Is Collins nasty enough to be a HC ?

[SOWEGA Jacket]

He’s building towards putting GT in a position to win the Coastal every year. Not that we will but we’ll always be in the discussion. I had the same hope for Johnson until it was apparent he couldn’t recruit legit QB’s into his system or field a defense (he inherited Nesbitt and got us Thomas- that was it for his QB recruiting.) As for recruiting, I expect Collins to get GT into the top 30 every year with some top 20 type classes. If the likes of VT, Arkansas, and South Carolina can do it in the middle of nowhere then Collins with Cobb and Gwinnett in his backyard should be able to do it. I’m not expecting us to be top 10 recruiting because we are a real school. But the fact that we just spent a decade giving away players in our backyard to every other program in the southeast just drives me crazy. Gibbs is the perfect example. He wouldn’t have even considered GT 22 months ago. He would have gone to the SEC and we would have flipped a guy from UAB or somewhere similar. How many Gibbs and Calvins have passed on GT just because of our previous coach?

Collins is working for all of us because he’s a GT fan from berth. Why can’t we give him 3 years of recruiting and coaching until we start bashing him? Look how foolish many Clemson fans look when they were bashing the clown Dabo those first few years. The players in the Atlanta area and rural Georgia have always and will continue to decide the fate of GT football. They love what Collins is selling because it’s the first time someone has sold GT football in their lifetime. I’ve talked to players and coaches in Valdosta, Albany, Moultrie, Lee County, Thomasville, and they all say they’ve seen our current staff way more than in previous years. Getting the high school coaches on our side is huge so Kirby isn’t the only number on speed dial. With FSU being a dumpster fire GT has a shot to get players we wouldn’t have gotten in the past. Why do you think Sandalwood called after the Norvell meeting?

 

[Vespidae]

I believe Butch Jones was a low IQ head coach - I don't know this, but that is the perception I got. I hope, for our sake, CGC is not a low IQ (football strategy) head coach, but I do believe the jury is still out. GT will always need the smartest guy in the room, in my opinion. I believe O'Leary and Ross were very much that way against most of the other head coaches they faced. Of course, CPJ's acumen is proven, although many did not like his brand of football. I am rooting for CGC to do something I believe is impossible at GT - play the big boy game and win the big boy (factory) way.

Butch wasn’t a low IQ coach. He was a no IQ coach. I got the inside scoop from players and letterman and poor Butch was in over his head.

However ... he did stabilize the program. And Pruitt is benefitting from it.

I personally predict Geoff will make the greatest transition in the history of football .. and be followed by another who will win on a major level. Either way, its good for Tech.

 

[Vespidae]

As for recruiting, I expect Collins to get GT into the top 30 every year with some top 20 type classes. If the likes of VT, Arkansas, and South Carolina can do it in the middle of nowhere then Collins with Cobb and Gwinnett in his backyard should be able to do it.

A lovely thought. One that not even TStan agrees with.

Todd has stated our strategy many times. We hope to land a good recruit. But there is NO expectation we are going to outrecruit our neighborhood. Our plan is to develop talent. Yes, a diamond will fall in our lap, but at the end of the day, we’re polishers.

So many on this board refuse to believe our AD.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I believe Butch Jones was a low IQ head coach - I don't know this, but that is the perception I got. I hope, for our sake, CGC is not a low IQ (football strategy) head coach, but I do believe the jury is still out. GT will always need the smartest guy in the room, in my opinion. I believe O'Leary and Ross were very much that way against most of the other head coaches they faced. Of course, CPJ's acumen is proven, although many did not like his brand of football. I am rooting for CGC to do something I believe is impossible at GT - play the big boy game and win the big boy (factory) way.

Butch was a low IQ coach, grocery store manager, garbage man, well, you get the picture. My Florida friends grieved when he left.

 

[4shotB]

I personally predict Geoff will make the greatest transition in the history of football .. and be followed by another who will win on a major level. Either way, its good for Tech.

I agree with you 100%. The unknown factor is if the next guy is 4 years from now or 15.

 

[TooTall]

A lovely thought. One that not even TStan agrees with.

Todd has stated our strategy many times. We hope to land a good recruit. But there is NO expectation we are going to outrecruit our neighborhood. Our plan is to develop talent. Yes, a diamond will fall in our lap, but at the end of the day, we’re polishers.

