How Important is Recruiting?

[bobongo]

I want a coach, first and foremost, who builds something real. Recruiting will improve if there is something to believe in and build on.

Just seems to me that to an extent, good coaching would recruit itself. Don't players want to play for someone who will coach them up and put them in positions and situations where they'll succeed?

Besides, even if the HC isn't that much of a recruiter, he can hire some coaches who are.

 

[stigs02jrt]

I believe Scout actually changed his rating retroactively. It was a big deal when that happened.

I understand your point that Sanders signed a 5 star at an HBCU. I don't attach as much significance to that as you do. I do not want Sanders as the coach for GT for several reasons.

A VERY large point about recruiting rankings seems to be flying over your head. You can't even realize that a website that releases rankings AFTER the players have already failed or made their way into the NFL isn't extremely trustworthy. When their "corrections" are claimed to be legitimate because they average across other rankings, it falls apart when they purchased one of the rankings that they "average", and that happens to be the one that retroactively changed the rating of a player who far exceeded his original ratings.

Recruiting athletes matters. What some third party says on a website that is put together with the intent of drawing traffic to sell adds and memberships does not matter.

You "believe" Scout changed Calvin's rating? Are you saying that 247 is also retroactively changing its ratings when a guy kills or fails in the NFL? Are you saying that they DIDN'T look at multiple sources from 2004 to get Calvin's rating? Any other conspiracy theories I should know of?

But you believe Rivals, which ALSO has the intent of selling ads and memberships? Got it.

 

[RonJohn]

You "believe" Scout changed Calvin's rating? Are you saying that 247 is also retroactively changing its ratings when a guy kills or fails in the NFL? Are you saying that they DIDN'T look at multiple sources from 2004 to get Calvin's rating? Any other conspiracy theories I should know of?

But you believe Rivals, which ALSO has the intent of selling ads and memberships? Got it.

I don't put much stock into any of the sites that "gamify" recruiting. I do believe that Scout retroactively changed Calvin's rating. I don't know if they changed any other players or not, I just happen to know about that one. 247 purchased Scout in 2017, so they own it. There are no "conspiracy theories". It isn't like what 247 or Rivals does has any real effect on the world.

 

[stigs02jrt]

"Literally" not true. Its an easy, lazy metric fans point to. Good programs do recruit well - that sample set proves little to nothing. Some bad programs recruit well. Some good programs recruit poorly.

I don't give a **** about an offensive guru and there are no unicorns. The ONLY thing I am saying is that we won't recruit ourselves into success at GT.

I want a coach, first and foremost, who builds something real. Recruiting will improve if there is something to believe in and build on. It's funny that some won't even consider what a coach has done at G5 level as evidence of anything, but what an 18 year old did in high school will determine the direction of our program? Not buying.

"Since we won't recruit ourselves into success", let's take a few years and COACH ourselves into success, with someone who builds something "real" that players can "believe in". Forget the metrics, the data, let's go on a feeling and a hunch... just like us engineers were taught

So, please, just give us some recent examples of new hires that have taken, say, #40-50 ranked recruiting classes (like us) to consistent top 25 finishes. Perhaps we can catch lightning in a bottle and find us one of those.

 

[RonJohn]

Ironically CPJs best 2 year stretch was with Gailey's best recruiting year, not CPJs. See how that works?

And his best year was without Gailey's best recruiting class. How does that work?

 

[cpf2001]

Calvin not being a 5 star was a big source of discussion in 2004-2006 on GT boards. Best I can remember by 2005 or so Scout definitely had him showing as a 5-star, but folks did get re-evaluated sometimes (less so after the start of their freshman year) and I can't say for sure what he was rated when he signed, my memory isn't that good!

 

[yeti92]

Wiki says calvin was 5 star on Scout. But if Rivals is your favorite service, or you just don't like a composite like 247 which looked at a bunch of rating services from 2004, go with it.

The actual point was apparently way over your head anyway.

Ahh wikipedia, well known for being a reliable source. He was not a 5 star on scout - I was very into recruiting at the time, I know this for a fact. Multiple people are telling you are wrong, but keep trying to google yourself out of it.

Your point was not over anyone's head, you are just presenting incorrect information which takes away from your point. Keep believing you are the smartest person in the room though, we'll keep laughing.

 

[stigs02jrt]

I don't put much stock into any of the sites that "gamify" recruiting. I do believe that Scout retroactively changed Calvin's rating. I don't know if they changed any other players or not, I just happen to know about that one. 247 purchased Scout in 2017, so they own it. There are no "conspiracy theories". It isn't like what 247 or Rivals does has any real effect on the world.

