Hypothetical QB question

[year_of_the_swarm]

If you had to predict.... assuming all the other variables were the same.

What would total offense look like entering the season as you would expect, with Marshall being the #1 QB and a supporting cast of Benson, Searcy, Cottrell, Howard, Lynch, etc.

And then....

What would total offense look like moving Marshall to AB and bringing Lucas Johnson in at QB. This gives Lucas Johnson the supporting cast of Benson, Marshall, Searcy, Cottrell, Howard, Lynch, etc.

On paper doesn't this put more weapons on the field? You put your best athlete and most explosive runner at AB, you put your best passer on the field at QB, and you still have a pair of outstanding BB's in Benson and Howard.

What happens in that situation in your opinion? Would you predict a change in points per game? Change in win/loss totals? Change in important stats like passing efficiency, big plays, etc.

I would think it would lead to more big plays in the passing game, and probably in the running game as well because Marshall is going to bust big runs on the edge.

I am pretty new to the forum and I am sure this has been debated at length, so if it is repetitive I apologize.

 

[Skeptic]

If you had to predict.... assuming all the other variables were the same.

What would total offense look like entering the season as you would expect, with Marshall being the #1 QB and a supporting cast of Benson, Searcy, Cottrell, Howard, Lynch, etc.

And then....

What would total offense look like moving Marshall to AB and bringing Lucas Johnson in at QB. This gives Lucas Johnson the supporting cast of Benson, Marshall, Searcy, Cottrell, Howard, Lynch, etc.

On paper doesn't this put more weapons on the field? You put your best athlete and most explosive runner at AB, you put your best passer on the field at QB, and you still have a pair of outstanding BB's in Benson and Howard.

What happens in that situation in your opinion? Would you predict a change in points per game? Change in win/loss totals? Change in important stats like passing efficiency, big plays, etc.

I would think it would lead to more big plays in the passing game, and probably in the running game as well because Marshall is going to bust big runs on the edge.

I am pretty new to the forum and I am sure this has been debated at length, so if it is repetitive I apologize.

Well, one caution about this offense, and what Navy did to counter its effects: your A backs may be your best athletes, but in a true option and with the position used to run in plays, your best athlete may get five touches a game. Navy decided that was dumb, and they moved their best A back to QB and their offense took off ... much the same as GT's with lots and lots of QB keepers and kind of boring, but effective. A hard fact, but there it is. Outside of a couple of called plays for the A backs -- Orwin Smith's unchallenged rocket toss for instance, a play we have not been able to duplicate since, and I don't know why because for the life of me, Orwin Smith did not look that fast. He just was on that play. In other words, putting all the weapons on the field means leaving most of them shooting blanks.

 

[1BearJACKET]

It will never happen...much to our detriment. Marshall apparently is the "anointed one" who will magically improve his completion % to >50%, make all the correct reads, and learn to share the ball because he has had a full season of experience. But it is fun to imagine.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Your scenario makes sense if and only if LJ and TM are equal at qb. The QB is the most critical ingredient in the offense. So much of the job of qb lies outside the realm of athleticism that just making decisions based on pure athleticism is not a good idea.

 

[1BearJACKET]

Your scenario makes sense if and only if LJ and TM are equal at qb. The QB is the most critical ingredient in the offense. So much of the job of qb lies outside the realm of athleticism that just making decisions based on pure athleticism is not a good idea.

But isn't that why Marshall was named the starter last season?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

But isn't that why Marshall was named the starter last season?

No. He was named the starter after Jordan's failed come back from injury because he gave us the best chance to win games in CPJ's opinion. Jay Jones was probably more athletic.

 

[1BearJACKET]

CPJ said in public that the job was Jordan's to lose. He admitted in an interview to the contrary, that he was leaning towards Marshall after the conclusion of Spring 2017 all along. The injury to Jordan in pre-season camp just saved him from an embarrassing predicament of starting an untested QB over one that had played and played well. Not to mention that Jordan gave up playing time at AB to return to QB when Byerly was lost to injury in 2015.

 

[Lavoisier]

Marshall probably wouldn't see the field a ton at A-Back. I think at best he'd be the #4 guy behind Searcy, Lynch, and Cottrell. He'd realistically be lower as he hasn't played that position in years and I have no idea how good his blocking and route running are now.

 

[slugboy]

I thought it was because he was making the right reads at the right speed, compared to everyone else. (which basically === "best chance to win")

 

[dressedcheeseside]

CPJ said in public that the job was Jordan's to lose. He admitted in an interview to the contrary, that he was leaning towards Marshall after the conclusion of Spring 2017 all along. The injury to Jordan in pre-season camp just saved him from an embarrassing predicament of starting an untested QB over one that had played and played well. Not to mention that Jordan gave up playing time at AB to return to QB when Byerly was lost to injury in 2015.

Not sure what you’re arguing about here.

 

[1BearJACKET]

Not sure what you’re arguing about here.

Don't be obtuse. Of course the injury to Jordan made the point moot. But what I am saying is that PJ likely would have given the nod to Marshall anyway even if Jordan had been 100%. And it would have been because of "athleticism" only. Whereas you have said, and I agree, that the QB position should be more than just about "athleticism".

 

[Josh H]

In an older version of Paul Johnson's playbook, the advice on the Triple Option was to "Pitch, Pitch, Pitch, until the defense takes that way from you".