So many on this board refuse to believe our AD.

An expectation is different than what we are saying. Noone is expecting year in year out top 10 classes, but a top 20 class shouldn't be out of the question once things get rolling.

We don't have the money to fire him, so why don't we give CGC 100% of our support? Is it that hard to do?

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Butch wasn’t a low IQ coach. He was a no IQ coach. I got the inside scoop from players and letterman and poor Butch was in over his head.

However ... he did stabilize the program. And Pruitt is benefitting from it.

I personally predict Geoff will make the greatest transition in the history of football .. and be followed by another who will win on a major level. Either way, its good for Tech.

A good point in spite of Butch being the punch line of so many insider jokes, my Florida friends who keep up with SEC doings a whole lot more than I do, give him credit for at least recruiting well enough to put the program back on track...sort of.

 

[Vespidae]

I might have missed it, but I've never heard our current AD say that.

He has said it multiple times. We will never win the recruiting battle ... we will win the development battle.

 

[TooTall]

I'd say we won the recruiting battle for Gibbs, Simms etc...

 

[Vespidae]

I'd say we won the recruiting battle for Gibbs, Simms etc...

One bird does not make the spring.

 

[ncjacket79]

He has said it multiple times. We will never win the recruiting battle ... we will win the development battle.

But we can consistently recruit at a much higher level that we have been in the last 10 years. And TStan does believe that.

 

[Vespidae]

But we can consistently recruit at a much higher level that we have been in the last 10 years. And TStan does believe that.

I think we will recruit differently, yes. But TStan has routinely said our strategy is to recruit 3 stars and develop them into 5 stars. He backed that up by saying we will NOT out Clemson Clemson.

 

[Deleted member 4873]

This thread is in contention for stupidest thread of the year.

Couldn’t agree more. Fans have NO idea what goes on during practices.

 

[CuseJacket]

I believe Butch Jones was a low IQ head coach - I don't know this, but that is the perception I got. I hope, for our sake, CGC is not a low IQ (football strategy) head coach, but I do believe the jury is still out. GT will always need the smartest guy in the room, in my opinion. I believe O'Leary and Ross were very much that way against most of the other head coaches they faced. Of course, CPJ's acumen is proven, although many did not like his brand of football. I am rooting for CGC to do something I believe is impossible at GT - play the big boy game and win the big boy (factory) way.

I think the acumen thing is right with Johnson. However, ultimately it didn't differentiate Johnson's results from Gailey's. Both had the same record vs. FBS over their tenures. Both generally fielded really good teams in one phase of the game and were anemic on the other side of the ball. Hit or miss on ST. Different ways to skin the cat.

I was and still am a big CPJ supporter, and I will only say this here because we're family on this board. Outside I will remain an unapologetic supporter. Overall I think CPJ's accomplishments were overall ok. Some have conflated his offensive advantages and clock management into something indicative of the team as a whole. The eyeball test and data says we were really bad on D. That was huge and kept us back, and I'm not sure whether that is taken as a foregone conclusion or fans just like to discuss offense.

Qualifying for the ACCCG one year at 5-6 vs. FBS was unremarkable and basically the performance achieved every year during the prior two regimes. We did nothing performance-wise that year out of the ordinary. The extenuating circumstance was that the rest of the division was also unremarkable and 2 teams were DQ'd from the ACCCG. Accounting for that, Johnson's 2 differentiated ACCCG appearances over 11 years is about the same as Gailey's 1 over 6 years.

The reason I mention the prior paragraphs is not to add to the coaching debate, but instead to level set on our prospects going forward. I don't think it's a stretch for Collins or some equivalent to achieve the same W/L results by simply making our D competent. And finding a place kicker, which all 3 of the most recent regimes have demonstrated is unreliable and requires a degree of luck.

Is that really too difficult to accomplish at GT? I'd say based on prior results and recruiting under Collins thus far, it's not. To be good on D, you need good players. We failed in that regard under the prior regime for a variety of reasons, and I think we're better set up for success going forward (HC experience on that side, funding, more attractive recruiting pitch, etc.). The 2020 recruiting class was a great start, but they won't be traditional upperclassmen until 2022.