Since you trust Rivals, do they "gamify" rankings? Whatever that means.

And his best year was without Gailey's best recruiting class. How does that work?

53.8% wins with his own guys, 73.1% with Gailey's. See how that works?

 

[RonJohn]

So, please, just give us some recent examples of new hires that have taken, say, #40-50 ranked recruiting classes (like us) to consistent top 25 finishes. Perhaps we can catch lightning in a bottle and find us one of those.

Cincinatti made the CFP last year. They averaged about #50 between 2018 and 2021.

GT was VERY close to making the CFP in 2014.

Once again, nobody is saying that getting very good athletes doesn't matter. If you want to be like Alabama, you need top recruiting, top coaching, top discipline, and more than double the money that we currently have. If that is the level you want to be at, then we need to double our revenue before we can do the rest.

 

[RonJohn]

Since you trust Rivals, do they "gamify" rankings? Whatever that means.

I don't trust Rivals rankings. I never said that I do. Who are you arguing with? You seem to be getting into troll territory and just trying to argue against something, even if there isn't anything to argue about.

 

[stigs02jrt]

Ahh wikipedia, well known for being a reliable source. He was not a 5 star on scout - I was very into recruiting at the time, I know this for a fact. Multiple people are telling you are wrong, but keep trying to google yourself out of it.

Your point was not over anyone's head, you are just presenting incorrect information which takes away from your point. Keep believing you are the smartest person in the room though, we'll keep laughing.

Hmmm wikipedia or some random on GTSwarm "who knows for a fact"... who to believe.

Much to your chagrin, you are actually helping me make my original point: Deion actually signed MORE 5 stars than Tech EVER has.

 

[yeti92]

Hmmm wikipedia or some random on GTSwarm "who knows for a fact"... who to believe.

Much to your chagrin, you are actually helping me make my original point: Deion actually signed MORE 5 stars than Tech EVER has.

I'm not arguing your point, I'm telling you the data you presented is wrong. It's remarkable how hard this is for you to understand.

 

[stigs02jrt]

I'm not arguing your point, I'm telling you the data you presented is wrong. It's remarkable how hard this is for you to understand.

Yes, thank you for correcting my data. 247 composite and Scout has him as a 5 star, but Rivals doesn't. So that makes him a 4 star.

 

[CEB]

"Since we won't recruit ourselves into success", let's take a few years and COACH ourselves into success, with someone who builds something "real" that players can "believe in". Forget the metrics, the data, let's go on a feeling and a hunch... just like us engineers were taught

So, please, just give us some recent examples of new hires that have taken, say, #40-50 ranked recruiting classes (like us) to consistent top 25 finishes. Perhaps we can catch lightning in a bottle and find us one of those.

Pretty good strawmen set up there, but I'll play. Consistent top 25 is the domain of P5 programs, so your question is somewhat contradictory if I read it right, but I'll answer regardless.... Clawson comes to mind, as does Sonny Dykes, who did pretty well at SMU and seems to be translating OK to Power 5 level. Liepold also comes to mind. Luke Fickell as well. Yes, for every one of them, there are 5, 10, or even 20 who flame out. Who is the next? no idea. I think a Chadwell could be. Heck, lots of folks talk about Malzahn, but why not look at Rhett Lashlee? Lashlee is basically Malzahn circa15 years ago. Don't know if he pans out or not... and he's probably already making more at SMU than we want to pay, but there's a name.

We don't need to stay in the 40-50 recruiting range (YOU SAID THAT, NOT ME), but history is kind of hard to ignore, ain't it? I think we can improve (and we should try) but I don't believe we are going to be recruiting in the top 20, either. So now its your turn.... How high do we have to jump in recruiting to see sustained top 25 results? What's our target? Has any Tech coach achieved said target? What coach out there today can achieve said target AT TECH today?

I'll end with this, even though I know you were being snarky - we will indeed catch lightning in a bottle if we find sustained success with anyone in the next 3-4 years. Whether we are chasing top ten recruiting classes or the schematic white knight riding the shiniest unicorn of a system... We're entering into a 4+ year plan, and we can't afford for it to fail at the end. With that as my mindset, I feel like an unproven coach selling me high school commitments is a house of cards. I'll get on board with whoever we bring in, but please give me a real coach, with real credentials, who is ready to overcome our recruiting challenges.

