Is Georgia Tech football in better spot today (2018) than when you started 2008?

Is the Georgia Tech football program in better spot today (2018) than what you inherited in 2008?

  • Yes

    Votes: 89 62.7%
  • No

    Votes: 53 37.3%

  • Total voters
    142
  • Poll closed .
Messages
746
I’m convinced that those who answer “yes” to this question are either
(a) Chan Gailey
(b) only began following GT football 3-4 years ago OR
(c) trolling

Or fans wide-awake to the fact that we've had 2 of 3 losing seasons and missed-bowls recently and are recovering from an excitement-killing 1-3 start that had losses to 2 teams we should've defeated. Not sure how that translates to being in a good spot. Personally, I think anyone who answers Yes to 2018 being better is a Scheme First, School Second sort of fan, in love with offensive stats more than victories. 'Cause we have plenty of one but not much of the other lately.

Again though, a question better asked at the end of the season, when 2018 can be put into better perspective.
 

MountainBuzzMan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,707
Location
South Forsyth
Question should be asked again at the end of the season. If the recent 2-game winning streak translates to a turnaround, 8-victory season with a win over the mutts/Miami and a decent bowl, I think the answer would have to be Yes. If we end up with our 3rd losing season in 4 years and yet-another missed bowl, only the delusional will think we're in a better spot today.

I can agree with this. That is why I push back some when there is adversity early on. You have to let the season play out to get the whole picture. I also hate knee jerk reactions.
 

first&ten

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
880
In truth the program is only treading water, and has been for the past 3-4 seasons.Our ACC competition for the most part is getting better with recruiting and coaching. T. Stan I believe is an upgrade over the last few A.D's and has a vision for Tech athletics. The fan base is ready and willing to their part regarding money and attendance. The roadblock is Paul Johnson,his offense, attitude and recruiting record. This football program is ready for a new beginning starting in 2019.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
Good day team.

There has been a ton of discussion recently about the challenges Georgia Tech faces on the recruiting trail and what our reasonable expectations should be as a program in this area. As most of us agree, a programs ability to recruit talent is one of, if not the most important barometer in determining a program's success. Generally speaking, the teams that recruit the best are the teams that are contending for championships. While there are certainly outliers, it is hard to point to a program that is consistently successful that does not recruit at a high level. Likewise it is also hard to point to a school that is consistently recruiting at or near the bottom of their conference that finishes consistently in the middle of the pack of their conference.

With this being the case, I think it is important to understand how Georgia Tech recruited in the decade leading up to Paul Johnson and how they have done in the decade since he has been here. I understand there have been some changes to the collegiate landscape during the span we are looking at and can agree these changes might have caused our ceiling to be somewhat lower than it was at the turn of the century. However, some of the arguments that are used to support the current level of recruiting are simply not based in fact. Arguments such as the restrictive nature of our curriculum and the effect it has on recruiting and the belief that we have never been able to win head to head recruiting battles with the national powers that are in our neighborhood as Stansbury says.

Please note: It was more difficult finding information on the Oleary years because they were just before the Rivals or Scout datebases started keeping track of "class rankings." If anyone has anything to add from a data perspective I certainly welcome it.

http://www.espn.com/recruiting/s/2000/0203/333209.html

The link above is Tom Lemming's recruiting class ranking from 2000. Scroll to the bottom and you will find it. Our Georgia Institute of Technology comes in with the #12 ranked class in the nation. Ahead of the likes of Georgia, Auburn, Miami, Oklahoma & LSU. We beat out powerhouse programs consistently in 2000. Players such as Hobie Holiday, Daryl Smith, Tony Hollings, J.P. Foschi & Keyaron Fox were all pursued by virtually everyone from the ACC and SEC. This class followed what was good a class in 99 as well but this 2000 class is what put the nation on notice that the program that Oleary had built was going to be a force on the national stage in recruiting.

http://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-inks-another-highly-regarded-football-class/

For the 2001 class I could not find a class ranking for that year. If anybody can find one I would love to see it. What I was able to find was various sites that listed our recruits accolades individually. This class was loaded with players that were rated among the top 50 in Georgia and top 100 in the south. For the sake of this discussion, I'm going to assume that players listed as one of the top 100 players in the south would be the equivalent of a Rivals 300 player today. Considering that players from the south make up over half the Rivals 300 annually I think that is a safe bet. Players that were listed as the top 100 players in the class of 01 that committed to Tech include:

1. Demarious Bilbo
2. Dawan landry
3. Reuben Houston
4. Tabugbo Anyansi
5. Kyle Wallace
6. Levon Thomas
7. Gerris Bower-Wilkinson was listed as one of the top players in California and a Prep Star top 285 in the nation player. I will include him in what would be a Rivals 300 player today.

