Just a reminder - GT academics for athletes

[AlabamaBuzz]

I am stealing this from another site, but I don't believe the poster would mind....it is just an eye-opener for some of those that may not understand GT and the academic differences.....

EDIT: OP said that copying and pasting was OK with him...

If this is something that is not allowed, moderators, I apologize, and you can remove the thread.....

Credit to ConyersJacket:

It's been a good while since I got out of GT so last month I did some actual digging around GT's website to see what the athletes have to take these days. For the sake of argument let's assume they're all management majors trying to take the easiest road possible. What's GT's "best case" scenario for borderline admissions?

- They have to take Survey of Calculushttp://www.math.gatech.edu/course/math/1712

I assume this is something a bit easier than regular old calculus. But when you're talking about they players accepted onto SEC defenses, it doesn't matter one öööö bit if it's "easy calculus" or "hard calculus". Some of those guys are almost illiterate. They can't pass it. They probably can't handle algebra.

They also have to take a 2 semesters of lab science. Pick from Biology, Chemistry, Physics and EAS.

But here's what surprised me and something that's changed since my day. They have to take a programming course. CS1301 or CS1315. At a glance it looks like CS1315 is the way to go, but even that class still requires actual programming.

those were just 3 of the hilights. Here's everything they have to take:http://scheller.gatech.edu/programs/...edit_sheet.pdf

At a glance there is:
MATH 1711 Finite Mathmatics
MGT 2250 Mgt Statistics
MGT 2251 as a followup.
And 4 courses in accounting/economics. Micro-econ will have some math. I never took an accounting course so I don't know how hard that can be.

Anyway I just wanted to put some facts out there to demonstrate that there's a lot more going on than just "easy calculus that they maybe took at Perimeter college".

Compared to top liberal arts schools this is hard as öööö for a lot of football players. Add on top of that GT's lack of grade inflation (they still do that right?), and football player's very limited time to get stuff done... The UVAs, UNCs, Stanfords of the world can't compare to GT. Duke slams all it's basketball players through a 3 year sociology degree for öööö's sake.

Checkout Julius Pepper's (UNC player for those who forgot/never knew) transcript. Ignore the grades at first, just look at the classes.http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/11/...rs_trans_1.png

Now compare that with arguably the easiest path through GT. It isn't even remotely comparable. Other highly ranked schools with liberal arts majors are doing the same thing. These schools have no excuse for losing. They are not handicapped whatsoever. Their biggest handicap is they aren't in the "black belt" and don't have the recruiting grounds the SEC does.

The only schools out there as tough (and honestly, I feel are much tougher) are Army, Navy and Air Force. It is god damned amazing GT has made it to 17 straight bowl games. But it is not a level playing field, these academic requirements lead to admission standards which lead to us not getting 4 and 5 star players in our own backyard, many of whom would surely attend GT if given the chance to stay close to home. GT could be a powerhouse.

But that's neither here nor there, my real point here is to just introduce some hard data, some facts into this never ending conversation that repeats itself over and over but is greatly simplified from the truth because we just make it all about 1 calculus class.

 

[Boomergump]

Thank God we do.

 

[awbuzz]

I am stealing this from another site, but I don't believe the poster would mind....it is just an eye-opener for some of those that may not understand GT and the academic differences.....

EDIT: OP said that copying and pasting was OK with him...

If this is something that is not allowed, moderators, I apologize, and you can remove the thread.....

Credit to ConyersJacket:

It's been a good while since I got out of GT so last month I did some actual digging around GT's website to see what the athletes have to take these days. For the sake of argument let's assume they're all management majors trying to take the easiest road possible. What's GT's "best case" scenario for borderline admissions?

- They have to take Survey of Calculushttp://www.math.gatech.edu/course/math/1712

I assume this is something a bit easier than regular old calculus. But when you're talking about they players accepted onto SEC defenses, it doesn't matter one öööö bit if it's "easy calculus" or "hard calculus". Some of those guys are almost illiterate. They can't pass it. They probably can't handle algebra.

They also have to take a 2 semesters of lab science. Pick from Biology, Chemistry, Physics and EAS.

