Is Collins nasty enough to be a HC ?

[BainbridgeJacket]

From what I've seen, I think the positional development is improved dramatically from CPJ. I think S&C is improved. I think the discipline and game readiness leaves a lot to be desired. We seem consistently unable to defend an opponents first drive on defense and only seem to move the ball well on offense in scripted situations. It's almost like our defensive staff needs to get better at scouting the opponents and offensive staff needs to get better about adjusting play calls on the fly. Our players still seem lost a lot of the time and I question the fit of a lot of our defensive players to the scheme we're running. I think adjustments need to be made to the way we practice. It reminds me of Paul Hewitt.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

A lovely thought. One that not even TStan agrees with.

Todd has stated our strategy many times. We hope to land a good recruit. But there is NO expectation we are going to outrecruit our neighborhood. Our plan is to develop talent. Yes, a diamond will fall in our lap, but at the end of the day, we’re polishers.

So many on this board refuse to believe our AD.

When did I say we would out recruit our neighborhood? Every team within a 6 hour drive from Atlanta out recruits us - UGA, Clemson, South Carolina, Alabama, Auburn, FSU, Florida , Tennessee, UNC. You can add the Mississippi schools as well.

But there is no reason all those teams are in the top 25 and we are back in the 40’s or 50’s. Collins will get us into the top 30 with an occasional top 20. Think about this - within a month he got Griffin. In his 2nd class he got Gibbs and Sims. I expect by his 4th and 5th class he’ll be bringing in a fair share of 4 stars like the 2007 class. At that point the perception of GT football by middle school and high school players will no longer be about the “gimmick” but rather exciting players in the city. By then Mason, Griffin, Gibbs, and Brown would all have been drafted and hopefully UGA will still be staring 1980 in the face.

There are so many good players in this state but we haven’t even been in the running for guys like a Gibbs. As I mentioned, if it wasn’t for Collins, Gibbs would be playing for a SEC school right now. We don’t have to out recruit Clemson and UGA, we just have to be a viable alternative for guys like Gibbs who aren’t the #1 targets of a factory. So instead of them going to Miss St. or Tennessee they stay home in ATL.

 

[Jmonty71]

Collins needs to get into the face of some players time to time. However; I think he is trying to build their confidence up. So, screaming at them isn't advisable. I do think he needs to be all over the referees and how much they are screwing us, in games. He should be on that like white on rice. Too many missed holding calls. We have been penalized on some ticky tack plays, while the other teams have done worse. If it was me, I would bending that side line judges hear left and right. Pointing out all the mistakes that they are making. But, that just me....

 

[MidtownJacket]

Collins needs to get into the face of some players time to time. However; I think he is trying to build their confidence up. So, screaming at them isn't advisable. I do think he needs to be all over the referees and how much they are screwing us, in games. He should be on that like white on rice. Too many missed holding calls. We have been penalized on some ticky tack plays, while the other teams have done worse. If it was me, I would bending that side line judges hear left and right. Pointing out all the mistakes that they are making. But, that just me....

I agree with working the refs. We need to be cutting up tape after each game and sending them all to the ACC saying, "Tell me, was this a call you're proud of". No need to be a jerk to the zebras in game, that just hoses you on judgement calls. After a few weeks of us sending the cutups though we will start to get a reputation as a squad who won't take the trash we have been spoon-fed in both football and basketball.

 

[4shotB]

I agree with working the refs. We need to be cutting up tape after each game and sending them all to the ACC saying, "Tell me, was this a call you're proud of". No need to be a jerk to the zebras in game, that just hoses you on judgement calls. After a few weeks of us sending the cutups though we will start to get a reputation as a squad who won't take the trash we have been spoon-fed in both football and basketball.

I know I am probably in the minority but I think the refereeing is no better or worse for us than it is for anybody else. Do I agree with every call? Do I think all refs are equal in their interpretation and application of the rules? The answer to these is no. While I support any idea that raises or improves the level of officiating, I think 100% of our energies should be internally focused on the things over which we have control.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I know I am probably in the minority but I think the refereeing is no better or worse for us than it is for anybody else. Do I agree with every call? Do I think all refs are equal in their interpretation and application of the rules? The answer to these is no. While I support any idea that raises or improves the level of officiating, I think 100% of our energies should be internally focused on the things over which we have control.

This.