Let's compare the class of 01, which I am sure would have been ranked in the top 25 at least, with Johnson's entire decade of recruiting in terms of top 300 players. Since the 08 class, here are the number of Rivals 300 recruits that Johnson has signed.

1. Denzel McCoy
2. Anthony Williams
3. Louis Young
4. Jabari hunt days
5. Justin Thomas
6. Bruce Jordan swilling
7. Jaylon King

So as you see, the 01 class had as many top 300 players in it alone as Johnson has signed during his entire tenure.

Obviously O'Leary chose to move on to ND after this season so our great run in recruiting stopped there. But I think it's reasonable to say that he was maximizing our potential on the recruiting trail and showing GT could compete for big time talent with anybody. It was a good time to be a Jacket and looking back I would have loved to see us hire from within the program to keep this good mojo rolling. I think it was a huge mistake to bring in Gailey who had extremely limited experience with the collegiate game and it clearly took him too long to figure out the recruiting game at GT. Our program went from 3 straight solid classes with many wins against the perceived powers in recruiting, to scouring the land looking for overlooked gems. Our recruiting took a huge hit as we fell into the 50's in terms of class rankings. Some will point to flunkgate in 03 and the response by the hill to that debacle as the reason Gailey's recruiting fell off the face of the earth. If that was the case though, how do you explain his class in 07? In 07 Gailey signed 8 4 star players. This was more than the rest of his classes combined. The argument can't be that there were more academically qualified 4 star kids in that year than all the years before combined can it? The answer is no. Gailey just nailed his top targets which is what recruiting boils down to. This was a top 20 class and proved what Oleary had proved just 6 years prior. That GT can recruit competitively with the national powers.

In 08 Gailey was following that class up with what was easily on pace to be his second best class and maybe challenge the 07 class proving 07 wasn't a fluke. Upon his firing in December he already had commits from multiple 4 star players. Uzzi, Chis Jackson, Sean Renfree and A.J. Jackson were all on board and we found ourselves back in the top 25 of the recruiting ranking before we let Gailey go. Chan Gailey had figured out how to recruit to Georgia tech just as George Oleary had. Both coaches showed with the right vision and with right assistant coaches that the ceiling for Georgia Tech in recruiting high enough to compete for conference championships.

I thank Gailey for what he did with the class of 07. He laid the foundation for what was Johnson's 2 most successful years with that class. And make no mistake Johnson coached his butt off with those teams. An ACC Championship and Orange Bowl berth. A victory over the mutts in his first year. He set the world on fire. The problem is however that almost all of the best players he has had while at tech were a result of Gailey's recruiting. He has never been able to find a back as good as Dwyer or a receiver as good Thomas. The best defensive player of his tenure is easily either Derrick Morgan or Morgan Burnette. I believe the best qb he has had was Nesbitt although I understand the argument for Thomas. (which incidentally is one of his few Rivals 300 recruits).

Johnson's classes have continually fallen short of top 40 status, having one ranked as low as 84, and his ability to bring in good talent at a consistent level is the reason for the downturn in our program. I believe like most on this board that Johnson is a good coach and that he does give us a unique advantage with his offense over schools with more talent. And I think that is great for a place like Navy which has no shot at recruiting high end talent.

That is certainly not the case at GT however. At least it wasn't when he took the job at GT. Upon arrival at GT he inherited a program that recruited top 25 classes in 4 of the 9 previous years and Gailey had it poised to be 5 out of 10. While nobody is going to confuse that with the recruiting being done at Alabama or FSU it is miles from where we are now. I would argue those numbers would look even better if Gailey hadn't of had such a steep learning curve upon arrival but it is what it is.