But here's what surprised me and something that's changed since my day. They have to take a programming course. CS1301 or CS1315. At a glance it looks like CS1315 is the way to go, but even that class still requires actual programming.

those were just 3 of the hilights. Here's everything they have to take:http://scheller.gatech.edu/programs/...edit_sheet.pdf

At a glance there is:
MATH 1711 Finite Mathmatics
MGT 2250 Mgt Statistics
MGT 2251 as a followup.
And 4 courses in accounting/economics. Micro-econ will have some math. I never took an accounting course so I don't know how hard that can be.

Anyway I just wanted to put some facts out there to demonstrate that there's a lot more going on than just "easy calculus that they maybe took at Perimeter college".

Compared to top liberal arts schools this is hard as öööö for a lot of football players. Add on top of that GT's lack of grade inflation (they still do that right?), and football player's very limited time to get stuff done... The UVAs, UNCs, Stanfords of the world can't compare to GT. Duke slams all it's basketball players through a 3 year sociology degree for öööö's sake.

Checkout Julius Pepper's (UNC player for those who forgot/never knew) transcript. Ignore the grades at first, just look at the classes.http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/11/...rs_trans_1.png

Now compare that with arguably the easiest path through GT. It isn't even remotely comparable. Other highly ranked schools with liberal arts majors are doing the same thing. These schools have no excuse for losing. They are not handicapped whatsoever. Their biggest handicap is they aren't in the "black belt" and don't have the recruiting grounds the SEC does.

The only schools out there as tough (and honestly, I feel are much tougher) are Army, Navy and Air Force. It is god damned amazing GT has made it to 17 straight bowl games. But it is not a level playing field, these academic requirements lead to admission standards which lead to us not getting 4 and 5 star players in our own backyard, many of whom would surely attend GT if given the chance to stay close to home. GT could be a powerhouse.

But that's neither here nor there, my real point here is to just introduce some hard data, some facts into this never ending conversation that repeats itself over and over but is greatly simplified from the truth because we just make it all about 1 calculus class.

Was a good write up. I'm sure that UNC is very proud of that transcript.
Did they offer any red or yellow or purple classes?

 

[MWBATL]

Ask any UNC alum whether they care more about winning national championships in basketball or being embarrassed by said transcripts.

Most would not care about being embarrassed. It is only a few naive schools that retain the cloak of student-athlete.

 

[DvilleJacket]

I would love to see just who we could get to play at Tech if the playing field was even. Do you guys think the highest recruits would come to play if they didnt have to take all the hard classes? I still think Tech would be a tough sell compared to the bigger SEC and ACC schools surrounding our state. We would certainly be getting more 4 and high 3 star players.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

It is only a few naive schools that retain the cloak of student-athlete.

I guess that makes us naive.

 

[MWBATL]

I guess that makes us naive.

It does. Many can (and should) take pride in it, but it is not practical in today's world. Not at least in a world that values athletic prowess, or money. We are a bit like Don Quixote, tilting at windmills. Noble indeed, but out of touch with the realities around us. And like Quixote, we have a nobility that is to be admired, as we go down to defeat.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

It does. Many can (and should) take pride in it, but it is not practical in today's world. Not at least in a world that values athletic prowess, or money. We are a bit like Don Quixote, tilting at windmills. Noble indeed, but out of touch with the realities around us. And like Quixote, we have a nobility that is to be admired, as we go down to defeat.

Anything worthwhile is difficult and all the more sweet when accomplished. I want the best of both worlds. I wanna be MiT M-F and FSU on Saturdays. Either way, academics comes first. Are we a school with a football program or a football program with a school?

 

[wuzjrbuzz]

 

[dressedcheeseside]

 

[GT_B]

The best part of the peppers transcript was there are not one, but two courses of "the black experience" .... What is that? Sounds like a course for white people to learn how to dance or possible take field trips to black areas...This is not even including everyone other class being some form of African studies with a 1.8gpa. Jesus, and people wonder how some of these "student" athletes get through school.

