How does Army do this?

[charles]

This time next year we will be discussing why Wissinut or Collins was such a bad hire and why we are sitting home with no bowl invitiation for such a terrible year

 

[chewybaka]

Defensive FEI ranking
Bama - 1
Clemson - 4
OU - 94

It's a joke they beat out Georgia and OSU...

 

[Animal02]

Army’s victories this year are over Fordham, Liberty, Hawaii, San Jose State, Miami of Ohio, Eastern Michigan, Air Force, Lafayette and Colgate. That is how they do it. Some people on here act like they have beaten Alabama, Clemson, Notre Dame and Georgia.

Point is that Army used to get soundly beaten by most of those teams and Navy as well. Monken turned things around.

 

[jojatk]

We could do so much worse than hiring Jeff Monken. The man is an amazing coach. To be honest, PJs best years at Tech were when Jeff was coaching QBs and bbacks.

I do not understand why some are so adamantly opposes to the option. It’s beautiful when executed well. It includes passing. The national football folks I respect the most love the option. The most exciting offenses in college football involve some form of option. For real, what gives?

“We could do much worse” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement... hah. But in all seriousness I do agree that there are many, many coaches out there that I would not want at GT and above whom I would want Jeff Monken or Brian Bohannon. I enjoy watching our offense when it is firing on all (or even most) cylinders. I think describing it as beautiful when executed well is totally appropriate.

What gives, at least for me and my preference (though not a SUPER STRONG preference) to move away from the offense, is that there’s a perception that it hampers our recruiting over and above the difficulty we have recruiting already. I say “perception” because I can’t prove it does or doesn’t and there’s the possibility it’s an inaccurate statement. I do believe we can recruit better than we have been if we have a brand of football that appeals to more kids. That doesn’t mean lots of 4* and 5* kids. I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation no matter who the coach is. But maybe a few more 4* kids here and there. My concern with Jeff and Brian is all about whether I think they can recruit any better than CPJ and I haven’t heard any reason to expect they would. But I’m open to hearing why people think they would recruit better.

 

[elwoodgt]

“We could do much worse” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement... hah. But in all seriousness I do agree that there are many, many coaches out there that I would not want at GT and above whom I would want Jeff Monken or Brian Bohannon. I enjoy watching our offense when it is firing on all (or even most) cylinders. I think describing it as beautiful when executed well is totally appropriate.

What gives, at least for me and my preference (though not a SUPER STRONG preference) to move away from the offense, is that there’s a perception that it hampers our recruiting over and above the difficulty we have recruiting already. I say “perception” because I can’t prove it does or doesn’t and there’s the possibility it’s an inaccurate statement. I do believe we can recruit better than we have been if we have a brand of football that appeals to more kids. That doesn’t mean lots of 4* and 5* kids. I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation no matter who the coach is. But maybe a few more 4* kids here and there. My concern with Jeff and Brian is all about whether I think they can recruit any better than CPJ and I haven’t heard any reason to expect they would. But I’m open to hearing why people think they would recruit better.

That’s a great question! To answer I want to first talk about why the option is different from what most big schools run.

Winning football games is about dictating the terms of the contest to be about whatever aspect of your team is better than the other team. If you have a great run defense, you make em try to run against you, so the game hinges on the question, Is your running game better than our great run defense? If you have a great passing quarterback, you run a lot of passing plays, to make the game hinge on the question, is your secondary better than our great passing QB?

In the NFL they do this at the individual matchup level, where they can dictate on a play by play basis, and make the outcome hinge on whether your guy can stop my guy. If I can decide the outcome of a game by whether my defensive end is better than your tackle, and I have a great DE, that’s a winning strategy. Matchups are why some NFL players are worth $$$$$.

Big colleges, who have the resources to recruit and retain bigger, faster, stronger players, like to dictate the contest in terms of whose players are bigger, faster, and stronger. Of course, and why wouldn’t they? Watch Bama play anyone. It’s kind of boring, and brutal! They pound you until you give up. Georgia is playing the same way right now, by the way.

So about recruiting. Sure, we can recruit better than CPJ did, in terms of size and speed and strength. Those things are great, and he would agree. But if we’re doing that in order to compete in those terms with Clemson and UGA, we will simply be playing their game. And they’re better at it than we are.

 

[Animal02]

“We could do much worse” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement... hah. But in all seriousness I do agree that there are many, many coaches out there that I would not want at GT and above whom I would want Jeff Monken or Brian Bohannon. I enjoy watching our offense when it is firing on all (or even most) cylinders. I think describing it as beautiful when executed well is totally appropriate.