 

[stigs02jrt]

Cincinatti made the CFP last year. They averaged about #50 between 2018 and 2021.

GT was VERY close to making the CFP in 2014.

Once again, nobody is saying that getting very good athletes doesn't matter. If you want to be like Alabama, you need top recruiting, top coaching, top discipline, and more than double the money that we currently have. If that is the level you want to be at, then we need to double our revenue before we can do the rest.

Cincinnati. Good example, but looks like they are 6-4 vs P5 teams since 2018. An AAC team is just not a good apples to apples comparison, from a schedule and a recruiting perspective. A P5 example (not a one year wonder) would be great, consistently overperforming their recruiting ranking for say 4-5 years.

I don't aim for Bama levels. I just want top 25 recruiting and finishes.

 

[Techster]

Calvin Johnson was 5 star recruit...he was NOT a consensus 5 star recruit. This has been pointed out and proven MANY times over the years but every once in a while someone pops up and tries to say CJ wasn't a 5 star. That is just false.

 

[stigs02jrt]

Pretty good strawmen set up there, but I'll play. Consistent top 25 is the domain of P5 programs, so your question is somewhat contradictory if I read it right, but I'll answer regardless.... Clawson comes to mind, as does Sonny Dykes, who did pretty well at SMU and seems to be translating OK to Power 5 level. Liepold also comes to mind. Luke Fickell as well. Yes, for every one of them, there are 5, 10, or even 20 who flame out. Who is the next? no idea. I think a Chadwell could be. Heck, lots of folks talk about Malzahn, but why not look at Rhett Lashlee? Lashlee is basically Malzahn circa15 years ago. Don't know if he pans out or not... and he's probably already making more at SMU than we want to pay, but there's a name.

We don't need to stay in the 40-50 recruiting range (YOU SAID THAT, NOT ME), but history is kind of hard to ignore, ain't it? I think we can improve (and we should try) but I don't believe we are going to be recruiting in the top 20, either. So now its your turn.... How high do we have to jump in recruiting to see sustained top 25 results? What's our target? Has any Tech coach achieved said target? What coach out there today can achieve said target AT TECH today?

I'll end with this, even though I know you were being snarky - we will indeed catch lightning in a bottle if we find sustained success with anyone in the next 3-4 years. Whether we are chasing top ten recruiting classes or the schematic white knight riding the shiniest unicorn of a system... We're entering into a 4+ year plan, and we can't afford for it to fail at the end. With that as my mindset, I feel like an unproven coach selling me high school commitments is a house of cards. I'll get on board with whoever we bring in, but please give me a real coach, with real credentials, who is ready to overcome our recruiting challenges.

How high do we have to jump in recruiting to get top 25 results? We gotta get top 25 recruiting classes, that's my whole point. Has any tech coach gotten that? Nope, which is why we've been mediocre for 20+ years. What coach can get us there? Just one guy, Deion. Dude is basically a black superhero to these recruits. And he's actually a legit, old school coach.

Is there anyone else that can get players to tech immediately? probably not. So to me, it's Deion, or we go on another 4 year slog like we just did with CGC and hope for the best.

 

[CEB]

How high do we have to jump in recruiting to get top 25 results? We gotta get top 25 recruiting classes, that's my whole point. Has any tech coach gotten that? Nope, which is why we've been mediocre for 20+ years. What coach can get us there? Just one guy, Deion. Dude is basically a black superhero to these recruits. And he's actually a legit, old school coach.

Is there anyone else that can get players to tech immediately? probably not. So to me, it's Deion, or we go on another 4 year slog like we just did with CGC and hope for the best.

Got it. Clarity over agreement.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Calvin Johnson is a 5 star on 247. But you get the point.

247 was started in 2010. Calvin was in the NFL by then. When Megatron signed with us, all available recruiting rankings at the time had him as a 4*

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You "believe" Scout changed Calvin's rating? Are you saying that 247 is also retroactively changing its ratings when a guy kills or fails in the NFL? Are you saying that they DIDN'T look at multiple sources from 2004 to get Calvin's rating? Any other conspiracy theories I should know of?

But you believe Rivals, which ALSO has the intent of selling ads and memberships? Got it.

They did change his rating. I used to joke that Tevin Washington was the first 5* that GT signed because Scout had him listed as one. Later on they changed it to be appropriate. CJ was mentioned in several articles back in the day for being one of the head scratchers for why he wasn't a 5* recruit.