To sum it up, I believe this shows that GT recruited much better in the decade leading up to Johnson's arrival than we currently are and this certainly shows that we HAVE been able to win recruiting battles with the perceived powers in our region before Johnson arrived. It also shows the argument about a limited curriculum and it's effects on recruiting are overblown. To my knowledge our course offerings have not shrunk over the past decade. Also if you believe that Johnson gives us a better chance to win with less talent, which I believe to be a reasonable argument, you must also be willing to accept the fact he is a significant part of the reason we are going to have less talent. His offense nor his personality are conducive to luring the type of recruits we proved we could get before his arrival. Honestly both act as a repellant.

It all boils down to wins and losses however. And right now he is not winning at a level that is up to where the programs standards have been for at least 3 decades now. So in discussion of what our program would recruit like without Johnson, let's not make us to be Kansas or Indiana or Oregon State. Before Johnson got here we recruited just fine. And we will do so after he is gone as well if we have the right leadership.
 

first&ten

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
880
Good day team.

There has been a ton of discussion recently about the challenges Georgia Tech faces on the recruiting trail and what our reasonable expectations should be as a program in this area. As most of us agree, a programs ability to recruit talent is one of, if not the most important barometer in determining a program's success. Generally speaking, the teams that recruit the best are the teams that are contending for championships. While there are certainly outliers, it is hard to point to a program that is consistently successful that does not recruit at a high level. Likewise it is also hard to point to a school that is consistently recruiting at or near the bottom of their conference that finishes consistently in the middle of the pack of their conference.

With this being the case, I think it is important to understand how Georgia Tech recruited in the decade leading up to Paul Johnson and how they have done in the decade since he has been here. I understand there have been some changes to the collegiate landscape during the span we are looking at and can agree these changes might have caused our ceiling to be somewhat lower than it was at the turn of the century. However, some of the arguments that are used to support the current level of recruiting are simply not based in fact. Arguments such as the restrictive nature of our curriculum and the effect it has on recruiting and the belief that we have never been able to win head to head recruiting battles with the national powers that are in our neighborhood as Stansbury says.

Please note: It was more difficult finding information on the Oleary years because they were just before the Rivals or Scout datebases started keeping track of "class rankings." If anyone has anything to add from a data perspective I certainly welcome it.

http://www.espn.com/recruiting/s/2000/0203/333209.html

The link above is Tom Lemming's recruiting class ranking from 2000. Scroll to the bottom and you will find it. Our Georgia Institute of Technology comes in with the #12 ranked class in the nation. Ahead of the likes of Georgia, Auburn, Miami, Oklahoma & LSU. We beat out powerhouse programs consistently in 2000. Players such as Hobie Holiday, Daryl Smith, Tony Hollings, J.P. Foschi & Keyaron Fox were all pursued by virtually everyone from the ACC and SEC. This class followed what was good a class in 99 as well but this 2000 class is what put the nation on notice that the program that Oleary had built was going to be a force on the national stage in recruiting.

http://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-inks-another-highly-regarded-football-class/

For the 2001 class I could not find a class ranking for that year. If anybody can find one I would love to see it. What I was able to find was various sites that listed our recruits accolades individually. This class was loaded with players that were rated among the top 50 in Georgia and top 100 in the south. For the sake of this discussion, I'm going to assume that players listed as one of the top 100 players in the south would be the equivalent of a Rivals 300 player today. Considering that players from the south make up over half the Rivals 300 annually I think that is a safe bet. Players that were listed as the top 100 players in the class of 01 that committed to Tech include:

1. Demarious Bilbo
2. Dawan landry
3. Reuben Houston
4. Tabugbo Anyansi
5. Kyle Wallace
6. Levon Thomas
7. Gerris Bower-Wilkinson was listed as one of the top players in California and a Prep Star top 285 in the nation player. I will include him in what would be a Rivals 300 player today.

Let's compare the class of 01, which I am sure would have been ranked in the top 25 at least, with Johnson's entire decade of recruiting in terms of top 300 players. Since the 08 class, here are the number of Rivals 300 recruits that Johnson has signed.

1. Denzel McCoy
2. Anthony Williams
3. Louis Young
4. Jabari hunt days
5. Justin Thomas
6. Bruce Jordan swilling
7. Jaylon King

So as you see, the 01 class had as many top 300 players in it alone as Johnson has signed during his entire tenure.