Long story short, I think GT's floor is higher than what some believe it to be. Whether Collins can get back to and maintain the status quo, let alone be the answer we've been waiting for, is TBD. Contrary to what some have suggested, I think this season matters and I believe the coaches are playing to win. But realistically, as George O'Leary shared before the UCF game, our roster still has holes to fill. That is not a product of Collins, nor is it solely the fault of the prior HC. Our talented 2020 recruiting class are true frosh. I think next year is the year to gauge our overall direction (are we back to historical norms). 2022 is the year where any youth/depth/fit/etc. caveats are out the window.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

I think we will recruit differently, yes. But TStan has routinely said our strategy is to recruit 3 stars and develop them into 5 stars. He backed that up by saying we will NOT out Clemson Clemson.

When did TStan say that we will recruit 3 stars and develop them into 5 stars?

 

[Pointer]

A lovely thought. One that not even TStan agrees with.

Todd has stated our strategy many times. We hope to land a good recruit. But there is NO expectation we are going to outrecruit our neighborhood. Our plan is to develop talent. Yes, a diamond will fall in our lap, but at the end of the day, we’re polishers.

So many on this board refuse to believe our AD.

Which requires getting old and staying old, something that is contradicted by the practice of processing.

 

[Pointer]

I think the acumen thing is right with Johnson. However, ultimately it didn't differentiate Johnson's results from Gailey's. Both had the same record vs. FBS over their tenures. Both generally fielded really good teams in one phase of the game and were anemic on the other side of the ball. Hit or miss on ST. Different ways to skin the cat.

I was and still am a big CPJ supporter, and I will only say this here because we're family on this board. Outside I will remain an unapologetic supporter. Overall I think CPJ's accomplishments were overall ok. Some have conflated his offensive advantages and clock management into something indicative of the team as a whole. The eyeball test and data says we were really bad on D. That was huge and kept us back, and I'm not sure whether that is taken as a foregone conclusion or fans just like to discuss offense.

Qualifying for the ACCCG one year at 5-6 vs. FBS was unremarkable and basically the performance achieved every year during the prior two regimes. We did nothing performance-wise that year out of the ordinary. The extenuating circumstance was that the rest of the division was also unremarkable and 2 teams were DQ'd from the ACCCG. Accounting for that, Johnson's 2 differentiated ACCCG appearances over 11 years is about the same as Gailey's 1 over 6 years.

The reason I mention the prior paragraphs is not to add to the coaching debate, but instead to level set on our prospects going forward. I don't think it's a stretch for Collins or some equivalent to achieve the same W/L results by simply making our D competent. And finding a place kicker, which all 3 of the most recent regimes have demonstrated is unreliable and requires a degree of luck.

Is that really too difficult to accomplish at GT? I'd say based on prior results and recruiting under Collins thus far, it's not. To be good on D, you need good players. We failed in that regard under the prior regime for a variety of reasons, and I think we're better set up for success going forward (HC experience on that side, funding, more attractive recruiting pitch, etc.). The 2020 recruiting class was a great start, but they won't be traditional upperclassmen until 2022.

Long story short, I think GT's floor is higher than what some believe it to be. Whether Collins can get back to and maintain the status quo, let alone be the answer we've been waiting for, is TBD. Contrary to what some have suggested, I think this season matters and I believe the coaches are playing to win. But realistically, as George O'Leary shared before the UCF game, our roster still has holes to fill. That is not a product of Collins, nor is it solely the fault of the prior HC. Our talented 2020 recruiting class are true frosh. I think next year is the year to gauge our overall direction (are we back to historical norms). 2022 is the year where any youth/depth/fit/etc. caveats are out the window.

How can you think that Gailey's results are the same as CPJ. I think you said some truths for sure about defensive side (which I blame more on lack of funding), but come on, there's no comparing CCG to CPJ results wise. Galley accomplished nothing with the best wide receiver to play the game.

 

[Pointer]

But we can consistently recruit at a much higher level that we have been in the last 10 years. And TStan does believe that.

The problem is will that be enough to bring success when we are trying to run the same systems as everyone else? I only really know of one power 5 team who has done this consistently and that is Wisconsin. We can do that, but it won't be easy. It's like a poster stated above, CGC will be here for a while either way so may as well give the team your support (directed more at myself, not so much at you).