I think the offense works best when the QB is a distributor and not keeping the ball. JT rarely had more than 15 rushing attempts per game, Taquon regularly exceeds 20 (with 44! against Tennessee). And you can mostly see that in the game stats, after the Tennessee, Pitt, and North Carolina games the QB keeper was held in check. 18 yards vs. Miami. 23 yards vs Clemson. 64 yards vs VT.

Then again, Taquon was effectively a 25% passer the last 5 games of the season, so maybe distribution isn't the best strategy.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Don't be obtuse. Of course the injury to Jordan made the point moot. But what I am saying is that PJ likely would have given the nod to Marshall anyway even if Jordan had been 100%. And it would have been because of "athleticism" only. Whereas you have said, and I agree, that the QB position should be more than just about "athleticism".

Why do you believe that? Is it Johnson's long history of saying one thing and then doing another?

 

[ilovetheoption]

In an older version of Paul Johnson's playbook, the advice on the Triple Option was to "Pitch, Pitch, Pitch, until the defense takes that way from you".

I think the offense works best when the QB is a distributor and not keeping the ball. JT rarely had more than 15 rushing attempts per game, Taquon regularly exceeds 20 (with 44! against Tennessee). And you can mostly see that in the game stats, after the Tennessee, Pitt, and North Carolina games the QB keeper was held in check. 18 yards vs. Miami. 23 yards vs Clemson. 64 yards vs VT.

Then again, Taquon was effectively a 25% passer the last 5 games of the season, so maybe distribution isn't the best strategy.

Yep, the old "one way decision making". The read is give, unless they make you keep, then the read is pitch, until they make you keep.

 

[1BearJACKET]

I thought it was because he was making the right reads at the right speed, compared to everyone else. (which basically === "best chance to win")

Right speed? Maybe so. Right reads.....that's debatable.

 

[bobongo]

If you had to predict.... assuming all the other variables were the same.

What would total offense look like entering the season as you would expect, with Marshall being the #1 QB and a supporting cast of Benson, Searcy, Cottrell, Howard, Lynch, etc.

And then....

What would total offense look like moving Marshall to AB and bringing Lucas Johnson in at QB. This gives Lucas Johnson the supporting cast of Benson, Marshall, Searcy, Cottrell, Howard, Lynch, etc.

On paper doesn't this put more weapons on the field? You put your best athlete and most explosive runner at AB, you put your best passer on the field at QB, and you still have a pair of outstanding BB's in Benson and Howard.

What happens in that situation in your opinion? Would you predict a change in points per game? Change in win/loss totals? Change in important stats like passing efficiency, big plays, etc.

I would think it would lead to more big plays in the passing game, and probably in the running game as well because Marshall is going to bust big runs on the edge.

I am pretty new to the forum and I am sure this has been debated at length, so if it is repetitive I apologize.

One quibble - our most explosive runner is Clinton Lynch.

I'm guessing that TQM is at QB because he's better than Lucas Johnson at this stage. I'm curious how he performs with a year of experience under his belt. However, if the tackles gets banged up or for whatever reason play as poorly they did last season, it may become a reasonable alternative to put LJ in at QB just because he's bigger and stronger and maybe can break some tackles and run over some people. And I do see how TQM would augment our A backs. In any case, everything depends on the OL. And I'm not sold on the idea that TQM is an inferior passer to LJ. We don't know because we haven't seen TQM get anywhere near sufficient pass blocking to find out.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Don't be obtuse. Of course the injury to Jordan made the point moot. But what I am saying is that PJ likely would have given the nod to Marshall anyway even if Jordan had been 100%. And it would have been because of "athleticism" only. Whereas you have said, and I agree, that the QB position should be more than just about "athleticism".

Even if TM had beaten MJ for starter if MJ was 100% (a whole lot of assumptions here) it doesn't mean "it would have been because of "athleticism" only." Not sure how you draw that conclusion from one off the cuff comment that you say coach made. I bet I'm not alone on this board in thinking coach values and weighs the whole gamut of skills involved in playing qb and outside of ball security, which is paramount, likely values the cerebral ones more.

 

[MidtownJacket]

This whole back and forth seems to be built on a couple assumptions which I have trouble with:

1) CPJ plays players for any reason other than he believes them to be the best option for the team

He literally gets PAID to win and MEASURED on W/L record, not to mention is - by all accounts - exceptionally competitive. I get that some people on this board don't like coach or his offense. Fine, I don't follow your desire to publicly decry our coach, but fine I can accept it. That said, anyone who continues to argue that he, or the administration, would allow players to be "anointed" for any reason other than performance is ridiculous. ​

2) We as fans, and even some of you sneaky insiders with "connections" know better than the coaching staff who gives us the best chance to win

Practices are closed, so everything you know is at best filtered through someone else. OTHER THAN THE COACHING STAFF WHO IS PAID TO EVALUATE AND DEVELOP THE PLAYERS​

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Yep, the old "one way decision making". The read is give, unless they make you keep, then the read is pitch, until they make you keep.

I think the "whatever you don't don't turn it over" command overrides everything else. As much as TM loved to keep the ball, my guess is his fear of turning it over influenced his decision making more.

 

[UgaBlows]

Pointless argument, TQ will be our QB. If not he would be our backup QB, or split series with the starters. It just seems way too late to swap him back to A-back at this point in his career.