Obviously O'Leary chose to move on to ND after this season so our great run in recruiting stopped there. But I think it's reasonable to say that he was maximizing our potential on the recruiting trail and showing GT could compete for big time talent with anybody. It was a good time to be a Jacket and looking back I would have loved to see us hire from within the program to keep this good mojo rolling. I think it was a huge mistake to bring in Gailey who had extremely limited experience with the collegiate game and it clearly took him too long to figure out the recruiting game at GT. Our program went from 3 straight solid classes with many wins against the perceived powers in recruiting, to scouring the land looking for overlooked gems. Our recruiting took a huge hit as we fell into the 50's in terms of class rankings. Some will point to flunkgate in 03 and the response by the hill to that debacle as the reason Gailey's recruiting fell off the face of the earth. If that was the case though, how do you explain his class in 07? In 07 Gailey signed 8 4 star players. This was more than the rest of his classes combined. The argument can't be that there were more academically qualified 4 star kids in that year than all the years before combined can it? The answer is no. Gailey just nailed his top targets which is what recruiting boils down to. This was a top 20 class and proved what Oleary had proved just 6 years prior. That GT can recruit competitively with the national powers.

In 08 Gailey was following that class up with what was easily on pace to be his second best class and maybe challenge the 07 class proving 07 wasn't a fluke. Upon his firing in December he already had commits from multiple 4 star players. Uzzi, Chis Jackson, Sean Renfree and A.J. Jackson were all on board and we found ourselves back in the top 25 of the recruiting ranking before we let Gailey go. Chan Gailey had figured out how to recruit to Georgia tech just as George Oleary had. Both coaches showed with the right vision and with right assistant coaches that the ceiling for Georgia Tech in recruiting high enough to compete for conference championships.

I thank Gailey for what he did with the class of 07. He laid the foundation for what was Johnson's 2 most successful years with that class. And make no mistake Johnson coached his butt off with those teams. An ACC Championship and Orange Bowl berth. A victory over the mutts in his first year. He set the world on fire. The problem is however that almost all of the best players he has had while at tech were a result of Gailey's recruiting. He has never been able to find a back as good as Dwyer or a receiver as good Thomas. The best defensive player of his tenure is easily either Derrick Morgan or Morgan Burnette. I believe the best qb he has had was Nesbitt although I understand the argument for Thomas. (which incidentally is one of his few Rivals 300 recruits).

Johnson's classes have continually fallen short of top 40 status, having one ranked as low as 84, and his ability to bring in good talent at a consistent level is the reason for the downturn in our program. I believe like most on this board that Johnson is a good coach and that he does give us a unique advantage with his offense over schools with more talent. And I think that is great for a place like Navy which has no shot at recruiting high end talent.

That is certainly not the case at GT however. At least it wasn't when he took the job at GT. Upon arrival at GT he inherited a program that recruited top 25 classes in 4 of the 9 previous years and Gailey had it poised to be 5 out of 10. While nobody is going to confuse that with the recruiting being done at Alabama or FSU it is miles from where we are now. I would argue those numbers would look even better if Gailey hadn't of had such a steep learning curve upon arrival but it is what it is.

To sum it up, I believe this shows that GT recruited much better in the decade leading up to Johnson's arrival than we currently are and this certainly shows that we HAVE been able to win recruiting battles with the perceived powers in our region before Johnson arrived. It also shows the argument about a limited curriculum and it's effects on recruiting are overblown. To my knowledge our course offerings have not shrunk over the past decade. Also if you believe that Johnson gives us a better chance to win with less talent, which I believe to be a reasonable argument, you must also be willing to accept the fact he is a significant part of the reason we are going to have less talent. His offense nor his personality are conducive to luring the type of recruits we proved we could get before his arrival. Honestly both act as a repellant.

It all boils down to wins and losses however. And right now he is not winning at a level that is up to where the programs standards have been for at least 3 decades now. So in discussion of what our program would recruit like without Johnson, let's not make us to be Kansas or Indiana or Oregon State. Before Johnson got here we recruited just fine. And we will do so after he is gone as well if we have the right leadership.
First opportunity I've had to read your post. In short, excellent information. Swarmers should appreciate (agree or not) with the time you spent putting this info together.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,574
Good day team.

There has been a ton of discussion recently about the challenges Georgia Tech faces on the recruiting trail and what our reasonable expectations should be as a program in this area. As most of us agree, a programs ability to recruit talent is one of, if not the most important barometer in determining a program's success. Generally speaking, the teams that recruit the best are the teams that are contending for championships. While there are certainly outliers, it is hard to point to a program that is consistently successful that does not recruit at a high level. Likewise it is also hard to point to a school that is consistently recruiting at or near the bottom of their conference that finishes consistently in the middle of the pack of their conference.