 

[SarasotaJacket]

Its hard for me to watch his press conferences because he says the same thing every time and I don't get anything new from them. That's not an attack on him personally. He's doing his job and answering the questions given to him. You're right about watching Patenaude and Thacker's press conferences. But I would also like our head coach more involved and talked about the xs and os as well. And he does do that from time to time but it's always followed but by we will get better and I personally haven't seen that. I like fancy cars too but I want the driver to be a well taught on how to drive it without being reckless.

I agree there's not much to get our of the pressers and I think those are for the media more than the fans. We always want to hear about injuries and he is tight lipped about that, as was the last staff. I think more and more our coaches want to give as little to the competition for game prep as they can, so no specifics about player usage/schemes and injuries also. Sort of the Belichek model. Funny on the other hand Kirby spews all kinds of stuff at his pressers it seems.

 

[Jmonty71]

I agree with working the refs. We need to be cutting up tape after each game and sending them all to the ACC saying, "Tell me, was this a call you're proud of". No need to be a jerk to the zebras in game, that just hoses you on judgement calls. After a few weeks of us sending the cutups though we will start to get a reputation as a squad who won't take the trash we have been spoon-fed in both football and basketball.

I agree working the refs over is a proven tract. Coaches that have years of calling refs out, seem to get the edge on judgement calls. Last time you seen Saban or Sweeny get a plain out crappy call / no call. But, again... I see the other side. Sean Payton works the refs over and has done so for years. You saw how that worked for him a couple of years ago.

 

[Vespidae]

But there is no reason all those teams are in the top 25 and we are back in the 40’s or 50’s.

Sure there is.

The number of players in the NFL by college are Alabama (56), LSU (41), Florida (39), UGA (32) and Clemson (29). That's in our "neighborhood". So if you're a talent, you're likelihood of making it to the NFL with any of those teams is pretty high. Georgia Tech has 6. Six.

So the theory is ... Collins can change that! So let's see ... there's roughly 300,000 high school seniors playing football. There's roughly 40,000 NCAA football players split among FBS, FCS, DII and DIII. If we assume each FBS team (there are 127) has 85 scholarships and one-fourth of those are freshman, We can break it down as follows, (averages):

No of Five Star Recruits Available: 30
No of Four Star Recruits Available: 380
No of Three Star Recruits Available: 1328
No of Two Star Recruits Available: 1859 (but only 961 will be signed)

Now, Tech's equity "share" of blue chips is (30+380)/127 = 3.2 or 3 (or 4, whatever). If Tech is recruiting in GA, which produced 36 Blue Chips last year, that means Tech will sign 10% of the available talent. Really? How many can even get into Tech? And don't forget ... we're competing against Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, and Clemson for the same talent.

Oh ... and btw ... how many blue chips actually pan out? About 50%.

TStan was right. By sheer numbers, Tech CAN recruit the best 3 stars (the mere fact there are more of them suggests there are also more of them who could enroll and stay enrolled at Tech) ... and use Tech "science" in terms of the best S&C, nutrition, etc ... to develop them into five stars over time. He said that was the strategy, it is our strategy, and it's how he's looking to invest money to support that.

FWIW, I did an analysis of Clemson's team 2 years ago. The top degrees are a) Parks and Recreation, b) Undecided and c) Pre-business (that's a freshman program and I'm shocked at the number of Clemson seniors still in a freshman program. I guess neither Clemson nor the NCAA want to know.)

Long story short ... we may get the occasional 4-star and I'm happy to celebrate that. But to think we are going to dramatically change the percentage we get at the expense of factories is lunacy. Tech has a high bar (SAT scores for one), limited degrees, and a different culture.

If you think Collins is going to land 10 four-stars a year .... good luck with that. You're going to be very unhappy.

 

[Scubapro]

Sure there is.

The number of players in the NFL by college are Alabama (56), LSU (41), Florida (39), UGA (32) and Clemson (29). That's in our "neighborhood". So if you're a talent, you're likelihood of making it to the NFL with any of those teams is pretty high. Georgia Tech has 6. Six.

So the theory is ... Collins can change that! So let's see ... there's roughly 300,000 high school seniors playing football. There's roughly 40,000 NCAA football players split among FBS, FCS, DII and DIII. If we assume each FBS team (there are 127) has 85 scholarships and one-fourth of those are freshman, We can break it down as follows, (averages):

No of Five Star Recruits Available: 30
No of Four Star Recruits Available: 380
No of Three Star Recruits Available: 1328
No of Two Star Recruits Available: 1859 (but only 961 will be signed)

Now, Tech's equity "share" of blue chips is (30+380)/127 = 3.2 or 3 (or 4, whatever). If Tech is recruiting in GA, which produced 36 Blue Chips last year, that means Tech will sign 10% of the available talent. Really? How many can even get into Tech? And don't forget ... we're competing against Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, and Clemson for the same talent.

