Is Collins nasty enough to be a HC ?

[boger2337]

Come on man. That‘s like saying why don’t our basketball players just play like Jordan and LeBron. Alabama is the top college program of all time and currently has the greatest college head coach in history. Belichek is the NFL goat. Yeah, I’m sure Collins would have loved to have walked into those situations as well. Guess what, the coach of the Lions comes from Belichek and has the same demeanor. His team sucks and no free agents want to sign there. We had a no nonsense coach for a decade and please remind me how many 4 and 5 stars did he get to sign? I kind of like the Andy Reid and Dabo style where players actually like their coach and free agents want to sign there.

I mean I get it, but the no nonsense isn't why CPJ didn't get 4 and 5 stars .
I like Collins a lot. But I also think puckering up to 18 yr olds is a bad model. Dabo is a harda$$ behind the scenes. I don't see that with Collins.

 

[DaDodd]

Exactly. All GT fans will benefit from Collins 2-3 years of brand building when we get high level players to sign here. You think Gibbs signs here if he didn’t buy into Collins marketing? This is all about changing the last 20 year perception of GT football for kids who are 12-18 years old. Remember we are program that had Calvin Johnson on the roster and our coach didn’t use him (see Wake). We had back to back coaches who were about as charismatic as a 2x4 and we wonder why 14-18 year old males are drawn to other programs. We finally have a coach who pumps up GT and some want to make fun of him. The dude got Jamious Griffin before he had a staff. He got Gibbs who is clearly our best player in a decade after a 3-8 season. He got an Elite 11 QB. Give him time and he will win a lot of games. If Collins had a Calvin Johnson he’d be targeted about 50 times a game. His use of Gibbs after 2 games is already better than any player usage our last 2 coaches had. High level recruits see this and are buying in. But you gotta give him more than a class and a half.

Come on man. That‘s like saying why don’t our basketball players just play like Jordan and LeBron. Alabama is the top college program of all time and currently has the greatest college head coach in history. Belichek is the NFL goat. Yeah, I’m sure Collins would have loved to have walked into those situations as well. Guess what, the coach of the Lions comes from Belichek and has the same demeanor. His team sucks and no free agents want to sign there. We had a no nonsense coach for a decade and please remind me how many 4 and 5 stars did he get to sign? I kind of like the Andy Reid and Dabo style where players actually like their coach and free agents want to sign there.

I think you're missing my point. You're proving my argument. Yes he has gotten us some great recruits but that is only good if you coach them well. Hints Calvin Johnson. CPJ won games with 2 and 3 stars because he coached them up and they were disciplined. (PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying I want CPJ or the triple option back) Imagine if CGC would coach up these 4 and 5 stars. Of course he's doing a great job recruiting but he will not do them any favors if he doesn't coach them up. What good is it to have a team full of talent but lack good coaching. (ex: 2006 GT, current Falcons). The issues I see have absolutely nothing to do with talent. These are all coaching issues that can be fixed with good coaching. And some of the issues have nothing to do with the players, it's the in-game coaching decisions themselves. I'm not saying I want a Saban or Belichek coaching style. I want a Reid and Dabo style too. But Reid and Dabo are also smart coaches of the game, not just recruiting. Good recruiting is nothing without good coaching. We have enough talent on this team right now to be competitive and win if coached well.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Say what you want about David Cutcliffe, but he has raised the level of play for Duke. Duke has rewarded him and supported him enough that he's turned down several jobs over the year...he turned down Tennessee multiple times and that fanbase worships him for what he did with Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, and Heath Shuler.

Okay - David Cutcliffe is an arrogant *******.

Duke spends tons more money than we do. What do they have to show for it? In the last 25 years, we have never finished last in the ACC and only have 2 years below 0.500 in conference play. Duke has finished dead last of all teams TWELVE TIMES, including going 0-fer a bunch. And they are well on their way AGAIN at 0-4.

 

[MidtownJacket]

I mean I get it, but the no nonsense isn't why CPJ didn't get 4 and 5 stars .
I like Collins a lot. But I also think puckering up to 18 yr olds is a bad model. Dabo is a harda$$ behind the scenes. I don't see that with Collins.

Real talk, are you behind the scenes at either program to be able to make that statement?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Duke spends tons more money than we do. What do they have to show for it?

A bunch of wins against us since they committed to their football program...

 

[Deleted member 2897]

A bunch of wins against us since they committed to their football program...

So what. In the last 25 years, they have 5 years where they went 0-8, 5 more years where they went 1-7, and they’ve only finished above 0.500 in conference play twice. They finished in dead last place not just in the division, but in the entire conference 12 times and are currently sitting at 0-4 again.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So what. In the last 25 years, they have 5 years where they went 0-8, 5 more years where they went 1-7, and they’ve only finished above 0.500 in conference play twice. They finished in dead last place not just in the division, but in the entire conference 12 times and are currently sitting at 0-4 again.

