we kick off, I hold my breath in anticipation of 30-50-90 yard returns because we aren't getting this right - this is not the first season we've struggled. I'd rather kick it on the ground, out of bounds (and give them the 10 yards), or pooch it to someone else on the team. I'm not the coach, but if I were, my #1 rule would be DON'T KICK IT TO THE OLYMPIC ATHLETE!

On a different level doesn't mean that much better, he meant that the kick coverage overran the returner putting him on a different "level" of the field. Not that he was on a different "level" physically. He was very good but that isn't what CPJ meant. This disparity is shown in the screen caps.

 

[katlong]

On a different level doesn't mean that much better, he meant that the kick coverage overran the returner putting him on a different "level" of the field. Not that he was on a different "level" physically. He was very good but that isn't what CPJ meant. This disparity is shown in the screen caps.

I went back and watched again. You are right. I must have misheard it - I think it was the follow up question I couldn't hear that he answered "do you think we coach them (inaudible) that level" - I think I heard it differently the first time. I still maintain we need a new strategy for KOs.

 

[Skeptic]

Man this is bad lol. This the 2nd KO return TD. Here are frames for us to see what is going on. Thanks ESPN for this endsone view.

View attachment 4112
This first pic to show alignment. I played KO for 4yrs and was a “force” player as CPJ alluded to in the post game interview meaning I’m going directly to returning and “forcing” him to redirect or simply make the tackle.

Each player is assigned a number from the sideline to the kickoff tee. Each number has a different assignment depending on the kick call which is deep left here

View attachment 4113

Based on the video, we have a twist going at the wide side of the field. I determined #3 is the contain guy and 1, 2, & maybe 4(not so sure on him) the force guys.

Where the problem begins: Lane fits



As the twist occurs, our young freshman both #1 and #2 go inside of the lead blocker leaving a crease. #4 is baffling to me. He’s giving the impression of another contain guy but that wouldn’t make sense. Imo, he should apply the KO rule of defeating blocks by cross the face/butt of the blocker. By him going up field, he created a natural lane for return team.


Unlike everyone else, i was happy to see CPJ kick to him again. There is only one way to get it right and that’s by experience.

I will try to do some Def breakdown later on a series or 2

Really helps me understand what in the wide world of sports was going on. Good primer on special teams, even if we botched it. Thanks.

 

[Fatmike91]

Shouldn’t the thread title be “kickoff blunders”?

/

 

[MWBATL]

I'm not the coach, but if I were, my #1 rule would be DON'T KICK IT TO THE OLYMPIC ATHLETE!

With all due respect to the USF kid, I will be shocked if he gets another KO return for points this year. Football is a team game...if our team had played it right, we wouldn't have noticed he was an Olympic athlete.

 

[ATL1]

Per an article by Ken, Johnson said there were 5 true freshmen in on the coverage of the first KO return, and 4 on the second one. I don't know who made that call, but that's too much to expect from true freshmen (Johnson agrees, so he didn't make the call). We need experience on KO coverage as much as we do on other aspects of the game.

It’s most likely a talent >>>> experience issue.

 

[RonJohn]

I really do think this is a good play for us. If a returner tried to field a kick at the 26 but calls for a fair catch because he thinks he’s at the 25, the fair catch signal means nothing and he could get hammered by the kickoff team.

From the NCAA rule book:

A fair catch of a free kick is a catch by a player of Team B who has made a valid signal during an untouched free kick.

It doesn't matter where the player is (inside 25 yard line or in front of 25 yard line), the player cannot be interfered with. He has to be allowed to catch the ball and then the ball would be dead where he catches it. Just like a punt.