With this being the case, I think it is important to understand how Georgia Tech recruited in the decade leading up to Paul Johnson and how they have done in the decade since he has been here. I understand there have been some changes to the collegiate landscape during the span we are looking at and can agree these changes might have caused our ceiling to be somewhat lower than it was at the turn of the century. However, some of the arguments that are used to support the current level of recruiting are simply not based in fact. Arguments such as the restrictive nature of our curriculum and the effect it has on recruiting and the belief that we have never been able to win head to head recruiting battles with the national powers that are in our neighborhood as Stansbury says.

Please note: It was more difficult finding information on the Oleary years because they were just before the Rivals or Scout datebases started keeping track of "class rankings." If anyone has anything to add from a data perspective I certainly welcome it.

http://www.espn.com/recruiting/s/2000/0203/333209.html

The link above is Tom Lemming's recruiting class ranking from 2000. Scroll to the bottom and you will find it. Our Georgia Institute of Technology comes in with the #12 ranked class in the nation. Ahead of the likes of Georgia, Auburn, Miami, Oklahoma & LSU. We beat out powerhouse programs consistently in 2000. Players such as Hobie Holiday, Daryl Smith, Tony Hollings, J.P. Foschi & Keyaron Fox were all pursued by virtually everyone from the ACC and SEC. This class followed what was good a class in 99 as well but this 2000 class is what put the nation on notice that the program that Oleary had built was going to be a force on the national stage in recruiting.

http://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-inks-another-highly-regarded-football-class/

For the 2001 class I could not find a class ranking for that year. If anybody can find one I would love to see it. What I was able to find was various sites that listed our recruits accolades individually. This class was loaded with players that were rated among the top 50 in Georgia and top 100 in the south. For the sake of this discussion, I'm going to assume that players listed as one of the top 100 players in the south would be the equivalent of a Rivals 300 player today. Considering that players from the south make up over half the Rivals 300 annually I think that is a safe bet. Players that were listed as the top 100 players in the class of 01 that committed to Tech include:

1. Demarious Bilbo
2. Dawan landry
3. Reuben Houston
4. Tabugbo Anyansi
5. Kyle Wallace
6. Levon Thomas
7. Gerris Bower-Wilkinson was listed as one of the top players in California and a Prep Star top 285 in the nation player. I will include him in what would be a Rivals 300 player today.

Let's compare the class of 01, which I am sure would have been ranked in the top 25 at least, with Johnson's entire decade of recruiting in terms of top 300 players. Since the 08 class, here are the number of Rivals 300 recruits that Johnson has signed.

1. Denzel McCoy
2. Anthony Williams
3. Louis Young
4. Jabari hunt days
5. Justin Thomas
6. Bruce Jordan swilling
7. Jaylon King

So as you see, the 01 class had as many top 300 players in it alone as Johnson has signed during his entire tenure.

Obviously O'Leary chose to move on to ND after this season so our great run in recruiting stopped there. But I think it's reasonable to say that he was maximizing our potential on the recruiting trail and showing GT could compete for big time talent with anybody. It was a good time to be a Jacket and looking back I would have loved to see us hire from within the program to keep this good mojo rolling. I think it was a huge mistake to bring in Gailey who had extremely limited experience with the collegiate game and it clearly took him too long to figure out the recruiting game at GT. Our program went from 3 straight solid classes with many wins against the perceived powers in recruiting, to scouring the land looking for overlooked gems. Our recruiting took a huge hit as we fell into the 50's in terms of class rankings. Some will point to flunkgate in 03 and the response by the hill to that debacle as the reason Gailey's recruiting fell off the face of the earth. If that was the case though, how do you explain his class in 07? In 07 Gailey signed 8 4 star players. This was more than the rest of his classes combined. The argument can't be that there were more academically qualified 4 star kids in that year than all the years before combined can it? The answer is no. Gailey just nailed his top targets which is what recruiting boils down to. This was a top 20 class and proved what Oleary had proved just 6 years prior. That GT can recruit competitively with the national powers.