Why are you going back 25 years? They committed to their program when they hired Cutcliffe. The first 3-4 years under him were typical 3-9 Duke football seasons, but then they started winning games. Since 2012 they have been to a bowl 6 out of 8 seasons. No one is saying they are a football juggernaut, but their spending has them trending in a positive direction considering the history of Duke football. I get that people don't like Cutcliffe, but he's a pretty good coach.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Why are you going back 25 years? They committed to their program when they hired Cutcliffe. The first 3-4 years under him were typical 3-9 Duke football seasons, but then they started winning games. Since 2012 they have been to a bowl 6 out of 8 seasons. No one is saying they are a football juggernaut, but their spending has them trending in a positive direction considering the history of Duke football. I get that people don't like Cutcliffe, but he's a pretty good coach.

Pick your time frame. In the last 25 years, they've been over 0.500 in the ACC only twice. This year they are 0-4. The last time they had a record over 0.500 in the ACC was 2014 - so 2020 will mark the 6th straight year in a row. For a team that spends $30m+ per year on football, if the coach was really that good you think they would win some games.

 

[boger2337]

Real talk, are you behind the scenes at either program to be able to make that statement?

There have been several players saying Dabo is more like a dad. He will best your a$$ when you mess up, but also your best encouragement when you need it.

Collins seems all sunshine and rainbows. Players haven't said anything to deviate from that assumption.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Pick your time frame. In the last 25 years, they've been over 0.500 in the ACC only twice. This year they are 0-4. The last time they had a record over 0.500 in the ACC was 2014 - so 2020 will mark the 6th straight year in a row. For a team that spends $30m+ per year on football, if the coach was really that good you think they would win some games.

Also, don't forget that in the last several years, Duke has head a Bye week before playing us 4 times, while we have only had a Bye week before playing them 1 time.

 

[DaDodd]

There have been several players saying Dabo is more like a dad. He will best your a$$ when you mess up, but also your best encouragement when you need it.

Collins seems all sunshine and rainbows. Players haven't said anything to deviate from that assumption.

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being positive but sometimes I think he thinks that if he's too hard on them then they won't like him. He's a player's coach and wants to be liked. He wants what's best for them but sometimes what's best for them is being tough on them. Positive and negative reinforcement both work. I am for more positive reinforcement like CGC but sometimes negative reinforcement can effective where positive isn't. Its about finding a balance. It's just like being a parent when raising kids.

But this is from my outsiders perspective. I have no idea what goes on in locker room.

 

[boger2337]

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being positive but sometimes I think he thinks that if he's too hard on them then they won't like him. He's a player's coach and wants to be liked. He wants what's best for them but sometimes what's best for them is being tough on them. Positive and negative reinforcement both work. I am for more positive reinforcement like CGC but sometimes negative reinforcement can effective where positive isn't. Its about finding a balance. It's just like being a parent when raising kids.

But this is from my outsiders perspective. I have no idea what goes on in locker room.

Agree on everything you said. Positive is always the better option, but tough love is needed. Shock is key to get people out of a rut. When someone loves you no matter what you do what keeps you from slacking off? Respect? You cannot depend on respect because plenty of people don't care.

 

[Vespidae]

I think it’s too early to tell. I do think we are playing better and that’s a good thing.

re his press conferences, I can’t watch them either. They are exactly Like Butch Jones and his “brick by brick”, “champions of life”, “leadership reps” vocabulary.

What ultimately sunk Jones was he lost the donor base. I get collins isn’t speaking to the donor base, but if season tix drop and complaints are high ... it’s a tough situation. So, he better recognize the money and haVinh something for all stakeholders.

 

[stech81]

I agree. There's nothing wrong with being positive but sometimes I think he thinks that if he's too hard on them then they won't like him. He's a player's coach and wants to be liked. He wants what's best for them but sometimes what's best for them is being tough on them. Positive and negative reinforcement both work. I am for more positive reinforcement like CGC but sometimes negative reinforcement can effective where positive isn't. Its about finding a balance. It's just like being a parent when raising kids.

But this is from my outsiders perspective. I have no idea what goes on in locker room.

Being positive is fine being liked is ok but being respected is the most important thing a coach can have without respect from the players you will not consistently win.

 

[deeznats]

I'll be honest. I like CGC and I respect him for letting the players vote and be aware of other things going on in the world but I can't listen to any more interviews of him. He says the same thing over and over. I like that he takes ownership of the mistakes but he needs to put that into action in my opinion. I wish reporters would ask him more in depth questions about the play on the field and that he would answer them directly without using the words "effort", "high level", "elite", "culture", "404", "for the city", etc. Talk is cheap. I get he is trying to promote the program, but there hasn't been much to promote. Its like having a fancy manual transmission supercar and the person trying driving it doesn't really now how to drive stick. It's time for the product on the field to do the talking. That is the best promotional tool. I'm not expecting the product to win every game but I want to see it improve and look well coached.