 

[Tempest_12]

The best part of the peppers transcript was there are not one, but two courses of "the black experience" .... What is that? Sounds like a course for white people to learn how to dance or possible take field trips to black areas...This is not even including everyone other class being some form of African studies with a 1.8gpa. Jesus, and people wonder how some of these "student" athletes get through school.

I can't help but think how the hell did he get a B in independent studies???

 

[GT_B]

I can't help but think how the hell did he get a B in independent studies???

He was grading himself and couldn't figure a way to give himself an A.

 

[4shotB]

I can't help but think how the hell did he get a B in independent studies???

it was a semester course devoted to understanding the definition of and learning how to spell the word "independent' (hence the word 'studies" - he had to learn 2 things). In the spelling portion of the final, he replaced one of the 'e's" with an "i" instead. Thus the B.

 

[vamosjackets]

Ask any UNC alum whether they care more about winning national championships in basketball or being embarrassed by said transcripts.

Most would not care about being embarrassed. It is only a few naive schools that retain the cloak of student-athlete.

So, are you in favor of being hypocritical liars who also exploit athletes for financial gain while giving them nothing in return?

 

[takethepoints]

Personally, I applaud Tech for not engaging in a race to the bottom, regardless of whether that is "naive" or not. We shouldn't be sitting here thinking of ways to contribute to the problems created by major college football programs.

 

[alaguy]

I love the idea someone had of testing all SR fball players -- show a tape of verbal answers to questions and/or publishing of their scores on the Pro's "IQ" test .(Was it that DB from Lsu that got a 9 of 40?) the Rhodes scholar QB from Ala got 37.

 

[Rodney Kent]

vamosjacket: The athletes are not being exploited. They are exploiting the colleges to give them free food, free housing, free medical, free education, free travel, and a host of other freebies that the regular students do not get and cannot afford. Most college athletic departments are in the red, and not one could have a football program of today if it were not for the rich boosters who pay for most of this. Not only are they gettting over one-half million dollars in five years for all this free stuff, but they are getting the chance to show-boat their talents to try and get multi-million dollar salaries from the pros.

They have the best advantage of any class of young people in the United States. If they start paying the players, I, personally will not attend or watch another college football game. There are many like me who feel this way. It will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. In fact, this may be the last year of football without payments to the players.

Here is my proposal. The pro football teams can do like the pro baseball teams. They can create farm clubs in the cities that do not have pro teams. The players can come directly out of High School and be selected by the pros for an NFL club if they are good enough, or they can be assigned to a minor league football team in another city. They will draw a small salary from the minor leagues, ride on busses to all their games in other cities, pay for their own food, lodging, medical, etal while at home. The teams may or may not be able to pay all of their expenses to the games, but some might. They will then stay in the farm club until they are pulled up to their NFL team. Talk to some players from minor league baseball teams, it is not a pretty picture.

Actually, I hope College Football goes away when the players begin getting pay in addition to all the perks they now have for their free education. I have no sympathy for the players who now have the best of all possible perks while getting their education. Also, the regular students are not attending school because they love it, they are trying to get an education so they can get a job after they get their degree. Either their parents are paying for their education, or they have to borrow money to be paid back later. I loved sports, and would think that most playing the various sports loves the games and competition also. It must be great to be getting a free ride while playing a game you love.

Oh yes, and if any of them desire a college education, they can pay for their own.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

vamosjacket: The athletes are not being exploited. They are exploiting the colleges to give them free food, free housing, free medical, free education, free travel, and a host of other freebies that the regular students do not get and cannot afford. Most college athletic departments are in the red, and not one could have a football program of today if it were not for the rich boosters who pay for most of this. Not only are they gettting over one-half million dollars in five years for all this free stuff, but they are getting the chance to show-boat their talents to try and get multi-million dollar salaries from the pros.

They have the best advantage of any class of young people in the United States. If they start paying the players, I, personally will not attend or watch another college football game. There are many like me who feel this way. It will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. In fact, this may be the last year of football without payments to the players.