In 08 Gailey was following that class up with what was easily on pace to be his second best class and maybe challenge the 07 class proving 07 wasn't a fluke. Upon his firing in December he already had commits from multiple 4 star players. Uzzi, Chis Jackson, Sean Renfree and A.J. Jackson were all on board and we found ourselves back in the top 25 of the recruiting ranking before we let Gailey go. Chan Gailey had figured out how to recruit to Georgia tech just as George Oleary had. Both coaches showed with the right vision and with right assistant coaches that the ceiling for Georgia Tech in recruiting high enough to compete for conference championships.

I thank Gailey for what he did with the class of 07. He laid the foundation for what was Johnson's 2 most successful years with that class. And make no mistake Johnson coached his butt off with those teams. An ACC Championship and Orange Bowl berth. A victory over the mutts in his first year. He set the world on fire. The problem is however that almost all of the best players he has had while at tech were a result of Gailey's recruiting. He has never been able to find a back as good as Dwyer or a receiver as good Thomas. The best defensive player of his tenure is easily either Derrick Morgan or Morgan Burnette. I believe the best qb he has had was Nesbitt although I understand the argument for Thomas. (which incidentally is one of his few Rivals 300 recruits).

Johnson's classes have continually fallen short of top 40 status, having one ranked as low as 84, and his ability to bring in good talent at a consistent level is the reason for the downturn in our program. I believe like most on this board that Johnson is a good coach and that he does give us a unique advantage with his offense over schools with more talent. And I think that is great for a place like Navy which has no shot at recruiting high end talent.

That is certainly not the case at GT however. At least it wasn't when he took the job at GT. Upon arrival at GT he inherited a program that recruited top 25 classes in 4 of the 9 previous years and Gailey had it poised to be 5 out of 10. While nobody is going to confuse that with the recruiting being done at Alabama or FSU it is miles from where we are now. I would argue those numbers would look even better if Gailey hadn't of had such a steep learning curve upon arrival but it is what it is.

To sum it up, I believe this shows that GT recruited much better in the decade leading up to Johnson's arrival than we currently are and this certainly shows that we HAVE been able to win recruiting battles with the perceived powers in our region before Johnson arrived. It also shows the argument about a limited curriculum and it's effects on recruiting are overblown. To my knowledge our course offerings have not shrunk over the past decade. Also if you believe that Johnson gives us a better chance to win with less talent, which I believe to be a reasonable argument, you must also be willing to accept the fact he is a significant part of the reason we are going to have less talent. His offense nor his personality are conducive to luring the type of recruits we proved we could get before his arrival. Honestly both act as a repellant.

It all boils down to wins and losses however. And right now he is not winning at a level that is up to where the programs standards have been for at least 3 decades now. So in discussion of what our program would recruit like without Johnson, let's not make us to be Kansas or Indiana or Oregon State. Before Johnson got here we recruited just fine. And we will do so after he is gone as well if we have the right leadership.

But how many of those stellar recruits could get in under today's standards? They've tightened up since O'Leary. No one knows the answer to that question, I would imagine.
 

GTL

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
255
But how many of those stellar recruits could get in under today's standards? They've tightened up since O'Leary. No one knows the answer to that question, I would imagine.
Good question. The hill was glad to get rid of O’Leary and clamped down on exceptions and admissions. Part of that was also due to the NCAA’s requirement of advancement toward a degree that came down about the time O’Leary left. Which still continues to hurt us.
 

steebu

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
625
Good question. The hill was glad to get rid of O’Leary and clamped down on exceptions and admissions. Part of that was also due to the NCAA’s requirement of advancement toward a degree that came down about the time O’Leary left. Which still continues to hurt us.

It's an interesting point: O'Leary had one of the worst graduation rates - in the high 40's and low 50's - during his tenure. I don't know that his recruiting classes would have been much better than Gailey's or Johnson's given the APR and what it is today. Johnson's graduation rate hit an all-time high in the 80's this past year. As Johnson has pointed out, the APR "punishes" schools that care about academics (think Rice, Purdue, Northwestern) and doesn't do squat for schools that hide their athletes behind made-up degrees. At GT there's nowhere to hide:

NCAA: "Is so-and-so making progress towards his Civil Engineering degree?"
GT: "Well, he's struggling a bit in calculus, but he'll be OK by springtime."

NCAA: "Is so-and-so making progress towards his 'Using Your Smartphone To Tweet' degree?"
UGA: "Well, he's struggling a bit turning his phone on, but he'll be OK by springtime."
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
recruiting Model01.jpg
Posted this a long time ago, it still holds true.
 