Oh ... and btw ... how many blue chips actually pan out? About 50%.

TStan was right. By sheer numbers, Tech CAN recruit the best 3 stars (the mere fact there are more of them suggests there are also more of them who could enroll and stay enrolled at Tech) ... and use Tech "science" in terms of the best S&C, nutrition, etc ... to develop them into five stars over time. He said that was the strategy, it is our strategy, and it's how he's looking to invest money to support that.

FWIW, I did an analysis of Clemson's team 2 years ago. The top degrees are a) Parks and Recreation, b) Undecided and c) Pre-business (that's a freshman program and I'm shocked at the number of Clemson seniors still in a freshman program. I guess neither Clemson nor the NCAA want to know.)

Long story short ... we may get the occasional 4-star and I'm happy to celebrate that. But to think we are going to dramatically change the percentage we get at the expense of factories is lunacy. Tech has a high bar (SAT scores for one), limited degrees, and a different culture.

If you think Collins is going to land 10 four-stars a year .... good luck with that. You're going to be very unhappy.

Good analysis IMO...that being said...given the coaching prowess of his staff he MUST get a pile of four-star players each year in order to be successful.

 

[Vespidae]

Good analysis IMO...that being said...given the coaching prowess of his staff he MUST get a pile of four-star players each year in order to be successful.

I don’t disagree. But define “a pile”. It becomes pretty easy to estimate the probabilities of that happening.

I’m hopeful Geoff, in 2 years, can hire EXCELLENT assistants. Who may very well make up any of his game day shortcomings. He might start by hiring CPJ. He’s unemployed anyway... (joke)

 

[MidtownJacket]

I know I am probably in the minority but I think the refereeing is no better or worse for us than it is for anybody else. Do I agree with every call? Do I think all refs are equal in their interpretation and application of the rules? The answer to these is no. While I support any idea that raises or improves the level of officiating, I think 100% of our energies should be internally focused on the things over which we have control.

I agree about the refs being consistently bad, but things like holding have been particularly egregious.

 

[Scubapro]

I don’t disagree. But define “a pile”. It becomes pretty easy to estimate the probabilities of that happening.

I’m hopeful Geoff, in 2 years, can hire EXCELLENT assistants. Who may very well make up any of his game day shortcomings. He might start by hiring CPJ. He’s unemployed anyway... (joke)

IMO we will need to get between five and seven four-star players per year for Collins to be successful.
Maybe Goose will get tired of coaching Tight Ends at the Dolphins and decide to run our offense...The Fridge could tutor him

 

[Vespidae]

IMO we will need to get between five and seven four-star players per year for Collins to be successful.
Maybe Goose will get tired of coaching Tight Ends at the Dolphins and decide to run our offense...The Fridge could tutor him

Five to seven? Not possible. Three to four. Ok.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Five to seven? Not possible. Three to four. Ok.

Of course it's possible. It may not be probable right now, but that probability may increase as the years roll on.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

IMO we will need to get between five and seven four-star players per year for Collins to have a chance to be successful.
Maybe Goose will get tired of coaching Tight Ends at the Dolphins and decide to run our offense...The Fridge could tutor him

Fixed it for you, or at least what I believe. I believe it is going to be difficult for him even with that level or 4 star players - it will require superb coaching. And, like Vespidae, I think 5-7 is a bit of a stretch. I won't say impossible, but a long stretch.

 

[Vespidae]

Of course it's possible. It may not be probable right now, but that probability may increase as the years roll on.

No. It's not possible. Look at the math. What you 're saying is that you're going to get an increasing number of 4-stars outside of your home zone. That takes money. Big money. Which we don't have.

No, sorry. It's not realistic. And it's another reason TStan said this. Three or four, sure. More ... no way.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Sure there is.

The number of players in the NFL by college are Alabama (56), LSU (41), Florida (39), UGA (32) and Clemson (29). That's in our "neighborhood". So if you're a talent, you're likelihood of making it to the NFL with any of those teams is pretty high. Georgia Tech has 6. Six.