Here is my proposal. The pro football teams can do like the pro baseball teams. They can create farm clubs in the cities that do not have pro teams. The players can come directly out of High School and be selected by the pros for an NFL club if they are good enough, or they can be assigned to a minor league football team in another city. They will draw a small salary from the minor leagues, ride on busses to all their games in other cities, pay for their own food, lodging, medical, etal while at home. The teams may or may not be able to pay all of their expenses to the games, but some might. They will then stay in the farm club until they are pulled up to their NFL team. Talk to some players from minor league baseball teams, it is not a pretty picture.

Actually, I hope College Football goes away when the players begin getting pay in addition to all the perks they now have for their free education. I have no sympathy for the players who now have the best of all possible perks while getting their education. Also, the regular students are not attending school because they love it, they are trying to get an education so they can get a job after they get their degree. Either their parents are paying for their education, or they have to borrow money to be paid back later. I loved sports, and would think that most playing the various sports loves the games and competition also. It must be great to be getting a free ride while playing a game you love.

Oh yes, and if any of them desire a college education, they can pay for their own.

To be honest, I agree with much of this, with one caveat. Many schools lie to their prospects telling them exactly what they want to hear about their NFL chances and steer them into worthless degree paths created for guys who don't belong in college. Now that's exploitation. Granted, the prospects aren't forced to take their offer, but they are not prepared for this decision and the colleges take advantage of that.

 

[vamosjackets]

vamosjacket: The athletes are not being exploited. They are exploiting the colleges to give them free food, free housing, free medical, free education, free travel, and a host of other freebies that the regular students do not get and cannot afford. Most college athletic departments are in the red, and not one could have a football program of today if it were not for the rich boosters who pay for most of this. Not only are they gettting over one-half million dollars in five years for all this free stuff, but they are getting the chance to show-boat their talents to try and get multi-million dollar salaries from the pros.

They have the best advantage of any class of young people in the United States. If they start paying the players, I, personally will not attend or watch another college football game. There are many like me who feel this way. It will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. In fact, this may be the last year of football without payments to the players.

Here is my proposal. The pro football teams can do like the pro baseball teams. They can create farm clubs in the cities that do not have pro teams. The players can come directly out of High School and be selected by the pros for an NFL club if they are good enough, or they can be assigned to a minor league football team in another city. They will draw a small salary from the minor leagues, ride on busses to all their games in other cities, pay for their own food, lodging, medical, etal while at home. The teams may or may not be able to pay all of their expenses to the games, but some might. They will then stay in the farm club until they are pulled up to their NFL team. Talk to some players from minor league baseball teams, it is not a pretty picture.

Actually, I hope College Football goes away when the players begin getting pay in addition to all the perks they now have for their free education. I have no sympathy for the players who now have the best of all possible perks while getting their education. Also, the regular students are not attending school because they love it, they are trying to get an education so they can get a job after they get their degree. Either their parents are paying for their education, or they have to borrow money to be paid back later. I loved sports, and would think that most playing the various sports loves the games and competition also. It must be great to be getting a free ride while playing a game you love.

Oh yes, and if any of them desire a college education, they can pay for their own.

I'm not trying to advocate paying players. I agree with you completely on that front. The partnership should be, "You play football for our school, and we'll give you a university education." When I say exploiting athletes for financial gain and giving them nothing in return, I'm talking about schools who don't hold up their end of the bargain on the education part. When a school uses an athlete like Nick Marshall and brings him in to get them to the national championship game, they are getting a HUGE financial gain ... probably immeasurable. And, what will they give that guy for compensation ... a degree in Leisure Studies or something similar ... ie a worthless piece of paper signifying that he learned nothing while in college for 5 years. Nick Marshall will probably not make it in the pros, very similar to Josh Nesbitt's situation. Of course with Marshall and those guys going to Auburn and the like, they're probably getting compensated under the table. Either way it's cheating.

If a guy plays football for your school and gets a real education and a real diploma, that's an excellent partnership. Your school gets a financial gain and you give him something that will serve him and make his life better for the rest of his life. It's a win-win. And, it's fair.

I also agree with you on the NFL minor league thing or something similar. There's certainly enough money in that market to go around.