Like the saying goes... you have to dress for the job you want, not the job you have. I don't mean he is angling for another job, but he is just talking up his vision of GT will be. It's definitely ad nauseum for the diehard GT fan that sees all the pressers (myself included), but you have to think of the recruits, media, etc that only see a subset of what we see. If you think about it from that perspective, it makes sense to be repetitive because he wants to get the message to everyone.

We've made progress in so many areas while regressing in others (turnovers). But, in my opinion at least, there are valid excuses for the regressions which are freshman seeing the field at key positions, lack of depth and the amount of injuries at other positions. I'd love more wins but I'm content with the progress, especially considering this is an exceptional year in many ways. Playing a freshman QB with the limitations we've had in practices is not an easy thing to do.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Real talk, are you behind the scenes at either program to be able to make that statement?

If we don't start winning some games, who is doing the "puckering" to whom will become a moot point.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I think it’s too early to tell. I do think we are playing better and that’s a good thing.

re his press conferences, I can’t watch them either. They are exactly Like Butch Jones and his “brick by brick”, “champions of life”, “leadership reps” vocabulary.

What ultimately sunk Jones was he lost the donor base. I get collins isn’t speaking to the donor base, but if season tix drop and complaints are high ... it’s a tough situation. So, he better recognize the money and haVinh something for all stakeholders.

I believe Butch Jones was a low IQ head coach - I don't know this, but that is the perception I got. I hope, for our sake, CGC is not a low IQ (football strategy) head coach, but I do believe the jury is still out. GT will always need the smartest guy in the room, in my opinion. I believe O'Leary and Ross were very much that way against most of the other head coaches they faced. Of course, CPJ's acumen is proven, although many did not like his brand of football. I am rooting for CGC to do something I believe is impossible at GT - play the big boy game and win the big boy (factory) way.

 

[alagold]

I believe Butch Jones was a low IQ head coach - I don't know this, but that is the perception I got. I hope, for our sake, CGC is not a low IQ (football strategy) head coach, but I do believe the jury is still out. GT will always need the smartest guy in the room, in my opinion. I believe O'Leary and Ross were very much that way against most of the other head coaches they faced. Of course, CPJ's acumen is proven, although many did not like his brand of football. I am rooting for CGC to do something I believe is impossible at GT - play the big boy game and win the big boy (factory) way.

I agree on Jones.I saw him give up a 50 yd YD pass in last seconds of a half when he didn't put 5 guys on the goal-line for some reason.It led to the loss..

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You have to get the players first and foremost. The first few years of building Dabo was doing the exact same thing as Collins. Every press conference he would say IPTAY twenty times. Once he got the players and the factory got going he could actually get on them because he had depth. Saban has recruits lined up to play for him so he can be the grumpy guy because Bama sells itself as an NFL pipeline. Collins doesn’t have that luxury. GT football has had a stain on it since O’Leary bolted for ND. We hired 2 grumpy old guys who did nothing to sell GT but instead turned us into a gimmick in the eyes of high school players. We finally hired a younger, charismatic coach and bang, we sign 2 stud RB’s and one of the top dual threat QB’s in the country and you guys want to call him a gimmick. That’s ridiculous.

How many of you actually talk to high school players and coaches. My son plays high school football and I purposely ask players, parents, and coaches, about GT. And they all say the same thing - “ it’s about time GT tries again”. I loved Johnson’s system but a system without players is what we saw the last few seasons and no top player wanted to play in that system. Thankfully Collins has the support of the admin and the time it’s going to take to flip the roster.

 

[WreckinGT]

You have to get the players first and foremost. The first few years of building Dabo was doing the exact same thing as Collins. Every press conference he would say IPTAY twenty times. Once he got the players and the factory got going he could actually get on them because he had depth. Saban has recruits lined up to play for him so he can be the grumpy guy because Bama sells itself as an NFL pipeline. Collins doesn’t have that luxury. GT football has had a stain on it since O’Leary bolted for ND. We hired 2 grumpy old guys who did nothing to sell GT but instead turned us into a gimmick in the eyes of high school players. We finally hired a younger, charismatic coach and bang, we sign 2 stud RB’s and one of the top dual threat QB’s in the country and you guys want to call him a gimmick. That’s ridiculous.

How many of you actually talk to high school players and coaches. My son plays high school football and I purposely ask players, parents, and coaches, about GT. And they all say the same thing - “ it’s about time GT tries again”. I loved Johnson’s system but a system without players is what we saw the last few seasons and no top player wanted to play in that system. Thankfully Collins has the support of the admin and the time it’s going to take to flip the roster.

Honest question since you obviously have high expectations for CGC. What level of recruiting are you expecting? Are you expecting him to consistently bring in top 100 players? Are you expecting to eventually recruit in the top 10 or top 15 consistently? You seem certain about what CGC is building towards, what is he building towards?