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
4,938
View attachment 4289 Posted this a long time ago, it still holds true.

Just curious. If you look at your Venn diagram, is the overlap of D1 level FB players/eligible for GT/ academic major at GT significantly smaller than the overlap of D1 level FB/eligible for Alabama/recruited by Bama? Both intersections are quite small when you think about it....does Bama do a better job of closing on its small pool of targets than we do? Or is the pool of applicants (the overlap of the three subsets) just significantly larger for Bama than for us?
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Just curious. If you look at your Venn diagram, is the overlap of D1 level FB players/eligible for GT/ academic major at GT significantly smaller than the overlap of D1 level FB/eligible for Alabama/recruited by Bama? Both intersections are quite small when you think about it....does Bama do a better job of closing on its small pool of targets than we do? Or is the pool of applicants (the overlap of the three subsets) just significantly larger for Bama than for us?
Far larger......the "desired major" at any other school is going to be much bigger, "academically eligible" would not have a subset at almost any other school.
 

MountainBuzzMan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,707
Location
South Forsyth
View attachment 4289 Posted this a long time ago, it still holds true.

Thanks for posting this again. Stating facts that show that Tech is at a disadvantage is often interpreted as settling by the squeaky wheels here.
All they want to show is how much better things were before under a coach that could not cut it under the current restrictions.
The only options are:
1. We either need to add some simple majors
2. We need a support team for recruiting that is larger than our competitors to find the rare players who can bring us to the next level. We cant do it with having such a small recruiting team.

We need money and lots of it.
 

THWG16

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
811
Or fans wide-awake to the fact that we've had 2 of 3 losing seasons and missed-bowls recently and are recovering from an excitement-killing 1-3 start that had losses to 2 teams we should've defeated. Not sure how that translates to being in a good spot. Personally, I think anyone who answers Yes to 2018 being better is a Scheme First, School Second sort of fan, in love with offensive stats more than victories. 'Cause we have plenty of one but not much of the other lately.

Again though, a question better asked at the end of the season, when 2018 can be put into better perspective.
I don’t see how you could say we’re better now than in 08! How many nfl caliber players were on that team? And how many are on this one ?
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
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Southeastern Michigan
Or fans wide-awake to the fact that we've had 2 of 3 losing seasons and missed-bowls recently and are recovering from an excitement-killing 1-3 start that had losses to 2 teams we should've defeated. Not sure how that translates to being in a good spot. Personally, I think anyone who answers Yes to 2018 being better is a Scheme First, School Second sort of fan, in love with offensive stats more than victories. 'Cause we have plenty of one but not much of the other lately.

Again though, a question better asked at the end of the season, when 2018 can be put into better perspective.
People that voted yes are more 'Student Athlete First" "Winning Football games second"
 
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People that voted yes are more 'Student Athlete First" "Winning Football games second"

That's probably a very accurate observation, Animal.

My opinion is that my degree won't be tainted by adding some 'football majors' but nonetheless, I think you're onto something here.
 

jacketup

Helluva Engineer
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It's an interesting point: O'Leary had one of the worst graduation rates - in the high 40's and low 50's - during his tenure. "

I have previously pointed out why this isn't true, but I'll post it again.

The NCAA calculates graduation rates by recruiting class. Flunkgate happened under Gailey, not under O'Leary. But those recruiting classes were O'Leary's not Gailey's. Gailey's failure to monitor class attendance and academic work was a black mark against O'Leary's graduation rates.

For those that don't remember Flunkgate, when Gailey came to Tech he thought he was still an NFL coach or a coach at an easy school. He didn't monitor class attendance or academic progress. The kids were used to O'Leary who ran all things with an iron fist. Since Gailey was lax, so were the kids, and we had a major academic problem after year 1 of Gailey.

To Gailey's credit, he learned. He put academic monitoring in place. His recruiting improved. He learned to be a good head coach at this level and this institution, and then we fired him. He had one flaw, and that is that he would not hire a quality offensive coordinator. Pat Nix? Last I heard he was coaching high school ball.

Then we hired a good offensive coordinator. He is also the head coach. Recruiting, defense and special teams have been subpar under this head coach. Is there another BCS school where the head coach is also a coordinator? In modern college football I'm not sure it's possible to do both.
 
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