So the theory is ... Collins can change that! So let's see ... there's roughly 300,000 high school seniors playing football. There's roughly 40,000 NCAA football players split among FBS, FCS, DII and DIII. If we assume each FBS team (there are 127) has 85 scholarships and one-fourth of those are freshman, We can break it down as follows, (averages):

No of Five Star Recruits Available: 30
No of Four Star Recruits Available: 380
No of Three Star Recruits Available: 1328
No of Two Star Recruits Available: 1859 (but only 961 will be signed)

Now, Tech's equity "share" of blue chips is (30+380)/127 = 3.2 or 3 (or 4, whatever). If Tech is recruiting in GA, which produced 36 Blue Chips last year, that means Tech will sign 10% of the available talent. Really? How many can even get into Tech? And don't forget ... we're competing against Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, and Clemson for the same talent.

Oh ... and btw ... how many blue chips actually pan out? About 50%.

TStan was right. By sheer numbers, Tech CAN recruit the best 3 stars (the mere fact there are more of them suggests there are also more of them who could enroll and stay enrolled at Tech) ... and use Tech "science" in terms of the best S&C, nutrition, etc ... to develop them into five stars over time. He said that was the strategy, it is our strategy, and it's how he's looking to invest money to support that.

FWIW, I did an analysis of Clemson's team 2 years ago. The top degrees are a) Parks and Recreation, b) Undecided and c) Pre-business (that's a freshman program and I'm shocked at the number of Clemson seniors still in a freshman program. I guess neither Clemson nor the NCAA want to know.)

Long story short ... we may get the occasional 4-star and I'm happy to celebrate that. But to think we are going to dramatically change the percentage we get at the expense of factories is lunacy. Tech has a high bar (SAT scores for one), limited degrees, and a different culture.

If you think Collins is going to land 10 four-stars a year .... good luck with that. You're going to be very unhappy.

Where did I say Collins would get players that the factories wanted? I said we could be an alternative for those high level players who weren’t the first choice for the factories (like Gibbs). Did you not read my post? I agree with what you are saying but my main point is that the minute GT hired Johnson in 2008 we were no longer even an option for many in state studs and our player pool shrank from the Gailey years. Would Calvin, Dwyer, or Gibbs sign with a Johnson Coached GT? The answer is clearly no because he never got that caliber of player to sign.

Every kid in middle and high school knows one thing about GT football - Paul Johnson and the option. I was talking about the season with a friend who is the typical sports fan the other day. Talking about our 1-2 record he said “I guess the option isn’t working too well this year”. When I reminded him we have a different coach in year 2 he said, “ oh yeah, thats right”. Point being - our reputation is still the option because that was the media narrative for over a decade.

As Collins continues to foster the relationships with high school coaches our player pool will continue to increase. How many offensive players have we gotten out of south Georgia lately? Graham, Mills, Zenon, and maybe a few others. It’s because the coaches would steer players away from the option. I talk to these folks and any high ceiling kid would be pushed away from GT due to the system. That has changed now and Collins is a hustler. Give him time and Gibbs and Sims won’t be the last recruiting battles we win. I definitely see Collins getting multiple 4 stars each year. This year sucks because of no in person recruiting, but high school players see what we are running and see what Gibbs and Sims bring to the new GT. And the response has been positive.

 

[Vespidae]

I definitely see Collins getting multiple 4 stars each year.

I'm sorry ... this is a very lame response. What is "multiple"? You have a limited number of blue chips per year on a percentage basis. Are you arguing that we're going to sign 10 blue chips? I would say you're delusional and need to seek immediate medical attention. If you are saying four ... I would say, ok, fine ... I support that.

 

[GT_05]

I'm sorry ... this is a very lame response. What is "multiple"? You have a limited number of blue chips per year on a percentage basis. Are you arguing that we're going to sign 10 blue chips? I would say you're delusional and need to seek immediate medical attention. If you are saying four ... I would say, ok, fine ... I support that.

I haven’t posted in over a year and I’m probably going to regret posting now. During CPJ’s tenure, many on this board believed we couldn’t recruit because of CPJ’s offensive scheme...even on the defense. The scheme is gone so what is our major impediment to recruiting now? Honestly, if we can’t have a goal of a few 4-stars a year, maybe Tech should focus on a sport that doesn’t require as much money. If we can’t get that talent, we might as well get accustomed to watching the same teams play in the CFP every year.