 

[CuseJacket]

How can you think that Gailey's results are the same as CPJ. I think you said some truths for sure about defensive side (which I blame more on lack of funding), but come on, there's no comparing CCG to CPJ results wise. Galley accomplished nothing with the best wide receiver to play the game.

I shared the data on W and L, and ACCCG appearances, which says their performance was the same. Is there a different view on that data?

I agree emotionally that I like good offense relative to good defense, and I think that's true of most fans including today. And the wins over Georgia were some of the greatest games in my memory. That is a tiebreaker emotionally for me too between the two coaches, despite the overall performance of the teams being the same. I disagree on defense being solely due to funding, but I'm not going down that path.

The point of my post was not to stoke the prior regimes debates. Rather it was to normalize what I think are repeatable, achievable expectations at GT regardless of coach, scheme, etc. And with that, why it's not going to be a remarkable feat for Collins or his successor to recreate those results.

There are also different headwinds facing Collins that the prior two regimes did not face. The Georgia and Clemson teams of 2017 forward are in a different stratosphere. Johnson said as much prior to the 2017 game stte of that was the most talented Georgia team he had faced, and unfortunately I have to agree. So it's going to be tougher sledding 2 of 12 games every year under Collins unless that dynamic changes.

But I really don't care if we have more talent but perform worse on offense relative to CPJ's squads, as long as the W's comes. And our history suggests we can do that a number of ways.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I think the acumen thing is right with Johnson. However, ultimately it didn't differentiate Johnson's results from Gailey's. Both had the same record vs. FBS over their tenures. Both generally fielded really good teams in one phase of the game and were anemic on the other side of the ball. Hit or miss on ST. Different ways to skin the cat.

I was and still am a big CPJ supporter, and I will only say this here because we're family on this board. Outside I will remain an unapologetic supporter. Overall I think CPJ's accomplishments were overall ok. Some have conflated his offensive advantages and clock management into something indicative of the team as a whole. The eyeball test and data says we were really bad on D. That was huge and kept us back, and I'm not sure whether that is taken as a foregone conclusion or fans just like to discuss offense.

Qualifying for the ACCCG one year at 5-6 vs. FBS was unremarkable and basically the performance achieved every year during the prior two regimes. We did nothing performance-wise that year out of the ordinary. The extenuating circumstance was that the rest of the division was also unremarkable and 2 teams were DQ'd from the ACCCG. Accounting for that, Johnson's 2 differentiated ACCCG appearances over 11 years is about the same as Gailey's 1 over 6 years.

The reason I mention the prior paragraphs is not to add to the coaching debate, but instead to level set on our prospects going forward. I don't think it's a stretch for Collins or some equivalent to achieve the same W/L results by simply making our D competent. And finding a place kicker, which all 3 of the most recent regimes have demonstrated is unreliable and requires a degree of luck.

Is that really too difficult to accomplish at GT? I'd say based on prior results and recruiting under Collins thus far, it's not. To be good on D, you need good players. We failed in that regard under the prior regime for a variety of reasons, and I think we're better set up for success going forward (HC experience on that side, funding, more attractive recruiting pitch, etc.). The 2020 recruiting class was a great start, but they won't be traditional upperclassmen until 2022.

Long story short, I think GT's floor is higher than what some believe it to be. Whether Collins can get back to and maintain the status quo, let alone be the answer we've been waiting for, is TBD. Contrary to what some have suggested, I think this season matters and I believe the coaches are playing to win. But realistically, as George O'Leary shared before the UCF game, our roster still has holes to fill. That is not a product of Collins, nor is it solely the fault of the prior HC. Our talented 2020 recruiting class are true frosh. I think next year is the year to gauge our overall direction (are we back to historical norms). 2022 is the year where any youth/depth/fit/etc. caveats are out the window.

Well thought out post, Cuse. I like to "simplify" things. Gailey recruited better, but I believe CPJ, with his system, was still a better game day head coach.

At GT, I do NOT believe our recruiting potential is top 10 - if I did, I would not be very concerned (or not extremely concerned) with CGC learning on the job. I believe it is top 25, maybe top 20 occasionally. For that reason, CGC will have to be able to "coach up" the players and out coach the opposing coaches ultimate, or GT fans/alums will never be satisfied. (historically speaking, this is the way it goes) I hope he can do it. (and recruit like we have never seen consistently - when I start seeing highly touted DT's and LB's, I will know we have turned a corner possibly)