What gives, at least for me and my preference (though not a SUPER STRONG preference) to move away from the offense, is that there’s a perception that it hampers our recruiting over and above the difficulty we have recruiting already. I say “perception” because I can’t prove it does or doesn’t and there’s the possibility it’s an inaccurate statement. I do believe we can recruit better than we have been if we have a brand of football that appeals to more kids. That doesn’t mean lots of 4* and 5* kids. I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation no matter who the coach is. But maybe a few more 4* kids here and there. My concern with Jeff and Brian is all about whether I think they can recruit any better than CPJ and I haven’t heard any reason to expect they would. But I’m open to hearing why people think they would recruit better.

I think the "hampers recruiting" is simply false. The majority of offenses look for certain type players.....size & height for OL etc. What is needed for the Option is different. "wanted more" = more stars Defense has always struggled attracting people and likely always will......the 3O excuse is used by detractors in order to deny the real limitations that Tech has.

 

[g0lftime]

It's a joke they beat out Georgia and OSU...

Ohio State should be in the four. UGA had their chance and lost last weekend. The others did not have that chance. It would have been really ugly to have a team with 2 losses win the championship when they lost to a team that had beat them in their last game. If UGA had won the SEC then they would have seen BAMA again in the playoffs anyway. College FB is now run by TV and they did not want another SEC team in the mix. No interest outside the south.

 

[Animal02]

Ohio State should be in the four. UGA had their chance and lost last weekend. The others did not have that chance. It would have been really ugly to have a team with 2 losses win the championship when they lost to a team that had beat them in their last game. If UGA had won the SEC then they would have seen BAMA again in the playoffs anyway. College FB is now run by TV and they did not want another SEC team in the mix. No interest outside the south.

If they would have taken a two loss Mutt team over (2) 1 loss conference champions and left 3 of the 5 conferences out of the playoff, the collapse of the system would have been immediate.

 

[first&ten]

I love death March football

With respect to you're opinion , I think watching grass grow would be more exciting.

 

[THWG16]

This time next year we will be discussing why Wissinut or Collins was such a bad hire and why we are sitting home with no bowl invitiation for such a terrible year

This time next year we will be discussing why Wissinut or Collins was such a bad hire and why we are sitting home with no bowl invitiation for such a terrible year

You mean like we have 2 of last 4 years under PJ?

 

[slugboy]

Defensive FEI ranking
Bama - 1
Clemson - 4
OU - 94

But, no matter how bad the defense is, the max you can score is 8 points each possession. OU might get blown out, but they have a good shot because they can reasonably score every time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[UgaBlows]

It's a joke they beat out Georgia

I like to think that it was divine intervention

 

[jojatk]

That’s a great question! To answer I want to first talk about why the option is different from what most big schools run.

Winning football games is about dictating the terms of the contest to be about whatever aspect of your team is better than the other team. If you have a great run defense, you make em try to run against you, so the game hinges on the question, Is your running game better than our great run defense? If you have a great passing quarterback, you run a lot of passing plays, to make the game hinge on the question, is your secondary better than our great passing QB?

In the NFL they do this at the individual matchup level, where they can dictate on a play by play basis, and make the outcome hinge on whether your guy can stop my guy. If I can decide the outcome of a game by whether my defensive end is better than your tackle, and I have a great DE, that’s a winning strategy. Matchups are why some NFL players are worth $$$$$.

Big colleges, who have the resources to recruit and retain bigger, faster, stronger players, like to dictate the contest in terms of whose players are bigger, faster, and stronger. Of course, and why wouldn’t they? Watch Bama play anyone. It’s kind of boring, and brutal! They pound you until you give up. Georgia is playing the same way right now, by the way.

So about recruiting. Sure, we can recruit better than CPJ did, in terms of size and speed and strength. Those things are great, and he would agree. But if we’re doing that in order to compete in those terms with Clemson and UGA, we will simply be playing their game. And they’re better at it than we are.

Those are some excellent points. I appreciate the thought that went into your response. And I agree with most of what you've said. I think we can agree that doing the same thing that UGA and Clemson are doing would be largely ineffective and wouldn't make us more competitive with them (and could potentially make us less competitive). But part of my belief (and I can't prove it nor can we really prove the opposite) is that there are other types of offenses to run besides the one we have been running that could also give us some competitive edges. Also, clearly, I believe that we GT can recruit better even with all the limitations that the school itself presents. I don't know if the issues we have are related to our offensive system or the coaches or just purely a lack of resources (which our AD is working to improve). I'm sure some of it is lack of resources but again, we're hoping that situation improves and if that alone is reason to think that someone running the same system (or a version of it) would recruit better then that's a legitimate belief, though I don't think it moves the needle enough.

So when I talk about being able to compete with UGA and Clemson a little better it's not necessarily that we are going to get a bunch of the athletes they are recruiting. I do believe, however, that we could go up against some of the other teams at our level or even a tiny bit above and get a few of them if we had a bit better recruiting. I feel like one thing that could help is to run a system that has more widespread appeal to the current high school football players. But I could be wrong about that.

On the plus side, for me, is that I do like the offense we run and I do believe it gives us a slight advantage in terms of scheme. Though I also think that advantage is slowly eroding and not necessarily because our opponents are more used to it but also, as CPJ pointed out a number of times, there are some really good football players on the other side of the ball. And if our opponents are all upping their game then we need to as well.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

That’s a great question! To answer I want to first talk about why the option is different from what most big schools run.

Winning football games is about dictating the terms of the contest to be about whatever aspect of your team is better than the other team. If you have a great run defense, you make em try to run against you, so the game hinges on the question, Is your running game better than our great run defense? If you have a great passing quarterback, you run a lot of passing plays, to make the game hinge on the question, is your secondary better than our great passing QB?

In the NFL they do this at the individual matchup level, where they can dictate on a play by play basis, and make the outcome hinge on whether your guy can stop my guy. If I can decide the outcome of a game by whether my defensive end is better than your tackle, and I have a great DE, that’s a winning strategy. Matchups are why some NFL players are worth $$$$$.

Big colleges, who have the resources to recruit and retain bigger, faster, stronger players, like to dictate the contest in terms of whose players are bigger, faster, and stronger. Of course, and why wouldn’t they? Watch Bama play anyone. It’s kind of boring, and brutal! They pound you until you give up. Georgia is playing the same way right now, by the way.

So about recruiting. Sure, we can recruit better than CPJ did, in terms of size and speed and strength. Those things are great, and he would agree. But if we’re doing that in order to compete in those terms with Clemson and UGA, we will simply be playing their game. And they’re better at it than we are.

Very well said, Elwood. I wish so many others could understand that we must have both the tactical advantage (like what we had with our PJ O system) and improve our recruiting as much as possible. One without the other will continue to disappoint most of our fan base. We cannot beat teams that have decent coaching and recruit top 5 or top 10 classes every year by doing what they do and are used to defending. The CFB landscape in 2018 is NOT what it was when CPJ took the reins in 2008.

 

[jojatk]

Very well said, Elwood. I wish so many others could understand that we must have both the tactical advantage (like what we had with our PJ O system) and improve our recruiting as much as possible. One without the other will continue to disappoint most of our fan base. We cannot beat teams that have decent coaching and recruit top 5 or top 10 classes every year by doing what they do and are used to defending. The CFB landscape in 2018 is NOT what it was when CPJ took the reins in 2008.

I think we all agree that we need a tactical advantage as you've said. I am not sure the tactical advantage of CPJs style of offense can be backed up by improved recruiting. I'd love to be proven wrong since I enjoy watching that style of offense way, way more than an air raid style of offense which is another way of getting a tactical advantage (not suggesting we should move to air raid... as I said, I don't really enjoy watching that style and I don't we've seen any air raid offenses have any better defenses than we've had with CPJs style of offense).

I don't think we've hit our ceiling with respect to recruiting, though I do think expecting significantly better recruiting is unrealistic.

Thank you and Elwood for excellent discussion!

 

[chewybaka]

Ohio State should be in the four. UGA had their chance and lost last weekend. The others did not have that chance. It would have been really ugly to have a team with 2 losses win the championship when they lost to a team that had beat them in their last game. If UGA had won the SEC then they would have seen BAMA again in the playoffs anyway. College FB is now run by TV and they did not want another SEC team in the mix. No interest outside the south.

There are very very few teams that can slug it out toe to toe with bama...Oklahoma's defense is a joke.

Ga and Ohio State would annihilate their defense and keep their offense in the thirties...

 

[Skeptic]

There are very very few teams that can slug it out toe to toe with bama...Oklahoma's defense is a joke.

Ga and Ohio State would annihilate their defense and keep their offense in the thirties...

Ohio State's defense would keep Oklahoma's offense in the 30s? Which quarter?